rec.autos.simulators

Currently, I have a 450 AMD with 64 megs and I'm running it in software mode.
In the***pit view, I'm getting about 8fps, and in the chase view 11fps.
Obviously, I'm going to have to bite the bullet and get a graphics card[1]. So
the question is, what should I get?

I need to check here because the game is now three years old, and the graphics
card scene has moved on a bit in that time! The game supports Rendition and 3dfx,
but I notice there is a patch for D3D (whatever that is..)

I don't want to spend a huge amount of money. 100 or so. Less if possible.
Something that is supported by GP3 as well. I'm not looking to end up with a
state-of-the-art megacard. Just something that will give me 20-30 fps at
800x600 or better. Suggestions?

Bear in mind I know very little about graphics cards. I assume these days they
are all 2D/3D combined, so I can throw away my current 2D card? I've heard
good things about the TNT2 - does that work will with GPL and GP3?

Thanks in advance.

Huw

[1] Hey it's an old machine, and Age of Empires and Rollercoaster Tycoon don't
need a 3D card, OK? :-)

Basically you'll need to get hold of a card that supports 3dfx. You'll see
from the documentation that came with GPL that there's a very limited set of
cards. At it's most basic you'll need a Voodoo2 card. I think. I have a
Voodoo 3500 TV and it's oarsome.

Be aware, most salesman at computer shops will say "yes this is 3dfx
compatible" but unless you see the 3dfx compatible logo on the side don't
buy it.

In the meantime, you may want to look into 3dfx emulators which are said to
be able to pretend to be a 3dfx card (Glide I think is the term). They
were'nt available for my Matrox G400 so now I've got two cards!

Ric

Huw,

A few points:

1) What graphics card do you have at present?  It may well offer you some
improvement when used in conjunction with the D3D patch you mention

2) The D3D patch allows GPL to make use of the 3D accelerated functions on
cards that support the D3D API.

<simplified mode>

There are a  number of different "languages" that programs can use to "talk"
to 3D cards - and most graphics cards understand at least one of these.  The
most used include D3D, OpenGL and Glide (3dfx)

Out-of-the-box, GPL only "talks" Glide and Rendition.  That means that only
a card with 3dfx or rendition chips on it will "understand" the 3d graphics.

The most popular two graphics "languages" are now OpenGl and D3D.  The
unsupported OpenGL and D3D patches released for GPL allow it to speak these
"languages", thus allowing accelerated 3D graphics on most graphics cards.

Because Glide and the Rendition language were closely linked with particular
hardware - they generally offered better performance (fps) on the same
hardware than the same game running under D3D or Glide, which brings us on
to 3)

3) An AMD K6-450 is not exactly cutting edge - and GPL can be very
demanding.  You will probably be best trying to find a card based on a 3dfx
chipset (a Voodoo card), as this will help maximise framerate.

If you want to keep your current card, try and find a "Voodoo 2" card.  This
is a standalone 3D card that fits in a full length PCI slot and works in
conjunction with your current card.  You'll only be able to get them
second-hand, and it should cost you somewhere around 25.

You could also replace your current card with a Voodoo 3, 4 or 5.  These
offer increasing performance and resolution, with the voodoo5 in particular
offering excellent image quality thanks to its Full-Screen-Anti-Aliasing
features (FSAA) that smooth out the "jaggy" lines where one colour meets
another on the computer screen.  These cards all come in PCI or AGP formats.
Again , due to the demsise of 3dfx, you'll probably have to look for these
second-hand.

4) All the above advice in 3) is relevant only for GPL.  3dfx cards are now
a technology dead-end, and will get no more support.  There are already
games being released that do not - and will not - run on Voodoo 2 and Voodoo
3 cards.  However - your AMD 450 is not exactly cutting edge either - and
spending a lot of money on a graphics card for this machine is not
particularly sensible - IMHO.  Another downside of the Voodoo 2/3 cards is
that they will not run some of the latest community-developed add-on tracks
as well as other cards - but again - your processor will probably be as much
of a limit here.

5) If you do want a new graphics card that you can later transfer to a more
powerful machine, for your budget consider the GeForce2 MX range of cards.
These will work with the D3D patch on GPL, but will not offer as good a
framerate as a Voodoo card.
You'll be able to buy these new for less than 100.

Hope this helps......

Ian

There is a D3D patch for GPL on Papyrus website, which makes GPL work with
cards like nVidia GeForce / GeForce 2 / GeForce 3, and ATI Radeon cards, but
the D3D patch is a little slower than running GPL on a Voodoo (3dfx) card,
and with your CPU being a little out-of-date you may well need that extra
speed.  If you had a P3-1000, a P4 or an Athlon-1000, or something of that
speed, and you were running with the D3D patch, then the performance of the
D3D patch wouldn't matter, because GPL would easily max-out at 36 fps, even
with a full field.  In that case it would be fine to buy something like a
GF2 GTS/Pro or a Radeon, but since your CPU is only 450 MHz, I think a
Voodoo card would be better for GPL.

<stuff snipped>

The original poster has an AMD 450 - which has considerably less FPU power
than a P2 450 - more akin to a P2 300 to 250.

I can testify that my K6-III 400 ran GPL *much* better on a Voodoo2 under
Glide than a TNT2 with the D3D patch - especially in the***pit view at
race starts.

Ian

Incidently, does anybody have any recomendations for online computer hardware
stuff in the UK other than Watford? (Nothing against WE, I've always found them
reliable.)

Huw

<snip>

Without hesitation, first choice is DABS http://www.dabs.com/
mainly because their MD is regularly present on uk.comp.vendors
answering questions/comments etc.

--
Laurence Wilmer

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.256 / Virus Database: 129 - Release Date: 31/05/01

You say "no measurable decrease in frame rates", I presume you mean the game
was still running 36 fps most of the time.  This is not a valid test of
performance.  To see if GPL runs faster on a Voodoo card you'd have to run
GPL under demanding conditions, like full-grid (19 opponents) race starts
with the detail slider bar on full form***pit view.  Under these
conditions I used to get 27 fps on my V3, I now get 24 fps on the GF2.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the GF2, it's a fantastic card.
It's the card I run GPL with, and I'm delighted with it overall.  It's just
that the D3D renderer for GPL didn't get the testing and optimizing that the
Glide renderer had, afterall the D3D renderer was written in Grant Reeve's
spare time.

It's true the V3/V5 are dead-end cards, but so is a TNT2, GeForce 1 or GF2
MX because of it's performance.  If you were looking for a quick fix to give
a real improvement to GPL (vs software renderer) for very little money, I
still say a V3 is unbeatable.

<snip>

[miles OT] My BBC Model B+ has a Watford 1770 dual floppy drive from
Watford. Fif*** years old, weighs about as much as a BRM and has
never, EVER broken down. That's why I still buy stuff from WE.

[less OT] and of course the BBC Micro is where it all began - Revs!

--
David. (GPLRank handicap -5.92; Monsters of GPLRank h/cap +272.44)
The GPL Scrapyard: http://www.racesimcentral.net/
"After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll,
really" - Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh.

I think you're good to go with the V3, given your specs.
But I would suggest this if your motherboard supports it:
Replacing your K6-2 with a K6-2+ chip, that features 128kb of on chip cache.

substantial performance increase in GPL with a Voodoo3 2000.

The K6-2 450 (which will clock to 550 without trouble) can be had in the
states for 35.00 from tigerdirect.com.  If you can get one cheaply it's well
worth it.

Don Burnette

Gary