rec.autos.simulators

I bought GPL yesterday and installed it, filled with trepidation because
the demos didn't work at all for me.  My worst fears were confirmed.   It
doesn't work.   Well,  let me put it this way:  it doesn't USUALLY work.
Let me explain. First here are my system specs:
P166
128mb RAM
Monster 1
ACM Game Card
Thrustmaster T1
AWE64 Value
Win98

I installed GPL. It came up fine.  I calibrated my wheel (Direct Input was
the default for me).  I turned down some detail (all mirror detail,
clouds, crowds, Specular lighting, Dynamic lighting) and went to Training
at Spa.   I hit Alt-F and saw that my frames at Spa varied from 12 to 20
depending on my driving and where I was on the track.  Despite that, it
seemed smooth and I was liking it immensely.  I drove for about an hour,
trying different tracks, trying a race (frames dropped significantly here)
etc and then shut down to do other things.   I entered and reentered the
game several times and drove for a while. Everything seemed cool and I was
ecstatic.  

Then I had the game crash during a replay and I had to reboot.  When I
came back into GPL my frames were between 2 and 4 and I couldn't drive the
car at all.  Curiously, when I would go into the grass or onto the side of
the track my FR would jump to 12-17.  When I would reenter the track, all
be messed up again.  Another strange thing was that, even though my FR was
abysmal while driving, my replays would be silky smooth as well as any of
the other Saved Replays that came with the game.  That perplexed me.  I
turned the sounds down to 3, I turned more detail off but nothing would
affect it.   When the game was paused the FR would read 30fps but as soon
as I started driving the FR dove for the ba***t again.  

Then, I recalibrated my wheel in Generic mode and my frame rate jumped
back to where it was when I installed.  Yea! I though.  Not.   When I
reentered the game again,  the frame rate was 2-3 again.

I thought it might be my controller.  I unplugged it and tried a generic
joystick.  Same problem.   I thought it might be my game card.  I ripped
it out, and plugged my wheel into my sound card.  Same problem.  I thought
it might be joysticks in general, so I removed them all and reconfigured
to use the keyboard.  Same problem.

It seems to be some sort of internal-to-the-sim clock timing problem but I
have no answers as to how to fix it.

At this point, about every 15-20th time I go into the game, I can run it
with acceptable frame rate (yes, I have been patient...) but it does not
seem to be based on any action on my part and I am giving up.  I don't
think I have anticipated the release of any sim more than this one and not
being able to run has gotten me very, very bummed out.  Please help!!!

Jeff

Just a wild guess, but have you tried the latest drivers for your
Monster video card?  Also, you might try removing the sound card
temporarily to see if that makes any difference.  Also, if you are using
a nonstandard mouse driver, try de-installing the driver temporarily to
see if that helps.  Before you do anything, ensure you have at least
256k of L2 cache.

Two other things to try, if you are willing to spend some money on
hardware that will make GPL run better, assuming you are able to get it
to work on your machine:

1. A faster CPU.  P-233's and K6-233's are quite inexpensive these days,
and these should make a noticeable improvement in GPL's frame rate over
your P-166.  It's also conceivable that the P-166 is running just slow
enough that some kind of thrashing is getting started, and a faster CPU
might cure this.

2. An 8 mb Hercules Thriller.  The Rendition architecture is much more
efficent in terms of CPU utilization than the Voodoo, so a Thriller will
offload the CPU and let it concentrate more on the physics.  If, by
chance, some kind of thrashing is going on, the Thriller might help
eliminate it.

Check my GP Hardware FAQ for more info on hardware:

  http://www.racesimcentral.net/~alison/gpl/

Alison

On Thu, 01 Oct 1998 12:34:15 GMT, Jeffrey Hunsberger

- Eric

Perhaps I overlooked it but I saw no mention that you ever tried RE-installing
the game itself.  Also DirectX 6 plays a crucial part and that may need
re-installing.

If it worked once then you know it's not a hardware problem.

: Just a wild guess, but have you tried the latest drivers for your
: Monster video card?  Also, you might try removing the sound card
: temporarily to see if that makes any difference.  Also, if you are using
: a nonstandard mouse driver, try de-installing the driver temporarily to
: see if that helps.  Before you do anything, ensure you have at least
: 256k of L2 cache.

Thanks for the help.  I got the latest Monster drivers in anticipation of
this release.  As far as the sound card goes: if I run it without the
soundcard and it still does it, where does it leave me?  Every other game
I own works perfectly with it.  The mouse driver is standard.  I believe I
do have the required amount of L2 cache.  

I will try as others suggested and reinstall but I don't think it will
help.  It really seems to be some sort of "clock crash" internal to the
game.  Sometimes it gets setup correctly, sometimes not...

: Two other things to try, if you are willing to spend some money on
: hardware that will make GPL run better, assuming you are able to get it
: to work on your machine:

I plan on buying a new computer sometime soon.  A G6-450 from Gateway.
That should solve the problems, but i want to race until that day comes!
It is such a tease to be able to run it one minute and not the next.

: 2. An 8 mb Hercules Thriller.  The Rendition architecture is much more
: efficent in terms of CPU utilization than the Voodoo, so a Thriller will
: offload the CPU and let it concentrate more on the physics.  If, by
: chance, some kind of thrashing is going on, the Thriller might help
: eliminate it.

Do these cards do 2d as well?

Thanks again,

Jeff

Alison

Remove the spam blocker NOSPAM to email me.
http://www.nh,ultranet.com/~alison

GPL has no control over where its different components are placed in
physical memory.  If anything important (like the compiled physics code, or
DirectSound's software mixing code, or sound samples, or the AI code, or
... etc.) happen to be placed above the first 64mb of physical memory,
access to this information by the processor will be extremely slow.  This
explains why sometimes the game runs OK (most of the important stuff
happened to be placed in the first 64mb), and why sometimes it basically
doesn't run at all (most of the important stuff happened to be placed above
the first 64mb).  Once you've reduced the amount of memory in your computer
so that it can all be cached, you will have much more consistent
performance.

Randy

: GPL has no control over where its different components are placed in
: physical memory.  If anything important (like the compiled physics code, or
: DirectSound's software mixing code, or sound samples, or the AI code, or
: ... etc.) happen to be placed above the first 64mb of physical memory,
: access to this information by the processor will be extremely slow.  This
: explains why sometimes the game runs OK (most of the important stuff
: happened to be placed in the first 64mb), and why sometimes it basically
: doesn't run at all (most of the important stuff happened to be placed above
: the first 64mb).  Once you've reduced the amount of memory in your computer
: so that it can all be cached, you will have much more consistent
: performance.

: Randy

Randy,

Thanks for taking the time to answer my post.  I will try this out when I
get home.  That sounds like the answer I needed.  I had no idea there was
a cache limitation on the MB.  I will rip that RAM out right away and
give it a shot.

Thanks a million,

Jeff

- Eric

It isnt strange :o)
It will happen to all. The reason why it is smooth is because most of
the frames (like 90%) are taken away by the physics engine, not the
graphics. You'll find that you can run it in 512x384 and 800x600 with
little frame difference. But put 5 cars on the track and boom.
The reason the replays are faster is because all the com[puter is
doing is reading where the cars are, and what there doing. It doesnt
have to calculate the physics of what effect the fly stuck on your
right front wheel will do to you at 180mph. So bascially the replay
feature doesnt use the main physics engine, which is the FR sucker.
Happy ta help :)
Juju

I know you said it failed without the soundcard; however, there is
a SB AWE64 patch for Win95/98.  Check the Creative Labs site:

 http://www.soundblaster.com/asp-scripts/download.asp?file=/creative/d...

Wow!  They put a new driver up today -- Oct 1st.

Jason.

I took out the 64mb and now has a very steady and consistent frame rate.  I
get between 12-22 frames depending on traffic or how many trees I am
currently flattening.  I was even getting the same FR's with 5 other cars on
the track which was great.  I could watch them drive into distance while I
spun...  ;-)

Thanks A LOT for your help.  I can now enjoy this sim!

NOW I have another problem however.  After removing the 64mbRAM, the Replays
crash and crash often, dumping me back to the desktop.  It can be on long or
short replays, or replays just playing in the little window after you exit
the driving screen.  It even crashes now during the saved replays that come
with the game, which it didn't do last night.  It doesn't crash EVERY time
but it crashes about 80% of the time.

I reinstalled the game in case something got screwed up with the previous
problem but it still happens.  I rebooted a couple of times in case
something was*** around in memory but no dice.  Any help would be
appreciated.

Thanks,

Jeff

- Eric

Thanks,

Jeff

On Thu, 01 Oct 1998 12:34:15 GMT, Jeffrey Hunsberger

Steve Blankenship