Randy,
I guess you look at quantity and speed versus quality. The Riva can't
match the 3dfx for features and runs very fast. I don't want a board
that is deficient in quality. It sounds like Acer or Gateway bought a
bunch of em for the unwashed masses. When they see their friend's
games using 3dfx, they will see the difference.
Jeff Haas
Hi Randy,
I dont mean to change the subject but, the very point you bring up here has
always made me wonder about CPR. Seems like alot of folks with 3Dfx have
had very bad experiences with it. Then you have F1rs which I run on a STB
Velocity and it runs ok but I sure dont feel like its anything special. In
fact the graphics have always been cartoonish to me. Which is why yesterday
when you ( I think it was you) said you might just get a Monster to see if
F1rs is that much better, got me hoping you would and tell guys like me if
it was ;-)
Ok Aloha, Mike
P.S I still have total black in the tunnel at Monaco do you on your Riva?
----------
> Again, Longbow 2 was written and optimized for the 3DFX hardware
> architecture. Its not a ground-up version written for D3D or the
> Riva. Is it surprising that it doesn't look as good when running on
> an alternate API on ANY hardware?! No.
Joe
I also think that there should be a reference hardware platform of
"things thou must support". For instance, if Andy Hollis wants the
Riva to support 8-bit textures, the by golly, NVidia: SUPPORT 8-BIT
TEXTURES. The headache is not that the Riva is incapable of
outrunning a Voodoo, its that the hardware feature sets and software
API's are so disparate you STILL end up having to code everything from
the ground up for each board if you want optimal performance. Hollis
and his crew at Jane's did this for the 3DFX and now they are in a
situation where they would have to re-do their entire architecture if
they wanted a serious butt-kicking Longbow 2 on it. Its always the
developers that end up having to clean up the mess after hardware/API
developers don't standardize on something scalable, powerful, and
sharable.
Randy
Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> snip, snip, snip, call in the barber!
> NAS 2 - Longbow 2 - Nas 2 - Longbow 2 - Nas 2 - Longbow 2 -
>.........................
> SEE?
> PS - anyone got a bucket of water for these puppies chasing there
>tails round in circles?
Randy
Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com
Cheers!
Marc
--
Marc J. Nelson
Sim Racing News - http://www.simproject.com/simnews
<remove '*' before replying>
>>>Riva through D3D cannot do LB2 as well as Voodoo through Glide.
>Apparently not by being patched.
John
>>You are [deliberately?] misinterpreting what I wrote. I have no beef
>>with anyone who prefers 3DFX and thinks its the best....FOR THEM. I
>>*do* have a problem with the people who come online and try to shove
>>it down others' throats
>Except that's not what people have done, people have merely presented
>there opinions and backed them up with aaguments. YOU are the one
--
Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.
> Randy,
>I guess you look at quantity and speed versus quality.
Who says? What is it that Riva is missing that makes it
feature-deficient in your opinion?
The Riva boards have been selling since Q3 of last year, during which
time they racked up over a million sales. The drivers for these
boards are still VERY new. Please don't tell me that the first batch
of 3DFX drivers compares to what you can get NOW for that board. In
lifespan terms, Riva is still a baby. A baby with a lot of promise
and some teething pains, perhaps, but a baby nonetheless. A lot of
peoples' perceived "hardware faults" have already gone away as newer
drivers have been released, and more still will go away as new drivers
are released, newer versions of D3D come out with better support for
advanced 3D features, and developers begin architecting more with
boards like Riva in mind.
And by the way, I can point you at a bunch of screen grabs comparing
Glide 3DFX versions of games with those done with a Riva. They are
virtually indistinguishable. And I have to say when I had a
Hercules Stingray, I didn't see that it was all that special in visual
appearance running the various Glide demos.
Randy
Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com
My exact thought when reading your post. You will never learn. So
by all means, continue "presenting arguments" as you put it. Since
common sense indicates that belittling someone for failing to adopt
the 'only obvious' choice in 3D cards is not merely "presenting
arguments", and most people on Usenet *do* have some common sense, its
a waste of time for me to continue to argue this with you, since you
simply cannot (or will not) see it, though most others do.
Any further headings from you will be deleted unread, so don't bother
replying. I've wasted enough brain cells trying to make you listen
to reason.
Randy
Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com
>>Facts? I have probably forgotten more about flightsims than you know.
>Since you know absolutely zilch about my background, I'd stay off of
>this particularly dangerous quicksand if I were you. You don't know
>what you're starting.
OK I admit I was wrong. I freely am telling the world that there is indeed
an Alpha Riva version of LB2 which does not work anywhere near as
well as the 3dfx version. Phew...
Dodge? How so?
Congrats.
Great it should be a awesome review then.
I guess I am not sure what to make of this...
--
Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.
>No single game "proves" anything.
If I go out and get a crappy 3DFX
*Can you show me a game that looks worse through Glide? ..... didn't think
so
Of course not. Andy admitted
*This I find hard to believe due to the fact software company's have the
Hardware long before the public. I know that's gonna confuse you, but I
couldn't find smaller words :)
how much texture
**You see, this is what gets me. You spew about wanting technical details
and then you stick your head straight up your arse with the above kind of
tripe. Number 1, texture memory *should* benifit D3D and Riva because of the
way Riva offloads to system memory and the way D3D takes advantage of it.
Number 2, even with this apparent "one up" on the Voodoo it still runs like
crap. Why don't *you* provide me with technical info on why this is? Maybe
with newer versions of D3D drivers it will get better, but I highly doubt
it.
Unless you can provide some TECHNICAL
*I have a case, you have no ears. I'm not gonna sit here blabbing to you
until I'm blue in the face about "TECHNICAL" issues when it is readily
apparent you won't listen. But just to twist the thumb up your ass please
take notice of F22 and it's D3D acceleration versus it's Glide acceleration.
If it is not apparent to you then I don't know what anyone else could tell
you.
I could give a frogs water tight ass about your rejections. I provided the
above for your need of substance although I *know* that it just wont sink
in.
You see I really didn't want to get into a discussion with you for this very
reason. You never listen. You took the stance that the LB2 D3D issue was due
to it being a patch. I disagreed. You took exception to that and started
with your normal ***about wanting this that and the other thing. I'm not
gonna play this game with you. That dog ain't gonna hunt so to speak. As
much as I have enjoyed talking with you, and oh it's been fun, I feel I
should just end it here.
Take care Mr Mugruder ....
Outlaw
snip
> You know its kind of interesting how when MS comes out and says that
> Glide didn't offer any advantages for CPR when they tried it, they
> were blasted as being incompetent programmers and that the hardware
> was not the problem. When Andy Hollis of Janes comes out and says
> something negative about the Riva version of Longbow, its suddenly the
> hardware that's the problem (no possibility of it being that the
> developers aren't as hot with D3D hardware as they are with Glide?).
> I don't know who is right and who is wrong, but its certainly an
> interesting trend among those who endorse the 3DFX as the only viable
> 3D card.
What else could MS say? D3D stinks? Yeah, right!
l8er
ronny
--
|\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather,
ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep.
|,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car,
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!
>>Apparently not by being patched.
>** Nor can it by being written directly for D3D. Cart proves that beyound a
>doubt.
Flat wrong, huh? I reject your conclusions because you have provided
no substance to back them up.
Randy
Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com
