rec.autos.simulators

by **Goy Larse** » Mon, 29 Apr 2002 18:01:40

> How did you get your BF? I got one the other night in a pick-up game
> where a guy jumped the start and blew by me on the outside BEFORE the
> start-finish, then BEFORE the start-finish he let up for some reason
> and I passed him back on the inside and was given a black flag even
> though I crossed the start-finish line in the same position I was in
> under yellow. Definetly a bug in the game. Just wondering if the
> same thing happend to you.

Nope, was told to stay behind the #7 car, even though I was in the right
place according to the F2 screen

Today it's no big deal, but last night....:-), in the heat of the
moment, after being patient and just keeping out of trouble in an
incident packed race, I was hopping mad, which explains my total brain
fade even though it doesn't excuse it

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

http://www.racesimcentral.net/
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
--Groucho Marx--

by **ymenar** » Mon, 29 Apr 2002 18:09:23

> That sould of read as "bump drafted past ymenard by G. Reeve".

I was about to reply to your other post with "I never bumped you in the
practice I think?" until I read that :)

I don't bump-draft, it's just something I learned hard from back on the
NROS. Many of us developed from there a no-bump racing attitude because if
you slightly mis-aligned your car by even half a feet, a wreck would ensue!
I have this nice 900kb replay during practice where 7-8 cars are just
chaotically and wildly placed in a drafting group.

I found out just before the race that you could plug the wheel without the
pedals, so I say why not just enter the race? Only at Daytona or Dega would
I had done that. My right thumb was sore from keeping it pressed down on
the button while keeping a fair grip. It's not very well placed, it's too
far down compared to the spine portion of the wheel where you normally place
your right hand. I didn't want to take the risk of mapping the gas to the
back paddle, the plastic would had been too weak :)

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

by **ymenar** » Mon, 29 Apr 2002 18:16:28

> From lap 1 people were forcing passes and racing crazy.

I noticed that even up front. I remember you making that comment on that
when you were behind me (during the first dozens of laps you were I think
6-7th while I was 5th). Basically I just kept an open space in front of me
so one of those 4 cars could easily come back in line instead of creating
2-wide trouble. It's always good for the lead pack early on a restart to
focus on single-file racing, because the lead pack will split up. It's much
safer to race up front with 8 cars instead of 20.

I was the last one in the leading group to pit, I think. I personally felt
that it was too dangerous too early in the race to get some fuel. You would
had comeback far into the field and we already had had 3-4 cautions back
there. Eventually later in the race cars would drop out of the race or go a
lap down, so you would comeback further in front if you pitted after
half-point. You would also have fresher tyres, it's never a bad thing at
Dega when you want to hold that apron pass low into turn 3 :)

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

by **Colin Harri** » Mon, 29 Apr 2002 18:43:29

Congrats to

No, Mike and I were chatting, in-race, and we knew that we pitted at the
right time - we had enough fuel to finish, plus about three laps, I think.
Worked well for both of us, he got a deserved second, and I was in the top 5
a lot until getting rear-ended (and the guy didn't even buy me flowers!)

by **Joachim Trens** » Mon, 29 Apr 2002 22:41:41

Hehe, bad luck that I didn't stay then.

We could have had a good race as we seemed pretty evenly matched. Thanks for
giving me room and letting me have the lead when I tried to take it btw. I
hope me squeezing beside you didn't get you into trouble as it spoiled your
line.

But at the time when I left, I reckoned we'd be getting another couple of
yellows in the second half as well (seemed likely, after all we'd spent most
of the first 40 laps under yellow) and since I was extremely tired (it was
2am, I had been up until 5:30am the night before, and then I'd slept only ~4
hours), I decided to go to sleep.

To be honest, my vision was so blurred at times that I was having a hard
time seeing details like the line that limits the track on the inside when
approaching T1/T3 at speed. Before the race I'd actually been wondering
whether I'd be a menace for the others because of this. But then the racer
within me prevailed and I just _had_ to start the race. I should have had a
cup of coffee before, and will do so the next time I join a RASCAR event.

Anyway, I am at peace with my decision, I slept wonderfully last night :-)

Achim

> > Not sure about the restarting - it's a two-faced medal. A race is a
race,
> > and if an incident occurs, that's racing. Even if it takes out half the
> > field.

> > Homestead didn't have any havoc, and I saw fast guys, good racing and
> > intelligent driving around me (Colin!). Unfortunately we had quite a few
> > yellows again. More than I was able to sit out at 2am, so I quit after
> > around 40 laps, wrote this... and went to bed :-)

> Not that these two facts are related (!) but after you left there weren't
> any more :-)
> (and for those who weren't there, Achim didn't cause any of 'em)

by **Colin Harri** » Mon, 29 Apr 2002 20:16:24

Nope, no problems at all :-)
Glad you enjoyed your sleep! (btw, did my private email to you get there
ok?)

by **Mike Grand** » Mon, 29 Apr 2002 21:44:13

Thats one thing I have never been able to figure out. Seems Daytona and
Talladega bring out the worst in people. It isn't a balls to wall, dive
under everyone you can simply because of the nature of the track. Unless you
have been racing together as a group for a long time it is hard to tell what
the guy behind you is going to do. I found only a few that would draft with
me and no one really wanted to go outside. That only leaves a pass on the
inside and the guy in front of you doesn't want to get hung out. Thats where
the accidents come from. The outside groove at these tracks is just as fast
as the inside but you need 3-4 cars to make it work.

--
Mike Grandy
www.precision-racing.com

> > I dont know how the rest you folks feel, by I'm utterly disappointed in
> how
> > the Talladega race went... I mean - it's a 70 laps race guys - and you
> > still manage to create havoc on lap 1!?!?

> That is really bad luck for you unfortunately. You didn't end up missing
> anything though. :-)

> > I've not had the chance to parteceipate in many RASCAR races... and
would
> > love to finish one... is that a thing of the past?

> I've been in all 12 RASCAR races so far, and only this one and Pocono were
> full of yellows. Not sure why though. I guess it's just people being too
> aggressive. The other races have been very, very clean. Talladega did have
> the biggest field yet (35 I think) so that had a little to do with it. I
did
> have a lot of fun in practice though. Even got bump drafted by ymenard
> thanks to Grant Reeve. I expected the same type of stuff in the race
> but.........what a disappointment.

> David G Fisher

by **Mike Grand** » Mon, 29 Apr 2002 21:48:00

This model is much easier to bump draft with. The key to bump drafting I've
found is when you do bump the front driver if he lets go of the wheel at the
exact second of impact and if his car is misaligned he won't over correct,
which is why most people wreck.

--
Mike Grandy
www.precision-racing.com

> > That sould of read as "bump drafted past ymenard by G. Reeve".

> I was about to reply to your other post with "I never bumped you in the
> practice I think?" until I read that :)

> I don't bump-draft, it's just something I learned hard from back on the
> NROS. Many of us developed from there a no-bump racing attitude because
if
> you slightly mis-aligned your car by even half a feet, a wreck would
ensue!
> I have this nice 900kb replay during practice where 7-8 cars are just
> chaotically and wildly placed in a drafting group.

> > BTW, Ymenard drove without pedals today which must of been pretty damn
> > difficult.

> I found out just before the race that you could plug the wheel without the
> pedals, so I say why not just enter the race? Only at Daytona or Dega
would
> I had done that. My right thumb was sore from keeping it pressed down on
> the button while keeping a fair grip. It's not very well placed, it's too
> far down compared to the spine portion of the wheel where you normally
place
> your right hand. I didn't want to take the risk of mapping the gas to the
> back paddle, the plastic would had been too weak :)

> --
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/
> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
> Corporation - helping America into the New World...

by **Mike Grand** » Mon, 29 Apr 2002 21:49:39

Not so much a bug as a programming nightmare.

--
Mike Grandy
www.precision-racing.com

you want to label it...

> | I should add to this, that in the game's "mind",(and in reality), he
had
> | passed you for position already; he was in front of you. So, when you
> | passed him, it was a pass to the inside, for position, before the line.
> | Black flag.
> |
> | Hope this helps.
> |
> | -John
> |
> |

> | > That's not a bug. You pass to the inside before the line, you get
black
> | > flagged, doesn't matter what position. You can pass all you want to
the
> | > outside before the line.
> | > The manual says strange things will be taken into consideration, but
I've
> | > yet to see it work that way.
> | >
> | > -John
> | >
> | >

> | > > report that..
> | > >
> | > >

> | > > | How did you get your BF? I got one the other night in a pick-up
game
> | > > | where a guy jumped the start and blew by me on the outside BEFORE
the
> | > > | start-finish, then BEFORE the start-finish he let up for some
reason
> | > > | and I passed him back on the inside and was given a black flag
even
> | > > | though I crossed the start-finish line in the same position I was
in
> | > > | under yellow. Definetly a bug in the game. Just wondering if the
> | > > | same thing happend to you.
> | > > |
> | > > | Brian Oster
> | > > | aka ZugZug1
> | > > |
> | > > |

> | > > |
> | > > | >
> | > > | >

> | > > | >>
> | > > | >
> | > > | >Sorry Ed, but I disagree with you on the restart, unless there's
a
> | > > | >problem with the server or something, I'm against restarts
> | > > | >
> | > > | >Having said that though, that was a pretty shitty race, it had
> | > > | >everything but long green runs :-), guys racing to the front from
L1,
> | > no
> | > > | >discipline under yellow.....man, I think we even came to a halt
in
> | the
> | > > | >Tri Oval as went green once ?
> | > > | >
> | > > | >Good thing I have a sense of humor :-), sorry to BFarmer for
taking
> | you
> | > > | >out late in the race, I was trying to get low to pit to serve a
bogus
> | > BF
> | > > | >and was clearly not paying attention to my surroundings
> | > > | >
> | > > | >Man, I was being so patient and all, just dodged wrecks and tried
to
> | > > | >keep the car in piece, was in about 10th late in the race and
then I
> | > got
> | > > | >that BF, was PO'ed and haven't raced online for a a while, paid
the
> | > > | >price for that, too bad BFarmer did the same
> | > > | >
> | > > | >It IS possible to have good racing at Dega guys, I know, I had at
> | least
> | > > | >*one* back on TEN :-), but it takes patience
> | > > | >
> | > > | >As for me, I need to brush up on some NASCAR rules
> | > > | >
> | > > | >"You are NOT allowed to serve BF's during restarts" - gotcha
> | > > | >"You are NOT allowed to merge before T1, even under yellow" -
gotcha
> | > > | >
> | > > | >
> | > > | >Beers and cheers
> | > > | >(uncle) Goy
> | > > | >
> | > > | >"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/
> | > > | >
> | > > | >"A man is only as old as the woman he feels"
> | > > | >--Groucho Marx--
> | > > |
> | > > | Brian Oster
> | > > |
> | > >
> | > >
> | >
> | >
> |
> |

by **Mike Grand** » Mon, 29 Apr 2002 21:50:34

Passing to the right on the restart before the line is legal. Passing left
is not.

--
Mike Grandy
www.precision-racing.com

the LEFT then slowed down and he passed him back, meaning
I call it a bug, he did not do anything wrong...

> | That's not a bug. You pass to the inside before the line, you get
black
> | flagged, doesn't matter what position. You can pass all you want to
the
> | outside before the line.
> | The manual says strange things will be taken into consideration, but
I've
> | yet to see it work that way.
> |
> | -John
> |
> |

> | > report that..
> | >
> | >

> | > | How did you get your BF? I got one the other night in a pick-up
game
> | > | where a guy jumped the start and blew by me on the outside BEFORE
the
> | > | start-finish, then BEFORE the start-finish he let up for some reason
> | > | and I passed him back on the inside and was given a black flag even
> | > | though I crossed the start-finish line in the same position I was in
> | > | under yellow. Definetly a bug in the game. Just wondering if the
> | > | same thing happend to you.
> | > |
> | > | Brian Oster
> | > | aka ZugZug1
> | > |
> | > |

> | > |
> | > | >
> | > | >

> | > | >>
> | > | >
> | > | >Sorry Ed, but I disagree with you on the restart, unless there's a
> | > | >problem with the server or something, I'm against restarts
> | > | >
> | > | >Having said that though, that was a pretty shitty race, it had
> | > | >everything but long green runs :-), guys racing to the front from
L1,
> | no
> | > | >discipline under yellow.....man, I think we even came to a halt in
the
> | > | >Tri Oval as went green once ?
> | > | >
> | > | >Good thing I have a sense of humor :-), sorry to BFarmer for taking
you
> | > | >out late in the race, I was trying to get low to pit to serve a
bogus
> | BF
> | > | >and was clearly not paying attention to my surroundings
> | > | >
> | > | >Man, I was being so patient and all, just dodged wrecks and tried
to
> | > | >keep the car in piece, was in about 10th late in the race and then
I
> | got
> | > | >that BF, was PO'ed and haven't raced online for a a while, paid the
> | > | >price for that, too bad BFarmer did the same
> | > | >
> | > | >It IS possible to have good racing at Dega guys, I know, I had at
least
> | > | >*one* back on TEN :-), but it takes patience
> | > | >
> | > | >As for me, I need to brush up on some NASCAR rules
> | > | >
> | > | >"You are NOT allowed to serve BF's during restarts" - gotcha
> | > | >"You are NOT allowed to merge before T1, even under yellow" -
gotcha
> | > | >
> | > | >
> | > | >Beers and cheers
> | > | >(uncle) Goy
> | > | >
> | > | >"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/
> | > | >
> | > | >"A man is only as old as the woman he feels"
> | > | >--Groucho Marx--
> | > |
> | > | Brian Oster
> | > |
> | >
> | >
> |
> |
> |

by **Mike Grand** » Mon, 29 Apr 2002 21:56:35

I had plenty of fuel according to the fuel guage. Tires were a bit of an
issue since I had stopped earlier but car felt fine. On that last restart I
saw harjan was going to try to get a run and pass me low into one and I'm
not a big fan of jumping the restarts so I just went low with him. I think
that may have put you to the outside of him. It was pretty good racing up
front but there are some thaat need to find a little patience and the racing
will be much better.

--
Mike Grandy
www.precision-racing.com

> Harjan, no apologies needed for the last lap deal. The last lap is the
time
> to let it all hang out.

> My anticipation for the ras event would be for everyone to draft and
follow
> in qual order except for mistakes until after the fuel interval. It would
> have been great if we could have run green until after the pit stop and
then
> the last bit of the race we could have raced hard. It did not happen
> anything like that. From lap 1 people were forcing passes and racing
crazy.
> It looked to me like you got a jump on the field on the restart after the
> first caution and you went high and passed or attempted to pass in a
> dangerous manner. Then after getting behind me with that maneuver, you
> passed me after the second yellow came out. This was the start of my
> confusion about passing under caution.

> I made my share of mistakes at 'dega too. I passed under caution too and
> then saw the leaders slowing well before the s/f line so I slowed too but
> did not give back the positions I gained. I also was involved in an
> incident on the back stretch going 3 wide with a lapped car in the middle.
> My apologies for my transgressions.

> Congrats to Zugzug for*** on to win after the cautions. Congrats to
> Grandy for second. I'm still not sure that early pit stop would have given
> you enough gas if it would have gone green the whole way? Didn't you need
> 53 laps after your stop? I wish the 53 green flag laps would have
happened
> so you could have demonstrated the outcome. As it turned out, even the
guys
> that stopped real early (21+55=76)? had plenty of fuel because of the
> yellows?

> Sorry I had to bolt after the race, the kids had been begging for dinner
> since 6:00. The race was longer that I wanted it to be.

> --
> Robert Huggins

> > My apologies #328.

by **Mike Grand** » Mon, 29 Apr 2002 21:58:25

I saw that Frank and I certainly appreciated it when I got hung out early
on. Those are the kind of considerations that get payed back tenfold.

--
Mike Grandy
www.precision-racing.com

> > From lap 1 people were forcing passes and racing crazy.

> I noticed that even up front. I remember you making that comment on that
> when you were behind me (during the first dozens of laps you were I think
> 6-7th while I was 5th). Basically I just kept an open space in front of
me
> so one of those 4 cars could easily come back in line instead of creating
> 2-wide trouble. It's always good for the lead pack early on a restart to
> focus on single-file racing, because the lead pack will split up. It's
much
> safer to race up front with 8 cars instead of 20.

> > Didn't you need
> > 53 laps after your stop? I wish the 53 green flag laps would have
> happened
> > so you could have demonstrated the outcome. As it turned out, even the
> guys
> > that stopped real early (21+55=76)? had plenty of fuel because of the
> > yellows?

> I was the last one in the leading group to pit, I think. I personally
felt
> that it was too dangerous too early in the race to get some fuel. You
would
> had comeback far into the field and we already had had 3-4 cautions back
> there. Eventually later in the race cars would drop out of the race or go
a
> lap down, so you would comeback further in front if you pitted after
> half-point. You would also have fresher tyres, it's never a bad thing at
> Dega when you want to hold that apron pass low into turn 3 :)

> --
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/
> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
> Corporation - helping America into the New World...

by **Mike Grand** » Mon, 29 Apr 2002 22:02:01

It was fun racing with you Colin. I was stationed in England back in the
late 70's and spent 2 years in the Ipswitch area. Where abouts are you from.

--
Mike Grandy
www.precision-racing.com

> Congrats to
> > Grandy for second. I'm still not sure that early pit stop would have
given
> > you enough gas if it would have gone green the whole way? Didn't you
need
> > 53 laps after your stop? I wish the 53 green flag laps would have
> happened
> > so you could have demonstrated the outcome. As it turned out, even the
> guys
> > that stopped real early (21+55=76)? had plenty of fuel because of the
> > yellows?

> No, Mike and I were chatting, in-race, and we knew that we pitted at the
> right time - we had enough fuel to finish, plus about three laps, I think.
> Worked well for both of us, he got a deserved second, and I was in the top
5
> a lot until getting rear-ended (and the guy didn't even buy me flowers!)

by **John Simmon** » Mon, 29 Apr 2002 22:07:02

The thing that pissed me off is that a bunch of people wrecked on the
caution lap just before the green came out, and at least three of us got
black-flagged for passing low to gain a position or some such nonsense.
It was either avoid/pass the wreck or get caught up in it.

We got screwed because someone was driving with his head up his ass.

--
=========================================================
DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
http://www.paddedwall.org/demons
DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development)
http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2
RASCAR Roster
http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar
Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
http://www.paddedwall.org/john
Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting)
http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast

If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
=========================================================

by **John Simmon** » Mon, 29 Apr 2002 22:10:43

> > You really can't start a policy of restarting like that, someone always
> ends
> > up losing out in the end, it is best just to take things as they come,
> some
> > days are good, and others will be bad. Just like real racing.
> > I hate to see anyone get involved in a wreck, especially on the first lap,
> > but you gotta just take whatever happens with a grain of salt and move on.
> > In N2002, just like N4, when you get fields of the size we had today,
> things
> > will happen, it's inevitable, especially when you have so many drivers
> that
> > aren't used to racing with each other yet. Heck, I am in a very good
> league
> > and we have been racing together for some time, but when the fields are
> > large things are going to happen, that's the trade-off for the great
> physics
> > model we have.
> > I had fun while I was there, don't know how it went after I left but we
> did
> > at least get some good green flag racing in.
> > Thanks for having me guys, and hopefully will be able to race more with ya
> > in the future..

> One problem that I have, more so in GPL, is hearing my own engine and tyres
> at the start of a race. With everyone else's engines revving like mad, I
> often end up losing control because I can't hear what my car's doing.
> Anyone else have this problem? Any solutions?

> --
> Damien Smith

> ICQ: 77028579
> F1 2001 rank: -5.658

You can either turn down opponents engines, or turn up your own.

--
=========================================================
DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
http://www.paddedwall.org/demons
DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development)
http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2
RASCAR Roster
http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar
Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
http://www.paddedwall.org/john
Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting)
http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast

If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
=========================================================

rec.autos.simulators

RASCAR: Disappointment at 'Dega...

RASCAR: Disappointment at 'Dega...

RASCAR: Disappointment at 'Dega...

RASCAR: Disappointment at 'Dega...

RASCAR: Disappointment at 'Dega...

RASCAR: Disappointment at 'Dega...

RASCAR: Disappointment at 'Dega...

RASCAR: Disappointment at 'Dega...

RASCAR: Disappointment at 'Dega...

RASCAR: Disappointment at 'Dega...

RASCAR: Disappointment at 'Dega...

RASCAR: Disappointment at 'Dega...

RASCAR: Disappointment at 'Dega...

RASCAR: Disappointment at 'Dega...

RASCAR: Disappointment at 'Dega...

RASCAR: Disappointment at 'Dega...