David G Fisher
> > How does that make you feel? :-)
> > BTW, we Americans celebrated in the streets after the bombing of Japan,
> and
> > it's surrender. That's kind of sickening.
> > David G Fisher
> What were they celebrating? The killing, maiming, destroying of
Japanese?
> No I think the celebrations were there for two things...a) We won and in
> winning validated our system/lives etc. B) <note the capitol letter, cuz
> this is the more important reason> Our husbands, our sons, our Fathers,
our
> friends our Uncles, our neighbors, our cousins our daughters our sisters
> could now come home. That, in my opinion, was the basis for much of the
> celebration. Not that we had triumphed over evil, or tyrants, or any
> socio-economic reason...Our Families were going to be whole again.
> Unfortunately..the sick thing is...many of those families were not ever
> whole again.
> dave henrie
Jan.
=---
"Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn.
America is a land of cowboys drinking ***corporate beer, but
thankfully most of us have no interest in messing with these gosh dang
computer thingamajigs.
In response to Iksteh, the reason F1 sales in the US suck is because
modern F1 is a pile of crap. I love 1950-1990ish F1 to death, and am
salivating over the thought of GPL 72, but you can't tell me drag
racing between 30mph corners and chicanes is a great motorsport. CART
has F1 beat in nearly every conceivable way, from the layout of the
tracks to the on-track competition (ok, so we're lacking in marketing,
2 out 3 isn't bad =). If you want to export something useful to the
US, give us some rally TV coverage and some real rally sims (I'm
talking Rally Masters handling with Mobil 1 tracks and damage realism
here). I live in Pittsburgh, so I could trade you some, uh, steel or
something for it. We proud and self-sustaining Americans import most
of it nowadays anyway.
--Jason (Guinness anyone?)
> > Deer Hunter outsells everything else in the USA and it doesn't
> > mean anything? ROTFLMAO.
> > Looking from the outside in, it implies the majority of Americans
> > are a bunch of rednecks who love killing innocent creatures. And
> > your comment about French sales just about clinches it...America
> > is not the be-all, end-all of the world - just the loudest part. While
> > you dismiss the rest of the world as unimportant, you make it obvious
> > just how inwardly focused you are.
> > Did it ever occur to you that F1 game sales shouldn't do as well in
> > the USA as in European countries (given the origins of F1).
> > iksteh
> > > well, it's great to see the game did well in France!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL
> I'll
> > > keep that in mind if I ever go there ... Deer Hunter outsold everything
> here
> > > in the states, that doesn't mean anything ...
Quality post, I like :)
Rafe Mc
> Substitute "knowing" for "after" and you might get closer to the reason why
> people celebrated. 1945 was not exactly the information age. Even if the
> brutal details made it to the papers, I'm sure most people didn't read past
> "War Over" initially.
--
Fester
> Unfortunately..the sick thing is...many of those families were not ever
> whole again.
> dave henrie
--
Fester
> I've agreed with almost everything you've said in this thread.
> How does that make you feel? :-)
Reminds me of the Palestinian celebrations after the WTC bombings.
However I think Jan has a firm grip on our mindset at the time. Doesn't
justify it totally, mind you, but helps to explain it I guess.
--
Fester
> As a fellow American, I have to agree that we're really a friendly
> nation (after we train terrorists to kill your leaders and install
> military dictatorships in place of your rightfully elected
> governments) and will offer a helping hand to those in need (if you
> have enough oil or ***). We're also an extremely well-informed
> people (more TV's than bathrooms, according to surveys) with a real
> sense of national pride and unity (if you're not Asian, Black,
> Hispanic, or Arabic). Our government sets the global standard (in
> terms of scandals and corruption), being run by intelligent (Bush),
> compassionate (Ashcroft), and peaceful (Cheney) men who will risk life
> and limb (hiding in underground bunkers) to protect truth (via
> domestic and foreign covert operations), justice (unless you're ruling
> on an election which you have direct personal and financial ties to),
> and freedom (unless explicity taken away by the Patriot act). It's
> bad enough we feel the need to police the world, but do we have to put
> the LAPD in charge of it?
--
Fester
Stephen
> > Substitute "knowing" for "after" and you might get closer to the reason
why
> > people celebrated. 1945 was not exactly the information age. Even if the
> > brutal details made it to the papers, I'm sure most people didn't read
past
> > "War Over" initially.
> Although I wholeheartedly agree with David's sentiments, I believe you
> are more correct on what was happening in the people's minds at the
> time. :-(
> --
> Fester
-John
> How does that make you feel? :-)
> BTW, we Americans celebrated in the streets after the bombing of Japan,
and
> it's surrender. That's kind of sickening.
> David G Fisher
> > > Do you know what the difference is between us bombing them and them
> coming
> > > after us is? Since you can't figure it out on your own, the Afghan
gov't
> was
> > > given an option to stop it all, just like the Japanese were. We told
the
> > > Afghan gov't to turn over the guy or face the consequences, right?
Just
> like
> > > we did with Japan. The Afghan gov't doesnt give two shits about their
> people
> > > or they would turn him over, just like the Japanese gov't didn't give
> two
> > > shits about their people when we had to drop not one but TWO atomic
> bombs on
> > > them before they would surrender. They saw the damage of the first,
were
> > > given the opportunity to surrender and didn't, and then were bombed
> again.
> > > An unannounced attack vs. a turn him over or else approach is vastly
> > > different. Wake up and smell the coffee. The last time I checked, we
> werent
> > > bombing the Japanese before they attacked Pearl Harbor and we were
> staying
> > > out of the war, and the last time I checked, we were not bombing where
> we
> > > are now until we were attacked, and even then we were not until after
we
> > > told them to let go of Osama or face the consequences. If you can't
see
> the
> > > difference, then that's a shame.
> > I'm getting rather bored of all this. Before I go, we're gonna play a
> > game of Let's Make a Deal. Let's see what's behind the 3 doors...
> > Door #1 - Bombing & killing innocent civilians is always OK. -- If you
> > choose this door, clam up about NYC.
> > Door #2 - Bombing & killing innocent civilians is always wrong -- Have
> > the backbone to stand up & be counted as you condemn ALL who engage in
> > such activities. Including your own government.
> > Door #3 - Sometimes it's OK, sometimes it isn't. As in "It's OK for us
> > to do it, but not anyone else". Relegate yourself to the heap where the
> > hypocrites & those who are irrelevant stay.
> > Which door you want? I'll take door #2 myself.
> > We can settle this on the track someday. :-) Cheers.
> > --
> > Fester
How?
Ryan
> Considering that that bombing most likely save my Grandfather's life, I
> would have too.
--
Fester
-John
> > Considering that that bombing most likely save my Grandfather's life,
I
> > would have too.
> And I am glad for your grandfather's sake. But I am deeply saddened for
> all the other grandfathers who lost their lives at our hands in those
> attacks. They were not guilty parties who deserved retribution from
> us. Those civilians who lost their lives in Japan did nothing to us.
> Their government/military did, although that's another subject entirely.
> --
> Fester
> > Realize something here.
> > WWII is OVER. It is DONE. Very few people left in the USA today had
> > ANYTHING to do with it, let alone were alive at the time. It's
closing in
> > on 60 YEARS ago. It makes a rather poor comparison, in my opinion. The
NY
> > attack wasn't even truly prompted, unless you subscribe to OBL's line of
> > thinking. The nuclear attacks weren't unprovoked; Pearl Harbor and a
little
> > thing called three years of WWII helped get that. Something tells me
from
> > the raw statistics of those who actually use computers and play video
> > games - hence get into stuff like RAS - that there's an extremely small
> > number of people on this NG who were even alive at the time. Even
assuming
> > they were just old enough to be in the military, 18, in 1945, that puts
them
> > at a birth year of 1927. That makes anyone that age 74 today.
> So since it was a long time ago, that makes everything OK?
You really think that if they'd have just fought a ground war, it'd have
never gotten onto the home turf either way? If there hadn't have been the
nukes, it'd have been a ground war; and one side would eventually drive the
other back to their homeland and continue the fighting there. So, with the
ground war, you throw in a bunch of military casualties on both sides while
you're at it, and one side - it could've been us, even - still ends up with
some areas of wasteland, massive civillian casualties, and everything that
goes along with it.
And then, if you use your we-picked-this-fight logic...well, what are we
going to do then, not finish it?
Milhouse
