rec.autos.simulators

Simmers have got it good right now....

<phillipmalph..

Simmers have got it good right now....

by <phillipmalph.. » Tue, 04 Dec 2001 06:28:46

well, it's great to see the game did well in France!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL I'll
keep that in mind if I ever go there ... Deer Hunter outsold everything here
in the states, that doesn't mean anything ...








> > > > It wasn't too long ago when the only sim worth playing was GPL.  The
> > rest
> > > > used to be all very poor from a physics point of view.  Also I think
> GPL
> > > > Nascar 4

> > > No thanks - I know it's an old argument - but I cant stand racing
ovals.

> > That's fine, that's your opinion but that has nothing to do with the
> quality
> > of a sim and how good every simmer has it because of that game. You are
> > letting personal preference get in the way. It is an excellent sim and
> those
> > ovals you can't stand financed GPL and GPL 72, if that is a reality ...

> Cigarette money finances Formula One. Doesnt mean I have to like it.

> Incidentaly -it's worth noting that Sierra France claim that GPL was not,
> infact, the failure we are lead to believe it was

> DOug

John Pancoas

Simmers have got it good right now....

by John Pancoas » Tue, 04 Dec 2001 06:52:37

  Well, never driven on them, but been attending races at almost all of them
since 1983, and am a season ticket holder at Bristol, fwiw.   TV has nothing
to do with my opinion of them <G>  And Lowes is one I think was done poorly,
as well as Bristol.  Rockingham isn't bad.

  The rest of your comments are obviously because you know nothing about me,
where and who I race N4 with, and have in the past, nor how long I've been
doing it.
  If you did, you wouldn't have bothered posting such.

  No big deal, it's just my opinion of N4.

-John




> >   Most of the tracks are much, much narrower in the sim than in
actuality,
> > especially corner exits.

> Drive on some of them before you make this comment. I have driven around
> North Carolina, Lowes, and Bristol in real life. I think Papy actually got
> this part of their information correct. They look a TON wider on TV and
that
> may be the thing you are basing this on, if so, trust me, they are pretty
> darn accurate. Coming out of T4 at NC (aka Rockingham) looks like it might
> be a little wider than a standard 2 lane road in real life.

> >Re physics........well, when it feels like you're
> > driving a hovercraft on ice.............a bit fishy IMO.

> Thats also fairly real, didn't you see Ryan Newman and Bobby Labonte turn
> themselves around all alone at C***te, err Lowes? And Mikey Waltrip
also
> did a loop-d-loop all by himself at the Spring Dover race if I recall
> correctly. They are called 'slicks' for a reason, and they have to be at
the
> right temperature to grip correctly, also like in real life. Besides, I
> think a hovercraft on ice would move about like a hovercraft on grass or
> asphalt for that matter.

> >   Of course, that can be "fixed" via setup/controller tweaks.  Heat may
or
> > may not have excess grip levels, but N4 then has to weak of them IMO.

> You got that right, decent setup helps a ton. Knowing the proper line
around
> a place also helps a lot.

> >   And of course, then there's the "X number of cars get airborne,
flipping
> > end over end, when one is hit at a 10-20 mph" feature..<G>

> We have had a ton of big wrecks in our league this season (training
division
> anyway) and only the hardest, awkward angle hits have resulted in "flying
> cars". Of course we don't run the SS's every time so that may be your only
> experience.

> > -John

Simon Brow

Simmers have got it good right now....

by Simon Brow » Tue, 04 Dec 2001 07:22:06

Well, if you don't like trucks or oval racing, then fair enough you're
probably not going to like MBTR and N4.  I suppose someone who doesn't like
vintage cars or F1 wouldn't like GPL either.  They are high quality sims
though in my opinion.

Actually, come to think of it, I don't like trucks either, but I can't see
that it can make a great deal of difference what shape the thing you're
driving is on the replays.

GP500 was awesome, and yes it is more realistic than Superbike 2001.

As for F1 2001, I don't think we're gonna agree here :)  I know some of the
tracks are bad, but I just learn the tracks as they are in the game and
forget that it's supposed to be modelling F1.  To be honest, the fact that
it's an F1 game is irrelevant for me, it's just a game with some cars and
some tracks, and the bottom line for me is that it's fantastic to play.

As for the physics, since me saying they're great and you saying they're
awful doesn't constitute much of a debate, maybe we should just agree to
disagree :)




> > It wasn't too long ago when the only sim worth playing was GPL.  The
rest
> > used to be all very poor from a physics point of view.  Also I think GPL
> has
> > genuinely helped to push up the quality of physics coding in all other
> sims.

> > I don't own every sim ever made, so apologies if I'm missing the odd
great
> > sim here, but I think there are now five sims that are geuinely worth
> > dedicating time to today.

> You do?

> > Nascar 4

> No thanks - I know it's an old argument - but I cant stand racing ovals.

> > F1 2001 (patched) -
> >Despite a few flaws - the odd corner a bit wrong

> The games a f**king mess. Tracks are chronically innacurate and physics at
> best just the sim side of arcade.

> > Mercedes Benz Truck Racing - Another high quality product.  Physics,
> > graphics, sound all without fault.  Strange menu system :)  Top sliding
> fun
> > and plenty of tracks you won't find in other games.

> Agreed - but they're trucks - and that sucks.

> > Superbike 2001 - Ok, so the physics maybe isn't quite as good as the
other
> > sims in this list, but there are very few bike sims made, and in my
> opinion,
> > this is the best (just overtaking gp500).  Great tracks, graphics and
> sound.
> > Top fun for bike nuts.

> GP500 was the one and only Bike sim - ruined by ***online code.

> > Grand Prix Legends - Still the best, and with new tracks and cars, and
the
> > new d3d patch, it looks better than ever.  The best online play and the
> cars
> > are always a thrill to drive.  Even today I play it way more than
anything
> > else, including playing in a fantastic online league.

> Grand Prix Legends is the only sim I still play.  Frankly - Sim Racers
have
> it rather poor imo.

> Doug

Jim Seamu

Simmers have got it good right now....

by Jim Seamu » Tue, 04 Dec 2001 07:23:04

Keep an eye on Rally Trophy. I don't think it deserves to be on this list
yet, but it seems pretty likely that a patch will be out soon to fix the
most irritating bugs/features... with a little luck this will then let RT
reach a higher level of "sim-ness".

RTRank support from the guys that do GPLRank will certainly help the
long-term replayability as well...
http://gplrank.schuerkamp.de/rt_index.html

Interesting post Simon, nice one.


JJ Srickli

Simmers have got it good right now....

by JJ Srickli » Tue, 04 Dec 2001 09:08:08

Fans  would work better, the colder the air, density increases. But I love
people trying to baffle
everyone with bullshit. Just admit your wrong about the hoovercraft on ice
statement and quite
trying to BS your way out of it. Be a man. :)


> Fans would be more efficient in cold dense air actually.



> >   Clearly the friction co-eficient of ice compared to water is more
slick
> so
> > the air molecules have less to grip which provides less lift and and
less
> > turning ability.  Then too the lower temperatures associated with ice
> means
> > the fans won't work as efficiently, will be prone to icing, and will be
a
> > pain to maintain.
> >   You :) asked!
> > dave henrie


> > >   Lol, good point :)

> > > -John



> > > > Please tell us why a hovercraft on ice would feel any different to
one
> > on
> > > > any other surface...

> > > > Jan. ;-)
> > > > =---
> > > > "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn.

> > > > "John Pancoast" wrote...
> > > > > <snip> well, when it feels like you're driving a hovercraft
> > > > > on ice.............

JJ Srickli

Simmers have got it good right now....

by JJ Srickli » Tue, 04 Dec 2001 09:08:08

Fans  would work better, the colder the air, density increases. But I love
people trying to baffle
everyone with bullshit. Just admit your wrong about the hoovercraft on ice
statement and quite
trying to BS your way out of it. Be a man. :)


> Fans would be more efficient in cold dense air actually.



> >   Clearly the friction co-eficient of ice compared to water is more
slick
> so
> > the air molecules have less to grip which provides less lift and and
less
> > turning ability.  Then too the lower temperatures associated with ice
> means
> > the fans won't work as efficiently, will be prone to icing, and will be
a
> > pain to maintain.
> >   You :) asked!
> > dave henrie


> > >   Lol, good point :)

> > > -John



> > > > Please tell us why a hovercraft on ice would feel any different to
one
> > on
> > > > any other surface...

> > > > Jan. ;-)
> > > > =---
> > > > "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn.

> > > > "John Pancoast" wrote...
> > > > > <snip> well, when it feels like you're driving a hovercraft
> > > > > on ice.............

JJ Srickli

Simmers have got it good right now....

by JJ Srickli » Tue, 04 Dec 2001 09:12:43

Damn, I thought I was the only one who just never caught the GPL bug.
ikste

Simmers have got it good right now....

by ikste » Tue, 04 Dec 2001 09:38:42

Deer Hunter outsells everything else in the USA and it doesn't
mean anything?  ROTFLMAO.

Looking from the outside in, it implies the majority of Americans
are a bunch of rednecks who love killing innocent creatures.  And
your comment about French sales just about clinches it...America
is not the be-all, end-all of the world - just the loudest part.  While
you dismiss the rest of the world as unimportant, you make it obvious
just how inwardly focused you are.

Did it ever occur to you that F1 game sales shouldn't do as well in
the USA as in European countries (given the origins of F1).

iksteh


John Pancoas

Simmers have got it good right now....

by John Pancoas » Tue, 04 Dec 2001 09:39:34

  Er, it was me who made the hovercraft on ice statement<G>

-John


> Fans  would work better, the colder the air, density increases. But I love
> people trying to baffle
> everyone with bullshit. Just admit your wrong about the hoovercraft on ice
> statement and quite
> trying to BS your way out of it. Be a man. :)



> > Fans would be more efficient in cold dense air actually.



> > >   Clearly the friction co-eficient of ice compared to water is more
> slick
> > so
> > > the air molecules have less to grip which provides less lift and and
> less
> > > turning ability.  Then too the lower temperatures associated with ice
> > means
> > > the fans won't work as efficiently, will be prone to icing, and will
be
> a
> > > pain to maintain.
> > >   You :) asked!
> > > dave henrie


> > > >   Lol, good point :)

> > > > -John


message

> > > > > Please tell us why a hovercraft on ice would feel any different to
> one
> > > on
> > > > > any other surface...

> > > > > Jan. ;-)
> > > > > =---
> > > > > "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn.

> > > > > "John Pancoast" wrote...
> > > > > > <snip> well, when it feels like you're driving a hovercraft
> > > > > > on ice.............

Dave Henr

Simmers have got it good right now....

by Dave Henr » Tue, 04 Dec 2001 09:47:42

  nono..the thicker cold air would cause the individual fan blades to fight
more drag.(hey at least you recognize bs when you see it.)  :)
dave henrie

> Fans  would work better, the colder the air, density increases. But I love
> people trying to baffle
> everyone with bullshit. Just admit your wrong about the hoovercraft on ice
> statement and quite
> trying to BS your way out of it. Be a man. :)



> > Fans would be more efficient in cold dense air actually.



> > >   Clearly the friction co-eficient of ice compared to water is more
> slick
> > so
> > > the air molecules have less to grip which provides less lift and and
> less
> > > turning ability.  Then too the lower temperatures associated with ice
> > means
> > > the fans won't work as efficiently, will be prone to icing, and will
be
> a
> > > pain to maintain.
> > >   You :) asked!
> > > dave henrie


> > > >   Lol, good point :)

> > > > -John


message

> > > > > Please tell us why a hovercraft on ice would feel any different to
> one
> > > on
> > > > > any other surface...

> > > > > Jan. ;-)
> > > > > =---
> > > > > "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn.

> > > > > "John Pancoast" wrote...
> > > > > > <snip> well, when it feels like you're driving a hovercraft
> > > > > > on ice.............

Alex Kihuran

Simmers have got it good right now....

by Alex Kihuran » Tue, 04 Dec 2001 10:44:05

That was a pretty low blow, and I think it's sad that people can hate a
place so much they've never been to...

Thanks,
Alex

> Deer Hunter outsells everything else in the USA and it doesn't
> mean anything?  ROTFLMAO.

> Looking from the outside in, it implies the majority of Americans
> are a bunch of rednecks who love killing innocent creatures.  And
> your comment about French sales just about clinches it...America
> is not the be-all, end-all of the world - just the loudest part.  While
> you dismiss the rest of the world as unimportant, you make it obvious
> just how inwardly focused you are.

> Did it ever occur to you that F1 game sales shouldn't do as well in
> the USA as in European countries (given the origins of F1).

> iksteh



> > well, it's great to see the game did well in France!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL
> I'll
> > keep that in mind if I ever go there ... Deer Hunter outsold everything
> here
> > in the states, that doesn't mean anything ...

<phillipmalph..

Simmers have got it good right now....

by <phillipmalph.. » Tue, 04 Dec 2001 10:56:39

Ok, let me lower my iq for a post. Keep up with the stinking thread, sales
makes no difference in the quality of a game, that's why it doesn't matter
about the sales of Deer Hunter in this thread, nor does it matter what the
popular opinion is about hunting in general in real life IN THIS THREAD.
There are 5 Deer Hunter titles and a host of others in the genre. Does that
mean they are good? Hell no! Does it mean there are more titles though and
that the company can do different titles and genres because of those sales?
Hell yes! The whole point of my initial response was not to infuriate
foreigners as YOU might think, it was to show that personal preference has
nothing to do with the quality of a game, whatever that game is, and
following later, that those titles that bring home the bacon aren't
necessarily great games but should be respected. This world has many
different peoples and tastes and a game should not be counted as not good
for a simmer because they don't like racing ovals or that they don't like
the concept of hunting. I am a big fan of GPL and what it accomplished. It's
still fun to drive. But, driving an old car around a bunch of tracks that
either don't exist or have been changed a lot since, doesn't keep my
attention long and doesn't simulate anything but a fantasy world since most
of us weren't alive during that period. Sorry. On the other hand, it did
allow for Papyrus to get a rudementary version of the next physics engine
out the door for the next NASCAR title (without tire model and the pit
experience) and I respect that immensely. The fact that the plans for
NASCAR3's physics being the same or near same model as GPL's being scrapped
and delayed until Nascar4, was a direct result of that game's financial
failure, whether France did well or not. Does that mean the game is bad?
Nope. Does that mean I quit driving the game? Maybe in stints but I do fire
it up every once in a while. Does that mean that I don't respect the game
and what it brings to the table? No. Does that mean that the simmer does not
have it well because of personal preference about racing ovals? No, and
that's the whole point. Ok, recharging iq level ...

Regards, Phillip


> Deer Hunter outsells everything else in the USA and it doesn't
> mean anything?  ROTFLMAO.

> Looking from the outside in, it implies the majority of Americans
> are a bunch of rednecks who love killing innocent creatures.  And
> your comment about French sales just about clinches it...America
> is not the be-all, end-all of the world - just the loudest part.  While
> you dismiss the rest of the world as unimportant, you make it obvious
> just how inwardly focused you are.

> Did it ever occur to you that F1 game sales shouldn't do as well in
> the USA as in European countries (given the origins of F1).

> iksteh



> > well, it's great to see the game did well in France!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL
> I'll
> > keep that in mind if I ever go there ... Deer Hunter outsold everything
> here
> > in the states, that doesn't mean anything ...

Bob

Simmers have got it good right now....

by Bob » Tue, 04 Dec 2001 11:20:45


>That was a pretty low blow, and I think it's sad that people can hate a
>place so much they've never been to...

>Thanks,
>Alex

Uh, I think he nailed it pretty good.  And I've been there...
Not a question of "hate" at all (far from it).  More a case of "what
you see is what you get".  And a lot of it ain't a pretty sight.

Bob



>> Deer Hunter outsells everything else in the USA and it doesn't
>> mean anything?  ROTFLMAO.

>> Looking from the outside in, it implies the majority of Americans
>> are a bunch of rednecks who love killing innocent creatures.  And
>> your comment about French sales just about clinches it...America
>> is not the be-all, end-all of the world - just the loudest part.  While
>> you dismiss the rest of the world as unimportant, you make it obvious
>> just how inwardly focused you are.

>> Did it ever occur to you that F1 game sales shouldn't do as well in
>> the USA as in European countries (given the origins of F1).

>> iksteh



>> > well, it's great to see the game did well in France!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL
>> I'll
>> > keep that in mind if I ever go there ... Deer Hunter outsold everything
>> here
>> > in the states, that doesn't mean anything ...

Glen Pittma

Simmers have got it good right now....

by Glen Pittma » Tue, 04 Dec 2001 11:49:29

Yep that's us, a bunch of Rednecks who probably have or will help just about
every country there is out there.  The guys who are always the first to lend
a hand when any other country gets in trouble or suffers a tragedy, but we
are so inwardly focused.


> Deer Hunter outsells everything else in the USA and it doesn't
> mean anything?  ROTFLMAO.

> Looking from the outside in, it implies the majority of Americans
> are a bunch of rednecks who love killing innocent creatures.  And
> your comment about French sales just about clinches it...America
> is not the be-all, end-all of the world - just the loudest part.  While
> you dismiss the rest of the world as unimportant, you make it obvious
> just how inwardly focused you are.

> Did it ever occur to you that F1 game sales shouldn't do as well in
> the USA as in European countries (given the origins of F1).

> iksteh



> > well, it's great to see the game did well in France!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL
> I'll
> > keep that in mind if I ever go there ... Deer Hunter outsold everything
> here
> > in the states, that doesn't mean anything ...

<phillipmalph..

Simmers have got it good right now....

by <phillipmalph.. » Tue, 04 Dec 2001 11:55:02

Does not the fan blow in warm or cold weather?

Are these European or African fans???

LOL

Phillip


>   nono..the thicker cold air would cause the individual fan blades to
fight
> more drag.(hey at least you recognize bs when you see it.)  :)
> dave henrie


> > Fans  would work better, the colder the air, density increases. But I
love
> > people trying to baffle
> > everyone with bullshit. Just admit your wrong about the hoovercraft on
ice
> > statement and quite
> > trying to BS your way out of it. Be a man. :)



> > > Fans would be more efficient in cold dense air actually.



> > > >   Clearly the friction co-eficient of ice compared to water is more
> > slick
> > > so
> > > > the air molecules have less to grip which provides less lift and and
> > less
> > > > turning ability.  Then too the lower temperatures associated with
ice
> > > means
> > > > the fans won't work as efficiently, will be prone to icing, and will
> be
> > a
> > > > pain to maintain.
> > > >   You :) asked!
> > > > dave henrie


> > > > >   Lol, good point :)

> > > > > -John


> message

> > > > > > Please tell us why a hovercraft on ice would feel any different
to
> > one
> > > > on
> > > > > > any other surface...

> > > > > > Jan. ;-)
> > > > > > =---
> > > > > > "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn.

> > > > > > "John Pancoast" wrote...
> > > > > > > <snip> well, when it feels like you're driving a hovercraft
> > > > > > > on ice.............


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