rec.autos.simulators

by **Eldre** » Mon, 29 Apr 2002 22:24:27

Man, I had a TERRIBLE race. During one of the cautions, I made a pitstop out
of 18th or 19th spot. Went too far in the pit box, so I tried to shift into
reverse. Several times. No good. Finally went back on the track to go around
again. This time, another car pitted in the stall right before mine. I ended
up too far RIGHT in the stall. I could pull forward, but then I couldn't back
up again. Sigh...go around again. This time, I was alone in the pits, and
could hit my pit stall. My next yellow flag stop(this one after a wreck that
saw me flip over) met with similar results - no reverse.
After about 40 or so laps we had ANOTHER crash. I made it through about 75% of
it, then got sideswiped and went sliding. I ended up against the inside wall.
Directly heading into the wall. No angle, and with no reverse, I was stuck. I
could have probably called for a tow truck, but I'd been way off the pace due
to damage, and was just in the way.
I quit, then ran 2 GPL races for one of my race clubs, getting a 2nd and a 1st.
When I came back to Sierra, the Daytona race had JUST ended, so I was able to
run Homestead. I did better in that race, but still finished a lap down. :(

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure
*** cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a
donation. Thank you.

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by **Harja** » Mon, 29 Apr 2002 22:59:10

I think I need a clarification on the rules, because what I did positioning
my car on the low lane is that jumping the start? I was doing 70 all the
time waiting for the green flag and wouldn't have passed you before the
finish even if I had the chance. The reason I was driving low was just to
show my present and hoping that I could affect you and the other guys in
front by doing that. Because I know the entire lap would be run low, and I
hoped to create some confusion.

On the first restart my reaction time was quite a bit better than the guys
in front of me, I hadn't left a gap to get a run on the guys in front. I was
just quicker.

About racing to the flag, just do it. It's tense and it creates a lot of
confusion when you don't do it. I really see no reason not to do it.

> I had plenty of fuel according to the fuel guage. Tires were a bit of an
> issue since I had stopped earlier but car felt fine. On that last restart
I
> saw harjan was going to try to get a run and pass me low into one and I'm
> not a big fan of jumping the restarts so I just went low with him. I think
> that may have put you to the outside of him. It was pretty good racing up
> front but there are some thaat need to find a little patience and the
racing
> will be much better.

> --
> Mike Grandy
> www.precision-racing.com

> > Harjan, no apologies needed for the last lap deal. The last lap is the
> time
> > to let it all hang out.

> > My anticipation for the ras event would be for everyone to draft and
> follow
> > in qual order except for mistakes until after the fuel interval. It
would
> > have been great if we could have run green until after the pit stop and
> then
> > the last bit of the race we could have raced hard. It did not happen
> > anything like that. From lap 1 people were forcing passes and racing
> crazy.
> > It looked to me like you got a jump on the field on the restart after
the
> > first caution and you went high and passed or attempted to pass in a
> > dangerous manner. Then after getting behind me with that maneuver, you
> > passed me after the second yellow came out. This was the start of my
> > confusion about passing under caution.

> > I made my share of mistakes at 'dega too. I passed under caution too
and
> > then saw the leaders slowing well before the s/f line so I slowed too
but
> > did not give back the positions I gained. I also was involved in an
> > incident on the back stretch going 3 wide with a lapped car in the
middle.
> > My apologies for my transgressions.

> > Congrats to Zugzug for*** on to win after the cautions. Congrats
to
> > Grandy for second. I'm still not sure that early pit stop would have
given
> > you enough gas if it would have gone green the whole way? Didn't you
need
> > 53 laps after your stop? I wish the 53 green flag laps would have
> happened
> > so you could have demonstrated the outcome. As it turned out, even the
> guys
> > that stopped real early (21+55=76)? had plenty of fuel because of the
> > yellows?

> > Sorry I had to bolt after the race, the kids had been begging for dinner
> > since 6:00. The race was longer that I wanted it to be.

> > --
> > Robert Huggins

> > > My apologies #328.

by **Eldre** » Mon, 29 Apr 2002 23:10:27

>Passing to the right on the restart before the line is legal. Passing left
>is not.

But if the guy on the right jams on the brakes(or gets slowed by the wall
suck), there isn't much you can do... You first have to realize that it's
about to happen, and be able to react before you get by. If *you* jam on the
brakes, you risk a pileup...
Now, if you give the spot back BEFORE the s/f line, is it still a penalty?
Why *is* it illegal to pass on the left?

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure
*** cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a
donation. Thank you.

Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **John Pancoas** » Mon, 29 Apr 2002 23:21:24

Well, fwiw, it'd be nigh impossible to program the code to recognize what
was happening in a case like that, IMO.

Does stink though.

-John

you want to label it...

> | I should add to this, that in the game's "mind",(and in reality), he
had
> | passed you for position already; he was in front of you. So, when you
> | passed him, it was a pass to the inside, for position, before the line.
> | Black flag.
> |
> | Hope this helps.
> |
> | -John
> |
> |

> | > That's not a bug. You pass to the inside before the line, you get
black
> | > flagged, doesn't matter what position. You can pass all you want to
the
> | > outside before the line.
> | > The manual says strange things will be taken into consideration, but
I've
> | > yet to see it work that way.
> | >
> | > -John
> | >
> | >

> | > > report that..
> | > >
> | > >

> | > > | How did you get your BF? I got one the other night in a pick-up
game
> | > > | where a guy jumped the start and blew by me on the outside BEFORE
the
> | > > | start-finish, then BEFORE the start-finish he let up for some
reason
> | > > | and I passed him back on the inside and was given a black flag
even
> | > > | though I crossed the start-finish line in the same position I was
in
> | > > | under yellow. Definetly a bug in the game. Just wondering if the
> | > > | same thing happend to you.
> | > > |
> | > > | Brian Oster
> | > > | aka ZugZug1
> | > > |
> | > > |

> | > > |
> | > > | >
> | > > | >

> | > > | >>
> | > > | >
> | > > | >Sorry Ed, but I disagree with you on the restart, unless there's
a
> | > > | >problem with the server or something, I'm against restarts
> | > > | >
> | > > | >Having said that though, that was a pretty shitty race, it had
> | > > | >everything but long green runs :-), guys racing to the front from
L1,
> | > no
> | > > | >discipline under yellow.....man, I think we even came to a halt
in
> | the
> | > > | >Tri Oval as went green once ?
> | > > | >
> | > > | >Good thing I have a sense of humor :-), sorry to BFarmer for
taking
> | you
> | > > | >out late in the race, I was trying to get low to pit to serve a
bogus
> | > BF
> | > > | >and was clearly not paying attention to my surroundings
> | > > | >
> | > > | >Man, I was being so patient and all, just dodged wrecks and tried
to
> | > > | >keep the car in piece, was in about 10th late in the race and
then I
> | > got
> | > > | >that BF, was PO'ed and haven't raced online for a a while, paid
the
> | > > | >price for that, too bad BFarmer did the same
> | > > | >
> | > > | >It IS possible to have good racing at Dega guys, I know, I had at
> | least
> | > > | >*one* back on TEN :-), but it takes patience
> | > > | >
> | > > | >As for me, I need to brush up on some NASCAR rules
> | > > | >
> | > > | >"You are NOT allowed to serve BF's during restarts" - gotcha
> | > > | >"You are NOT allowed to merge before T1, even under yellow" -
gotcha
> | > > | >
> | > > | >
> | > > | >Beers and cheers
> | > > | >(uncle) Goy
> | > > | >
> | > > | >"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/
> | > > | >
> | > > | >"A man is only as old as the woman he feels"
> | > > | >--Groucho Marx--
> | > > |
> | > > | Brian Oster
> | > > |
> | > >
> | > >
> | >
> | >
> |
> |

by **John Pancoas** » Mon, 29 Apr 2002 23:23:51

I took " where a guy jumped the start and blew by me on the outside
BEFORE the start-finish " to mean he passed to the right ?

-John

the LEFT then slowed down and he passed him back, meaning
I call it a bug, he did not do anything wrong...

> | That's not a bug. You pass to the inside before the line, you get
black
> | flagged, doesn't matter what position. You can pass all you want to
the
> | outside before the line.
> | The manual says strange things will be taken into consideration, but
I've
> | yet to see it work that way.
> |
> | -John
> |
> |

> | > report that..
> | >
> | >

> | > | How did you get your BF? I got one the other night in a pick-up
game
> | > | where a guy jumped the start and blew by me on the outside BEFORE
the
> | > | start-finish, then BEFORE the start-finish he let up for some reason
> | > | and I passed him back on the inside and was given a black flag even
> | > | though I crossed the start-finish line in the same position I was in
> | > | under yellow. Definetly a bug in the game. Just wondering if the
> | > | same thing happend to you.
> | > |
> | > | Brian Oster
> | > | aka ZugZug1
> | > |
> | > |

> | > |
> | > | >
> | > | >

> | > | >>
> | > | >
> | > | >Sorry Ed, but I disagree with you on the restart, unless there's a
> | > | >problem with the server or something, I'm against restarts
> | > | >
> | > | >Having said that though, that was a pretty shitty race, it had
> | > | >everything but long green runs :-), guys racing to the front from
L1,
> | no
> | > | >discipline under yellow.....man, I think we even came to a halt in
the
> | > | >Tri Oval as went green once ?
> | > | >
> | > | >Good thing I have a sense of humor :-), sorry to BFarmer for taking
you
> | > | >out late in the race, I was trying to get low to pit to serve a
bogus
> | BF
> | > | >and was clearly not paying attention to my surroundings
> | > | >
> | > | >Man, I was being so patient and all, just dodged wrecks and tried
to
> | > | >keep the car in piece, was in about 10th late in the race and then
I
> | got
> | > | >that BF, was PO'ed and haven't raced online for a a while, paid the
> | > | >price for that, too bad BFarmer did the same
> | > | >
> | > | >It IS possible to have good racing at Dega guys, I know, I had at
least
> | > | >*one* back on TEN :-), but it takes patience
> | > | >
> | > | >As for me, I need to brush up on some NASCAR rules
> | > | >
> | > | >"You are NOT allowed to serve BF's during restarts" - gotcha
> | > | >"You are NOT allowed to merge before T1, even under yellow" -
gotcha
> | > | >
> | > | >
> | > | >Beers and cheers
> | > | >(uncle) Goy
> | > | >
> | > | >"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/
> | > | >
> | > | >"A man is only as old as the woman he feels"
> | > | >--Groucho Marx--
> | > |
> | > | Brian Oster
> | > |
> | >
> | >
> |
> |
> |

by **Don Burnett** » Mon, 29 Apr 2002 23:24:22

Harjan,
I really enjoyed drafting with ya while I was there, but I did notice at the
early going you tending to speed up before the green dropped, as you know
one time causing the restart to be called off. But it appeared you learned
by that, and settled down to holding pace speed at least before I left.
I agree with you on racing to the flag, you either gotta have a rule totally
against it or totally for it. If some guys do and some don't, that's just
asking for mayhem. I let up when I was in 2nd to try and let someone get a
lap back, and ended up in the wall with a badly damaged car, so I just
parked it.
Personally, I think racing back to the line is asking for trouble especially
with large fields, and my personal preference would be for there to be no
racing back to the line, but in a group such as this racing for "fun" that
would be a hard rule to enforce..

Don Burnette

> I think I need a clarification on the rules, because what I did
positioning
> my car on the low lane is that jumping the start? I was doing 70 all the
> time waiting for the green flag and wouldn't have passed you before the
> finish even if I had the chance. The reason I was driving low was just to
> show my present and hoping that I could affect you and the other guys in
> front by doing that. Because I know the entire lap would be run low, and I
> hoped to create some confusion.

> On the first restart my reaction time was quite a bit better than the guys
> in front of me, I hadn't left a gap to get a run on the guys in front. I
was
> just quicker.

> About racing to the flag, just do it. It's tense and it creates a lot of
> confusion when you don't do it. I really see no reason not to do it.

> > I had plenty of fuel according to the fuel guage. Tires were a bit of an
> > issue since I had stopped earlier but car felt fine. On that last
restart
> I
> > saw harjan was going to try to get a run and pass me low into one and
I'm
> > not a big fan of jumping the restarts so I just went low with him. I
think
> > that may have put you to the outside of him. It was pretty good racing
up
> > front but there are some thaat need to find a little patience and the
> racing
> > will be much better.

> > --
> > Mike Grandy
> > www.precision-racing.com

> > > Harjan, no apologies needed for the last lap deal. The last lap is
the
> > time
> > > to let it all hang out.

> > > My anticipation for the ras event would be for everyone to draft and
> > follow
> > > in qual order except for mistakes until after the fuel interval. It
> would
> > > have been great if we could have run green until after the pit stop
and
> > then
> > > the last bit of the race we could have raced hard. It did not happen
> > > anything like that. From lap 1 people were forcing passes and racing
> > crazy.
> > > It looked to me like you got a jump on the field on the restart after
> the
> > > first caution and you went high and passed or attempted to pass in a
> > > dangerous manner. Then after getting behind me with that maneuver,
you
> > > passed me after the second yellow came out. This was the start of my
> > > confusion about passing under caution.

> > > I made my share of mistakes at 'dega too. I passed under caution too
> and
> > > then saw the leaders slowing well before the s/f line so I slowed too
> but
> > > did not give back the positions I gained. I also was involved in an
> > > incident on the back stretch going 3 wide with a lapped car in the
> middle.
> > > My apologies for my transgressions.

> > > Congrats to Zugzug for*** on to win after the cautions. Congrats
> to
> > > Grandy for second. I'm still not sure that early pit stop would have
> given
> > > you enough gas if it would have gone green the whole way? Didn't you
> need
> > > 53 laps after your stop? I wish the 53 green flag laps would have
> > happened
> > > so you could have demonstrated the outcome. As it turned out, even
the
> > guys
> > > that stopped real early (21+55=76)? had plenty of fuel because of the
> > > yellows?

> > > Sorry I had to bolt after the race, the kids had been begging for
dinner
> > > since 6:00. The race was longer that I wanted it to be.

> > > --
> > > Robert Huggins

> > > > My apologies #328.

by **Don Burnett** » Mon, 29 Apr 2002 23:27:19

> >Passing to the right on the restart before the line is legal. Passing
left
> >is not.

> But if the guy on the right jams on the brakes(or gets slowed by the wall
> suck), there isn't much you can do... You first have to realize that it's
> about to happen, and be able to react before you get by. If *you* jam on
the
> brakes, you risk a pileup...
> Now, if you give the spot back BEFORE the s/f line, is it still a penalty?
> Why *is* it illegal to pass on the left?

> Eldred

Supposedly, the sim has built in detection, and if the car is way off speed
that you pass you will not be penalized. For instance, someone is pissed and
pulls far over to the right and virtually stops, it should not cause any
black flags to those passing on the left before the s/f.
As far is it being illegal to pass on the left before the s/f, that is to
prevent guys from getting a jump before the guys in front, going low and
passing cars before crossing the line. That is a Nascar rule, which is
enforced in N2002.
And yes, if you pass a car more up to speed, and are able to give him the
spot back before you cross the s/f, you should not be flagged.

Don Burnette

by **John Pancoas** » Mon, 29 Apr 2002 23:39:42

Just as Don says Eldred. Though I have yet to see the game work as it
says in the manual in this regard. Had a guy in one of my league races spin
his tires/get squirrly on a restart; car behind went left to avoid him,
flagged.

Re the passing/giving spot back, the rule is enforced only at the line
itself; that's where the car positions are measured.

-John

> > >Passing to the right on the restart before the line is legal. Passing
> left
> > >is not.

> > But if the guy on the right jams on the brakes(or gets slowed by the
wall
> > suck), there isn't much you can do... You first have to realize that
it's
> > about to happen, and be able to react before you get by. If *you* jam
on
> the
> > brakes, you risk a pileup...
> > Now, if you give the spot back BEFORE the s/f line, is it still a
penalty?
> > Why *is* it illegal to pass on the left?

> > Eldred

> Supposedly, the sim has built in detection, and if the car is way off
speed
> that you pass you will not be penalized. For instance, someone is pissed
and
> pulls far over to the right and virtually stops, it should not cause any
> black flags to those passing on the left before the s/f.
> As far is it being illegal to pass on the left before the s/f, that is to
> prevent guys from getting a jump before the guys in front, going low and
> passing cars before crossing the line. That is a Nascar rule, which is
> enforced in N2002.
> And yes, if you pass a car more up to speed, and are able to give him the
> spot back before you cross the s/f, you should not be flagged.

> Don Burnette

by **Harja** » Tue, 30 Apr 2002 00:03:33

I didn't know the rule on keeping the speed constant until the flag drops, I
delayed the start indeed by speeding up. And indeed after that I just keeped
the speed constant until the green flag was waved.

What could be the problem when racing back to the line?

> Harjan,
> I really enjoyed drafting with ya while I was there, but I did notice at
the
> early going you tending to speed up before the green dropped, as you know
> one time causing the restart to be called off. But it appeared you
learned
> by that, and settled down to holding pace speed at least before I left.
> I agree with you on racing to the flag, you either gotta have a rule
totally
> against it or totally for it. If some guys do and some don't, that's just
> asking for mayhem. I let up when I was in 2nd to try and let someone get a
> lap back, and ended up in the wall with a badly damaged car, so I just
> parked it.
> Personally, I think racing back to the line is asking for trouble
especially
> with large fields, and my personal preference would be for there to be no
> racing back to the line, but in a group such as this racing for "fun" that
> would be a hard rule to enforce..

> Don Burnette

> > I think I need a clarification on the rules, because what I did
> positioning
> > my car on the low lane is that jumping the start? I was doing 70 all the
> > time waiting for the green flag and wouldn't have passed you before the
> > finish even if I had the chance. The reason I was driving low was just
to
> > show my present and hoping that I could affect you and the other guys in
> > front by doing that. Because I know the entire lap would be run low, and
I
> > hoped to create some confusion.

> > On the first restart my reaction time was quite a bit better than the
guys
> > in front of me, I hadn't left a gap to get a run on the guys in front. I
> was
> > just quicker.

> > About racing to the flag, just do it. It's tense and it creates a lot of
> > confusion when you don't do it. I really see no reason not to do it.

> > > I had plenty of fuel according to the fuel guage. Tires were a bit of
an
> > > issue since I had stopped earlier but car felt fine. On that last
> restart
> > I
> > > saw harjan was going to try to get a run and pass me low into one and
> I'm
> > > not a big fan of jumping the restarts so I just went low with him. I
> think
> > > that may have put you to the outside of him. It was pretty good racing
> up
> > > front but there are some thaat need to find a little patience and the
> > racing
> > > will be much better.

> > > --
> > > Mike Grandy
> > > www.precision-racing.com

> > > > Harjan, no apologies needed for the last lap deal. The last lap is
> the
> > > time
> > > > to let it all hang out.

> > > > My anticipation for the ras event would be for everyone to draft and
> > > follow
> > > > in qual order except for mistakes until after the fuel interval. It
> > would
> > > > have been great if we could have run green until after the pit stop
> and
> > > then
> > > > the last bit of the race we could have raced hard. It did not
happen
> > > > anything like that. From lap 1 people were forcing passes and
racing
> > > crazy.
> > > > It looked to me like you got a jump on the field on the restart
after
> > the
> > > > first caution and you went high and passed or attempted to pass in a
> > > > dangerous manner. Then after getting behind me with that maneuver,
> you
> > > > passed me after the second yellow came out. This was the start of
my
> > > > confusion about passing under caution.

> > > > I made my share of mistakes at 'dega too. I passed under caution
too
> > and
> > > > then saw the leaders slowing well before the s/f line so I slowed
too
> > but
> > > > did not give back the positions I gained. I also was involved in an
> > > > incident on the back stretch going 3 wide with a lapped car in the
> > middle.
> > > > My apologies for my transgressions.

> > > > Congrats to Zugzug for*** on to win after the cautions.
Congrats
> > to
> > > > Grandy for second. I'm still not sure that early pit stop would have
> > given
> > > > you enough gas if it would have gone green the whole way? Didn't
you
> > need
> > > > 53 laps after your stop? I wish the 53 green flag laps would have
> > > happened
> > > > so you could have demonstrated the outcome. As it turned out, even
> the
> > > guys
> > > > that stopped real early (21+55=76)? had plenty of fuel because of
the
> > > > yellows?

> > > > Sorry I had to bolt after the race, the kids had been begging for
> dinner
> > > > since 6:00. The race was longer that I wanted it to be.

> > > > --
> > > > Robert Huggins

> > > > > My apologies #328.

by **Don Burnett** » Tue, 30 Apr 2002 00:14:19

Cars slowing much faster after taking the yellow flag, not so much a problem
at Dega, but at some of the smaller tracks they have to slow a lot quicker
to stay behind the pace car, and others behind doing the same inevitably
ends up in someone getting damaged by getting rear ended.
But like I said, this being mainly for fun and not really an official league
with rules and points, would be very hard to enforce. Just use a lot of
caution when trying to race back to the line..

Don Burnette

> I didn't know the rule on keeping the speed constant until the flag drops,
I
> delayed the start indeed by speeding up. And indeed after that I just
keeped
> the speed constant until the green flag was waved.

> What could be the problem when racing back to the line?

> > Harjan,
> > I really enjoyed drafting with ya while I was there, but I did notice at
> the
> > early going you tending to speed up before the green dropped, as you
know
> > one time causing the restart to be called off. But it appeared you
> learned
> > by that, and settled down to holding pace speed at least before I left.
> > I agree with you on racing to the flag, you either gotta have a rule
> totally
> > against it or totally for it. If some guys do and some don't, that's
just
> > asking for mayhem. I let up when I was in 2nd to try and let someone get
a
> > lap back, and ended up in the wall with a badly damaged car, so I just
> > parked it.
> > Personally, I think racing back to the line is asking for trouble
> especially
> > with large fields, and my personal preference would be for there to be
no
> > racing back to the line, but in a group such as this racing for "fun"
that
> > would be a hard rule to enforce..

> > Don Burnette

> > > I think I need a clarification on the rules, because what I did
> > positioning
> > > my car on the low lane is that jumping the start? I was doing 70 all
the
> > > time waiting for the green flag and wouldn't have passed you before
the
> > > finish even if I had the chance. The reason I was driving low was just
> to
> > > show my present and hoping that I could affect you and the other guys
in
> > > front by doing that. Because I know the entire lap would be run low,
and
> I
> > > hoped to create some confusion.

> > > On the first restart my reaction time was quite a bit better than the
> guys
> > > in front of me, I hadn't left a gap to get a run on the guys in front.
I
> > was
> > > just quicker.

> > > About racing to the flag, just do it. It's tense and it creates a lot
of
> > > confusion when you don't do it. I really see no reason not to do it.

> > > > I had plenty of fuel according to the fuel guage. Tires were a bit
of
> an
> > > > issue since I had stopped earlier but car felt fine. On that last
> > restart
> > > I
> > > > saw harjan was going to try to get a run and pass me low into one
and
> > I'm
> > > > not a big fan of jumping the restarts so I just went low with him. I
> > think
> > > > that may have put you to the outside of him. It was pretty good
racing
> > up
> > > > front but there are some thaat need to find a little patience and
the
> > > racing
> > > > will be much better.

> > > > --
> > > > Mike Grandy
> > > > www.precision-racing.com

> > > > > Harjan, no apologies needed for the last lap deal. The last lap
is
> > the
> > > > time
> > > > > to let it all hang out.

> > > > > My anticipation for the ras event would be for everyone to draft
and
> > > > follow
> > > > > in qual order except for mistakes until after the fuel interval.
It
> > > would
> > > > > have been great if we could have run green until after the pit
stop
> > and
> > > > then
> > > > > the last bit of the race we could have raced hard. It did not
> happen
> > > > > anything like that. From lap 1 people were forcing passes and
> racing
> > > > crazy.
> > > > > It looked to me like you got a jump on the field on the restart
> after
> > > the
> > > > > first caution and you went high and passed or attempted to pass in
a
> > > > > dangerous manner. Then after getting behind me with that
maneuver,
> > you
> > > > > passed me after the second yellow came out. This was the start of
> my
> > > > > confusion about passing under caution.

> > > > > I made my share of mistakes at 'dega too. I passed under caution
> too
> > > and
> > > > > then saw the leaders slowing well before the s/f line so I slowed
> too
> > > but
> > > > > did not give back the positions I gained. I also was involved in
an
> > > > > incident on the back stretch going 3 wide with a lapped car in the
> > > middle.
> > > > > My apologies for my transgressions.

> > > > > Congrats to Zugzug for*** on to win after the cautions.
> Congrats
> > > to
> > > > > Grandy for second. I'm still not sure that early pit stop would
have
> > > given
> > > > > you enough gas if it would have gone green the whole way? Didn't
> you
> > > need
> > > > > 53 laps after your stop? I wish the 53 green flag laps would have
> > > > happened
> > > > > so you could have demonstrated the outcome. As it turned out,
even
> > the
> > > > guys
> > > > > that stopped real early (21+55=76)? had plenty of fuel because of
> the
> > > > > yellows?

> > > > > Sorry I had to bolt after the race, the kids had been begging for
> > dinner
> > > > > since 6:00. The race was longer that I wanted it to be.

> > > > > --
> > > > > Robert Huggins

> > > > > > My apologies #328.

by **Tim** » Tue, 30 Apr 2002 01:06:09

>About racing to the flag, just do it. It's tense and it creates a lot of
>confusion when you don't do it. I really see no reason not to do it.

There are pro's and con's on both sides of the issue. Yesterday it
created a number of multicar crashes that could have been avoided,
simply because everyone thinks when cars are spinning in front of you,
this is your opportunity to make up some positions. This isn't the way
Nascar handles it, because lives are on the line. I would consider
"racing back to the yellow" ok when the track is clear and you are in
contention with another driver. Trying to thread your way through
spinning cars with the throttle full bore is just crazy though. As
long as we're all on the same page though, I'll live with what's
decided.

Tim Wortman
North American Simulation Series
www.nasscar.com

by **spar** » Tue, 30 Apr 2002 01:06:06

That's correct. It was John, topper and myself that got black flagged
and lost a lap for passing some cars that spun right before the line under
the yellow early in the race.

We spent most of the race trying to get the lap back and, fortunately
for topper and myself, we were allowed to by Mike Grandy (who sacrificed his
lead I think) and please tell me who else. Thanks again guys. It made the
end of our race much more enjoyable.

spark18

by **John Simmon** » Tue, 30 Apr 2002 01:12:11

> > >Passing to the right on the restart before the line is legal. Passing
> left
> > >is not.

> > But if the guy on the right jams on the brakes(or gets slowed by the wall
> > suck), there isn't much you can do... You first have to realize that it's
> > about to happen, and be able to react before you get by. If *you* jam on
> the
> > brakes, you risk a pileup...
> > Now, if you give the spot back BEFORE the s/f line, is it still a penalty?
> > Why *is* it illegal to pass on the left?

> > Eldred

> Supposedly, the sim has built in detection, and if the car is way off speed
> that you pass you will not be penalized. For instance, someone is pissed and
> pulls far over to the right and virtually stops, it should not cause any
> black flags to those passing on the left before the s/f.
> As far is it being illegal to pass on the left before the s/f, that is to
> prevent guys from getting a jump before the guys in front, going low and
> passing cars before crossing the line. That is a Nascar rule, which is
> enforced in N2002.
> And yes, if you pass a car more up to speed, and are able to give him the
> spot back before you cross the s/f, you should not be flagged.

> Don Burnette

Theory is real nice, but yesterday, THREE of us were black flagged LONG
before we even crossed the S/F line.

That pretty much ended our race.

--
=========================================================
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http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2
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http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar
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http://www.paddedwall.org/john
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http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast

If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
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by **Kyle Robert** » Tue, 30 Apr 2002 01:42:01

Mike Grandy was leading and I was in second when you got your lap back. I
don't think he lost the lead. I did get passed for second and almost ran
over by another car though. Did John Simmons get spun by someone when he was
trying to get his lap back at the same time? I thought I saw a car go
spinning down low coming back to take the caution. It was tough trying to be
nice and give everyone their lap back and not get ran over in the process.

Kyle

by **Ed Solhei** » Tue, 30 Apr 2002 01:50:43

IHMO, dump-drafting online is for idiots (no offence). It's very hazardous
and the possilbe gain from it is microscopic.. It should be "outlawed"
imho.. :-)

--
ed_

"Mike Grandy" said:

rec.autos.simulators

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