rec.autos.simulators

by **Marc Collin** » Sun, 04 Nov 2001 09:04:40

Hi,

I saw the MOMO at my local Costco today!! The leather wrapped wheel looks
and feels nice and the metal paddles are also very nice. The pedals are
articulated (like the Ferrari's), which I prefer, but many here seem to
dislike.

Sitting on the shelf, off, the wheel movement itself felt exactly the same
as the el-cheapo Formula Force right beside it. What exactly is the
difference internally between the two? What exactly is "premium" FFB?

The pedal travel looks incredibly short (compared to the Ferrari, anyway),
though the pedal platform looks great.

No shifter....... :(

All in all, it doesn't look like it is worth almost $100 Cdn more than the
Ferrari.

But for those who are experts (and who use GPL and N4--the only two sims so
far with accurate FFB)--how does it feel? What is the resolution on the
wheel and on each pedal? The Ferrari has fantastic high resolution on the
pedals, but half the resolution on the wheel of the MS wheel. I wonder what
the MOMO is?

Of course, it will take some tweaking to get it set-up in GPL, so I am
hoping people who have switched from the MS, Ferrari, or the old (good) Logi
will give us a very detailed blow-by-blow of the differences.

It is not only $100 extra, but you would have to buy the ActLABS shifter,
too, to replace the Ferrari. I disliked the Ferrari at first, but now that
I have finally got it set properly (not an intuitive process), it seems to
have the same amazing accuracy of the old Logi, with pedals a zillion times
better and a shifter. The only thing I would really change is the
resolution of the wheel...and maybe a few extra degrees of turning radius.

Oh...the red plastic looks a bit chintzy....I think black would have been
classier.

The Gamespot review was remarkably free of useful information or comparisons
for sim-heads, so I hope we can do our own here.

Thanks,

Marc.

--
****************************************************************************
Marc Collins

Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change
to take effect. Reboot now?
****************************************************************************

by **Tim** » Sun, 04 Nov 2001 21:17:31

I've never used the Ferrari wheel, but I own both a first generation
Wingman FF and a new MOMO.
In my opinion, the MOMO doesn't have as good a feel as the original
Wingman FF. I kind of bought mine on impulse, which was mostly due to
an error in logic... When I saw the MOMO on the shelf, I saw that it
had the larger old style Wingman FF housing, and jumped to the
conclusion that it was cable driven. It is not. It is a gear drive
unit like the new cheapie wheels, but has bearings on the shafts to
eliminate slop.
It's a good wheel, but not worth the premium, IMO.
It would be a deal for about $120 US.

Tim

On Fri, 2 Nov 2001 19:04:40 -0500, "Marc Collins"

>Hi,

>I saw the MOMO at my local Costco today!! The leather wrapped wheel looks
>and feels nice and the metal paddles are also very nice. The pedals are
>articulated (like the Ferrari's), which I prefer, but many here seem to
>dislike.

>Sitting on the shelf, off, the wheel movement itself felt exactly the same
>as the el-cheapo Formula Force right beside it. What exactly is the
>difference internally between the two? What exactly is "premium" FFB?

>The pedal travel looks incredibly short (compared to the Ferrari, anyway),
>though the pedal platform looks great.

>No shifter....... :(

>All in all, it doesn't look like it is worth almost $100 Cdn more than the
>Ferrari.

>But for those who are experts (and who use GPL and N4--the only two sims so
>far with accurate FFB)--how does it feel? What is the resolution on the
>wheel and on each pedal? The Ferrari has fantastic high resolution on the
>pedals, but half the resolution on the wheel of the MS wheel. I wonder what
>the MOMO is?

>Of course, it will take some tweaking to get it set-up in GPL, so I am
>hoping people who have switched from the MS, Ferrari, or the old (good) Logi
>will give us a very detailed blow-by-blow of the differences.

>It is not only $100 extra, but you would have to buy the ActLABS shifter,
>too, to replace the Ferrari. I disliked the Ferrari at first, but now that
>I have finally got it set properly (not an intuitive process), it seems to
>have the same amazing accuracy of the old Logi, with pedals a zillion times
>better and a shifter. The only thing I would really change is the
>resolution of the wheel...and maybe a few extra degrees of turning radius.

>Oh...the red plastic looks a bit chintzy....I think black would have been
>classier.

>The Gamespot review was remarkably free of useful information or comparisons
>for sim-heads, so I hope we can do our own here.

>Thanks,

>Marc.

by **BrianM** » Sun, 04 Nov 2001 22:17:17

Hi Marc,
How much did it cost at Costco? I'll go check the Costco's around Ottawa.
I've seen it online for about $270 CDN.

Thanks, Brian

****************************************************************************

> Marc Collins

> Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change
> to take effect. Reboot now?

****************************************************************************

- Show quoted text -

by **John Cauthe** » Sun, 04 Nov 2001 23:08:57

Oh noooo... I've got an older LWFF and I love it, but I realize its in its
death throws right now.

Double oh nooooo! Gear Driven!!?? What was Logitech thinking with this!?
That's the biggest selling point of the older LWFF over the GP, IMO.

I won't be pounding the pavement for one of these any time soon in that
case. I picked up a Force GP on E-Bay for $50 just to use with my PS2, and
it has told me a lot about gear driven force feedback :-( Yeah, if they get
down to the $120 range I might reconsider, but I'm not sure you could put
enough bearings around the shaft to mask that gritty gear driven force
feedback!

John

> Tim

> On Fri, 2 Nov 2001 19:04:40 -0500, "Marc Collins"

> >Hi,

> >I saw the MOMO at my local Costco today!! The leather wrapped wheel
looks
> >and feels nice and the metal paddles are also very nice. The pedals are
> >articulated (like the Ferrari's), which I prefer, but many here seem to
> >dislike.

> >Sitting on the shelf, off, the wheel movement itself felt exactly the
same
> >as the el-cheapo Formula Force right beside it. What exactly is the
> >difference internally between the two? What exactly is "premium" FFB?

> >The pedal travel looks incredibly short (compared to the Ferrari,
anyway),
> >though the pedal platform looks great.

> >No shifter....... :(

> >All in all, it doesn't look like it is worth almost $100 Cdn more than
the
> >Ferrari.

> >But for those who are experts (and who use GPL and N4--the only two sims
so
> >far with accurate FFB)--how does it feel? What is the resolution on the
> >wheel and on each pedal? The Ferrari has fantastic high resolution on
the
> >pedals, but half the resolution on the wheel of the MS wheel. I wonder
what
> >the MOMO is?

> >Of course, it will take some tweaking to get it set-up in GPL, so I am
> >hoping people who have switched from the MS, Ferrari, or the old (good)
Logi
> >will give us a very detailed blow-by-blow of the differences.

> >It is not only $100 extra, but you would have to buy the ActLABS shifter,
> >too, to replace the Ferrari. I disliked the Ferrari at first, but now
that
> >I have finally got it set properly (not an intuitive process), it seems
to
> >have the same amazing accuracy of the old Logi, with pedals a zillion
times
> >better and a shifter. The only thing I would really change is the
> >resolution of the wheel...and maybe a few extra degrees of turning
radius.

> >Oh...the red plastic looks a bit chintzy....I think black would have been
> >classier.

> >The Gamespot review was remarkably free of useful information or
comparisons
> >for sim-heads, so I hope we can do our own here.

> >Thanks,

> >Marc.

by **Marc Collin** » Sun, 04 Nov 2001 23:55:14

That seemed to be my impression, too. Can you return yours? Costco would
allow a return, but I somehow managed to resist the temptation this time!

Marc.

> I've never used the Ferrari wheel, but I own both a first generation
> Wingman FF and a new MOMO.
> In my opinion, the MOMO doesn't have as good a feel as the original
> Wingman FF. I kind of bought mine on impulse, which was mostly due to
> an error in logic... When I saw the MOMO on the shelf, I saw that it
> had the larger old style Wingman FF housing, and jumped to the
> conclusion that it was cable driven. It is not. It is a gear drive
> unit like the new cheapie wheels, but has bearings on the shafts to
> eliminate slop.
> It's a good wheel, but not worth the premium, IMO.
> It would be a deal for about $120 US.

> Tim

> On Fri, 2 Nov 2001 19:04:40 -0500, "Marc Collins"

> >Hi,

> >I saw the MOMO at my local Costco today!! The leather wrapped wheel
looks
> >and feels nice and the metal paddles are also very nice. The pedals are
> >articulated (like the Ferrari's), which I prefer, but many here seem to
> >dislike.

> >Sitting on the shelf, off, the wheel movement itself felt exactly the
same
> >as the el-cheapo Formula Force right beside it. What exactly is the
> >difference internally between the two? What exactly is "premium" FFB?

> >The pedal travel looks incredibly short (compared to the Ferrari,
anyway),
> >though the pedal platform looks great.

> >No shifter....... :(

> >All in all, it doesn't look like it is worth almost $100 Cdn more than
the
> >Ferrari.

> >But for those who are experts (and who use GPL and N4--the only two sims
so
> >far with accurate FFB)--how does it feel? What is the resolution on the
> >wheel and on each pedal? The Ferrari has fantastic high resolution on
the
> >pedals, but half the resolution on the wheel of the MS wheel. I wonder
what
> >the MOMO is?

> >Of course, it will take some tweaking to get it set-up in GPL, so I am
> >hoping people who have switched from the MS, Ferrari, or the old (good)
Logi
> >will give us a very detailed blow-by-blow of the differences.

> >It is not only $100 extra, but you would have to buy the ActLABS shifter,
> >too, to replace the Ferrari. I disliked the Ferrari at first, but now
that
> >I have finally got it set properly (not an intuitive process), it seems
to
> >have the same amazing accuracy of the old Logi, with pedals a zillion
times
> >better and a shifter. The only thing I would really change is the
> >resolution of the wheel...and maybe a few extra degrees of turning
radius.

> >Oh...the red plastic looks a bit chintzy....I think black would have been
> >classier.

> >The Gamespot review was remarkably free of useful information or
comparisons
> >for sim-heads, so I hope we can do our own here.

> >Thanks,

> >Marc.

by **Marc Collin** » Sun, 04 Nov 2001 23:56:13

$260. Mice and controllers and many software titles aren't much of a
bargain at Costco...unlike most other items.

Marc.

> Hi Marc,
> How much did it cost at Costco? I'll go check the Costco's around Ottawa.
> I've seen it online for about $270 CDN.

> Thanks, Brian

> > Hi,

> > I saw the MOMO at my local Costco today!! The leather wrapped wheel
looks
> > and feels nice and the metal paddles are also very nice. The pedals are
> > articulated (like the Ferrari's), which I prefer, but many here seem to
> > dislike.

> > Sitting on the shelf, off, the wheel movement itself felt exactly the
same
> > as the el-cheapo Formula Force right beside it. What exactly is the
> > difference internally between the two? What exactly is "premium" FFB?

> > The pedal travel looks incredibly short (compared to the Ferrari,
anyway),
> > though the pedal platform looks great.

> > No shifter....... :(

> > All in all, it doesn't look like it is worth almost $100 Cdn more than
the
> > Ferrari.

> > But for those who are experts (and who use GPL and N4--the only two sims
> so
> > far with accurate FFB)--how does it feel? What is the resolution on the
> > wheel and on each pedal? The Ferrari has fantastic high resolution on
the
> > pedals, but half the resolution on the wheel of the MS wheel. I wonder
> what
> > the MOMO is?

> > Of course, it will take some tweaking to get it set-up in GPL, so I am
> > hoping people who have switched from the MS, Ferrari, or the old (good)
> Logi
> > will give us a very detailed blow-by-blow of the differences.

> > It is not only $100 extra, but you would have to buy the ActLABS
shifter,
> > too, to replace the Ferrari. I disliked the Ferrari at first, but now
> that
> > I have finally got it set properly (not an intuitive process), it seems
to
> > have the same amazing accuracy of the old Logi, with pedals a zillion
> times
> > better and a shifter. The only thing I would really change is the
> > resolution of the wheel...and maybe a few extra degrees of turning
radius.

> > Oh...the red plastic looks a bit chintzy....I think black would have
been
> > classier.

> > The Gamespot review was remarkably free of useful information or
> comparisons
> > for sim-heads, so I hope we can do our own here.

> > Thanks,

> > Marc.

> > --

****************************************************************************

> > Marc Collins

> > Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change
> > to take effect. Reboot now?

****************************************************************************

- Show quoted text -

by **Bart Westr** » Mon, 05 Nov 2001 06:32:37

> > I've never used the Ferrari wheel, but I own both a first generation
> > Wingman FF and a new MOMO.
> > In my opinion, the MOMO doesn't have as good a feel as the original
> > Wingman FF.

> Oh noooo... I've got an older LWFF and I love it, but I realize its in its
> death throws right now.

> > I kind of bought mine on impulse, which was mostly due to
> > an error in logic... When I saw the MOMO on the shelf, I saw that it
> > had the larger old style Wingman FF housing, and jumped to the
> > conclusion that it was cable driven. It is not. It is a gear drive

> Double oh nooooo! Gear Driven!!?? What was Logitech thinking with this!?
> That's the biggest selling point of the older LWFF over the GP, IMO.

> > unit like the new cheapie wheels, but has bearings on the shafts to
> > eliminate slop.
> > It's a good wheel, but not worth the premium, IMO.
> > It would be a deal for about $120 US.

> I won't be pounding the pavement for one of these any time soon in that
> case. I picked up a Force GP on E-Bay for $50 just to use with my PS2,
and
> it has told me a lot about gear driven force feedback :-( Yeah, if they
get
> down to the $120 range I might reconsider, but I'm not sure you could put
> enough bearings around the shaft to mask that gritty gear driven force
> feedback!

> John

You are not in a position to comment if you dont own one or know one.

Bart Westra

by **Klin** » Mon, 05 Nov 2001 07:04:40

Check http://www.dealdirect.ca . They have it for CDN $248.85 as a 'special
order' - I think that means they don't carry it in stock, but will bring one
in for you. They have an Ottawa store just east of Beacon Heights at 5370
Canotek Road.

...Klinn

by **Bart Westr** » Mon, 05 Nov 2001 07:29:47

I am not aware of that. They are about equal to the MSFF pedals in my
experience which are regarded as good pedals by most.

The feel while driving is quite different from what you feel when no game is
running; also the gears need to be "rubbed in". I own a MSFF as well and
that took about two weeks to rub in. Premium FFB, I don't know who says so,
Logitech? Anyway the wheel movement is very precise and so is the FFB. Not
hard to imagine that the ball bearings help to transmit the FF to the
players hand. Then the FF is quite powerfull and capable of both smooth and
*** actions.

See above.

Two levers with a very nice feel that you can reach in any position :)

Definitely worth the investment.

You must have missed out on GP3.

--how does it feel?

It feels great :)

What is the resolution on the

Wheel 1024, pedals 255 each.

I run it now with the Papy defaults for the msff (lat 0.035, damping 30, max
force 450). Perhaps because that is what I am used to. In the settings
overall force at 100% and damping at 80%.

If you like it so much, why look at other options?

Bart Westra

by **Tim** » Mon, 05 Nov 2001 08:04:44

On Sat, 3 Nov 2001 09:55:14 -0500, "Marc Collins"

>That seemed to be my impression, too. Can you return yours? Costco would
>allow a return, but I somehow managed to resist the temptation this time!

I'll keep the MOMO because it's not a horrible thing... The forces are
good and strong and I like the shape of the wheel grip itself, it
just doesn't have the great feel of the cable drive IMO.
My original Wingman FF is about 2 years old now, and it's going to be
a sad day when it finally craps out.

Tim

by **John Cauthe** » Mon, 05 Nov 2001 09:48:31

> > > I've never used the Ferrari wheel, but I own both a first generation
> > > Wingman FF and a new MOMO.
> > > In my opinion, the MOMO doesn't have as good a feel as the original
> > > Wingman FF.

> > Oh noooo... I've got an older LWFF and I love it, but I realize its in
its
> > death throws right now.

> > > I kind of bought mine on impulse, which was mostly due to
> > > an error in logic... When I saw the MOMO on the shelf, I saw that it
> > > had the larger old style Wingman FF housing, and jumped to the
> > > conclusion that it was cable driven. It is not. It is a gear drive

> > Double oh nooooo! Gear Driven!!?? What was Logitech thinking with
this!?
> > That's the biggest selling point of the older LWFF over the GP, IMO.

> > > unit like the new cheapie wheels, but has bearings on the shafts to
> > > eliminate slop.
> > > It's a good wheel, but not worth the premium, IMO.
> > > It would be a deal for about $120 US.

> > I won't be pounding the pavement for one of these any time soon in that
> > case. I picked up a Force GP on E-Bay for $50 just to use with my PS2,
> and
> > it has told me a lot about gear driven force feedback :-( Yeah, if they
> get
> > down to the $120 range I might reconsider, but I'm not sure you could
put
> > enough bearings around the shaft to mask that gritty gear driven force
> > feedback!

> > John

> You are not in a position to comment if you dont own one or know one.

Bart,

What you are saying is true up to a point, but I have now heard from a MOMO
owner who tells me that he still feels this gritty meshing of the gear
drive, although it's not as obvious as the GP. I guess I'll have to put my
hands on one to make a call one way or the other. When I do I'll come back
and make a more informed comment ;-)

Thanks for weighing in!

by **Andre Warring** » Mon, 05 Nov 2001 09:51:27

Yes you can, the Momo proves it. The LWGP was a crappy low budget
wheel, you can't compare it to a gear driven wheel with ball bearings.

Andre

by **John Cauthe** » Mon, 05 Nov 2001 14:06:26

Thanks for your take on this Andre... that's the kind of news I'm hoping to
hear! I just hope I get to test drive one soon.

John

by **Bart Westr** » Mon, 05 Nov 2001 17:03:37

> > You are not in a position to comment if you dont own one or know one.

> Bart,

> What you are saying is true up to a point, but I have now heard from a
MOMO
> owner who tells me that he still feels this gritty meshing of the gear
> drive, although it's not as obvious as the GP. I guess I'll have to put
my
> hands on one to make a call one way or the other. When I do I'll come
back
> and make a more informed comment ;-)

> Thanks for weighing in!

Hi John,

The best way is to wait a couple of weeks for your friend to "exercise" the
wheel and then try his :)
Besides smoothing the gears there will also be the effect of getting used to
it, and not noticing every detail after a while. For example the MSFF has
quite a bit of play (you can wiggle the wheel) that worried me for some
time, but now I don't notice it at all.

Bart

by **Joe Marque** » Tue, 06 Nov 2001 02:01:14

Agreed, the MOMO is infinitely better than the GP. Just because they are
both gear driven, and for the GP this made it inferior, doesn't
automatically mean the MOMO is also inferior. It's far more precise and
solid feeling than the cable driven LWFF. I'm very pleased.

--
Joe Marques

rec.autos.simulators

Logi MOMO Wheel Comparison....please!

Logi MOMO Wheel Comparison....please!

Logi MOMO Wheel Comparison....please!

Logi MOMO Wheel Comparison....please!

Logi MOMO Wheel Comparison....please!

Logi MOMO Wheel Comparison....please!

Logi MOMO Wheel Comparison....please!

Logi MOMO Wheel Comparison....please!

Logi MOMO Wheel Comparison....please!

Logi MOMO Wheel Comparison....please!

Logi MOMO Wheel Comparison....please!

Logi MOMO Wheel Comparison....please!

Logi MOMO Wheel Comparison....please!

Logi MOMO Wheel Comparison....please!

Logi MOMO Wheel Comparison....please!

Logi MOMO Wheel Comparison....please!