rec.autos.simulators

by **Greg Cisk** » Fri, 23 Jan 1998 04:00:00

>>Now this is where it gets dicey. Little over slight majority is 56%?
>>There are many 3D boards out and 3dfx has 56% of the market
>>share? IMHO it is a huge share and your vague way of wording it
>>minumized as much as possible. I had to read it again to realize
>>what the heck you were saying :-)

>Sorry . The reason I used the wording I did is that I didn't know
>exactly what percent of the market 3DFX had. I recalled reading it
>was 50-something. Rather than state an inaccurate amount, I said
>"over slight majority". A simple majority is anything over 50%, so by

Excuse me but no it isn't. Think about political elections where there are
more than 2 people. A majority can easily be 21% if there are enough
players (5) to split up the vote. 56% is huge if there are more than 2
strong
competitors eating up the votes. You think there are more than 3 or 3 3D
video chipsets? Anyway I think I explained my confusion on this. I got
scared when I thought the 3dfx market share was around 21%. As it is
now, "forget about it" to quote the movie 'Donny Brosco'.

Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

by **Greg Cisk** » Fri, 23 Jan 1998 04:00:00

>competitors eating up the votes. You think there are more than 3 or 3 3D

I meant 2 or 3 chipsets not 3 or 3...
--
Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

by **Patrick L. Dots** » Fri, 23 Jan 1998 04:00:00

>>"over slight majority". A simple majority is anything over 50%, so by

>Excuse me but no it isn't. Think about political elections where there are
>more than 2 people. A majority can easily be 21% if there are enough
>players (5) to split up the vote. 56% is huge if there are more than 2
>strong
>competitors eating up the votes. You think there are more than 3 or 3 3D

No - if the largest percentage of any group is less than 50%, it's
called a plurality. A majority implies more than 50%.

by **Barton Spencer Brow** » Fri, 23 Jan 1998 04:00:00

Boy, has this turkey strayed from the topic! Anyway:

plurality:

4.a. In a contest of more than two choices, the number of votes cast for
the winning choice if this number is not more than one half of the total
votes cast. b. The number by which the vote of the winning choice in
such a contest exceeds that of the closest opponent.

by **John Walla** » Sat, 24 Jan 1998 04:00:00

On Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:55:08 -0500, Barton Spencer Brown

>Boy, has this turkey strayed from the topic! Anyway:
>plurality:

>4.a. In a contest of more than two choices, the number of votes cast for
>the winning choice if this number is not more than one half of the total
>votes cast. b. The number by which the vote of the winning choice in
>such a contest exceeds that of the closest opponent.

Try another few dictionaries and I think you'll find that the
definitions vary depending upon which dictionary you use. The precise
meaning of words becomes adapted according to usage as the years go
on, and it is this which makes it impossible to quote one "definitive"
definition (if you'l pardon the contradiction in terms).

Cheers!
John

by **John Walla** » Mon, 26 Jan 1998 04:00:00

>No doubt. The misinformation is being fought pretty hard. There are
>sites now where you can go and compare head-to-head full-size screen
>grabs of the latest games to see for yourself, but there are still a
>lot of VoodooZealots (I wish I'd come up with this name, but someone
>else did) who are only too happy to continue singing this old song,

People want to believe that what they have is the best, it's human
nature. RIVA is a pretty good product now and will be better with
further matured drivers. If you put a gun to my head and forced me to
buy a 3D card today I'd still get a 3dFX though, for the simple reason
that it runs anything that the RIVA will and Glide specific products
on top.

What's your screen name on NROS? I'll look out for you :-)

It's pretty easy to grab market share in an expanding market, again
you can't read much into that. Taking market share _away_ from someone
else in an established market is far more difficult, and all the
numbers I have seen on that show that all those offers from other 3D
card manufacturers asking 3dFX to "trade in" were pretty much ignored.

I'd guess (and hope) they will be well supported though. As a first
foray into the 3D market this will be watched carefully, and a failure
to support a product now could be the death knell for future releases.
I was actually toying with the idea of a RIVA myself, and if N2 3dFX
and SODA 3dFX were on the market now I probably would have got one and
replaced my Rendition board, but as it is it looks like I'll be
waiting for Voodoo II to be supported and then buy one of those. I'm
pretty happy with "standard" 3dFX at the moment.

Cheers!
John

by **Randy Magrud** » Tue, 27 Jan 1998 04:00:00

>People want to believe that what they have is the best, it's human
>nature.

Well, I have a Stealth II S220, and the only reason I have the STB
Velocity is that Dell refused to ship me a system WITHOUT a video
board, so it sort of came and I didn't know anything about Riva at the
time. As a direct result of the quality of the Riva board, the
Stealth II is now in my wife's computer :). I really have had no
agenda with Riva, except that it bugs me to see some of the inaccurate
dissing of it that has gone on here.

If you put a gun to my head I'd get 3DFX right now, too. But not a
Rush chipset. I'd get a M3D as an add-on to the Riva board. The two
complement each other nicely. I was thinking last night while doing
some airline adventures in Flight Sim 98 that considering Greg's
comments that 3DFX ruled the flight sim world, he couldn't run FS98 in
the resolution I was, and after switching back to lower resolutions
(640x480) to see how it looked, I was quite glad for higher resolution
support.

RMagruder. I don't drive pick-up races. I'm in the OSCAR league,
Outlaw division 5. (Came in 4th in a 200 lapper at Marty..one of my
better finishes).

Its a million units in a single quarter John. That's not chickenfeed.

Randy

by **David Mast** » Tue, 27 Jan 1998 04:00:00

> I was thinking last night while doing
>some airline adventures in Flight Sim 98 that considering Greg's
>comments that 3DFX ruled the flight sim world, he couldn't run FS98 in
>the resolution I was, and after switching back to lower resolutions
>(640x480) to see how it looked, I was quite glad for higher resolution
>support.

While I agree the 3dfx has some disadvantages, especially in FS98, note that
you can run FS98 at 800x600 with the 3dfx. It is only limited to 640x480 in
games that use z-buffering. As to the rest of the flight sim world, currently
Greg is correct. The overwhelming support is for the 3dfx. If you want to
play the bleeding edge sims, including first releases of betas/demos, you
really want to have a 3dfx in your machine. F/A-18 Korea, Longbow2, JF3 are
three games with only 3dfx support. I believe EF2000 v2 only supports 3dfx
and Verite. The first test of WC:P was 3dfx-only (the release covered most).
iF16 3D enhancement is in beta-test as 3dfx only. The long-waited Falcon4 was
released as an early demo with 3dfx only. Lots of other demos were also
released as 3dfx only (F1: Racing Sim, for example, right?).

by **Greg Cisk** » Tue, 27 Jan 1998 04:00:00

>If you put a gun to my head I'd get 3DFX right now, too. But not a
>Rush chipset. I'd get a M3D as an add-on to the Riva board. The two

I guess you are not that bad after all :-)

You are right I wouldn't be able to go to higher resolutions. I also
would not be able to use any of the "windowing " features of FS98.
But I can live with that.

--
Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

by **Randy Magrud** » Wed, 28 Jan 1998 04:00:00

>While I agree the 3dfx has some disadvantages, especially in FS98, note that
>you can run FS98 at 800x600 with the 3dfx. It is only limited to 640x480 in
>games that use z-buffering.

Oh. no such limitation here :). I did run FS98 at 1024x768 and it
was pretty cool on my P300, but because my monitor still has lousy
refresh rates at that res I switched back rather than tolerate 60 Hz.

I don't disagree.

Randy

by **ymenar** » Wed, 28 Jan 1998 04:00:00

Byron Forbes wrote

Sorry to put my 0.02$ CAN into this but I just have a question about F1RS. I
have the same problem with my STB Velocity 128 AGP. Especially during rain.
There is black outlines everywhere. Anyone know how to fix this ?? I have
the STB driver 3.0 (the last one) with an utility (great one) called NV3
tweak v2.0a I have eliminated the glitch in Cart:PR and F1RS with this
utility btw...

Anyone knows how to fix that ? It's my only problem if we take out the
freezes I have each 30mins. I can't play F1RS, Quake2, Quake1, JediKnight,
all those games without that my PC freezes. It's kinda funny 'cause it's an
out-of-the-box DELL fresh and new. The 3last games are for my bro (sheesh
non-racing game <g>...). Btw this may helps but I only get the freezes when
I am in the***pit view in F1RS. Btw JediKnight in D3D is one of the best
looking game I ever saw.

I hope "somebody" will help...

* Fran?ois Mnard

* With great respect,
* May the downforce be with you,
* Good race at the Brickyard, (-o-)

* <ymenard> on NROS, sponsored by
* http://www.racesimcentral.net/
* SimRacing director, AWPSS

* Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
* Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking)
* Excuse me for my provocative posts and reply's <g>

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by **Denni** » Thu, 29 Jan 1998 04:00:00

>Byron Forbes wrote

>> F1RS looks a little cartoonish with my Viper mainly due to the black
>>outlines around trees and distant buildings. You can see from
>>screenshots how much better (realer) it looks without the ugly outlines.

>Sorry to put my 0.02$ CAN into this but I just have a question about F1RS.
I
>have the same problem with my STB Velocity 128 AGP. Especially during
rain.
>There is black outlines everywhere. Anyone know how to fix this ?? I have
>the STB driver 3.0 (the last one) with an utility (great one) called NV3
>tweak v2.0a I have eliminated the glitch in Cart:PR and F1RS with this
>utility btw...

>Anyone knows how to fix that ? It's my only problem if we take out the
>freezes I have each 30mins. I can't play F1RS, Quake2, Quake1, JediKnight,
>all those games without that my PC freezes. It's kinda funny 'cause it's
an
>out-of-the-box DELL fresh and new. The 3last games are for my bro (sheesh
>non-racing game <g>...). Btw this may helps but I only get the freezes
when
>I am in the***pit view in F1RS. Btw JediKnight in D3D is one of the best
>looking game I ever saw.

Easy. Get a 3DFX card. Seriously...

by **Antti Markus Pete** » Fri, 30 Jan 1998 04:00:00

With the exception of Longbow2, which had its Riva-specific patch
released last christmas. It's not a final version yet. Last version's
dated January 7th '98. Dl it from this location:

http://www.janes.ea.com/demos.html

"An alternate display driver providing Direct 3D support for Longbow 2
specifically for the Riva 128 chipset and the features it provides.
Again, this is only an alpha test, and the final version is forthcoming."

---
Antti Markus Peteri

"He was a bold man that first ate an oyster."

Jonathan Swift (1667-1745)
Polite Conversation, Dialogue I

by **Ronald Stoeh** » Fri, 30 Jan 1998 04:00:00

snip

> With the exception of Longbow2, which had its Riva-specific patch
> released last christmas. It's not a final version yet. Last version's
> dated January 7th '98. Dl it from this location:

> http://www.janes.ea.com/demos.html

> "An alternate display driver providing Direct 3D support for Longbow 2
> specifically for the Riva 128 chipset and the features it provides.
> Again, this is only an alpha test, and the final version is forthcoming."

Isn't it strange, how often a D3D port is announced with a specific 3D
card
being supported (XvT). Hmm, hardware independent APIs are fun...

l8er
ronny

--
|\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather,
ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep.
|,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car,
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

by **Antti Markus Pete** » Fri, 30 Jan 1998 04:00:00

Definitely fun. At least for RIVA owners, with D3D being RIVA's native
API. But seriously, I don't think it's that strange. Otoh, the patch may
work with other D3D cards (as they said) but they can't promise it'd work
with all of them. Maybe we'll have more detailed information with the
upcoming final release.

Anyways, they couldn't have settled down with just RIVA patch unless this
would already address a relatively large segment of the D3D market. Fun.

---
Antti Markus Peteri

"He was a bold man that first ate an oyster."

Jonathan Swift (1667-1745)
Polite Conversation, Dialogue I

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