Brian
> > Hi Marc,
> > How much did it cost at Costco? I'll go check the Costco's around
Ottawa.
> > I've seen it online for about $270 CDN.
> > Thanks, Brian
> Check http://www.racesimcentral.net/ . They have it for CDN $248.85 as a
'special
> order' - I think that means they don't carry it in stock, but will bring
one
> in for you. They have an Ottawa store just east of Beacon Heights at 5370
> Canotek Road.
> ...Klinn
You can feel the difference the bearings make. The FF is smooth as glass.
The pedals, well, they will take getting used to...
-Larry
> Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change
***************************************************************************
> Marc Collins ***************************************************************************
> to take effect. Reboot now?
This is NOT a Force GP wheel. Not in the least.
-Larry
> > > > I've never used the Ferrari wheel, but I own both a first generation
> > > > Wingman FF and a new MOMO.
> > > > In my opinion, the MOMO doesn't have as good a feel as the original
> > > > Wingman FF.
> > > Oh noooo... I've got an older LWFF and I love it, but I realize its in
> its
> > > death throws right now.
> > > > I kind of bought mine on impulse, which was mostly due to
> > > > an error in logic... When I saw the MOMO on the shelf, I saw that it
> > > > had the larger old style Wingman FF housing, and jumped to the
> > > > conclusion that it was cable driven. It is not. It is a gear drive
> > > Double oh nooooo! Gear Driven!!?? What was Logitech thinking with
> this!?
> > > That's the biggest selling point of the older LWFF over the GP, IMO.
> > > > unit like the new cheapie wheels, but has bearings on the shafts to
> > > > eliminate slop.
> > > > It's a good wheel, but not worth the premium, IMO.
> > > > It would be a deal for about $120 US.
> > > I won't be pounding the pavement for one of these any time soon in
that
> > > case. I picked up a Force GP on E-Bay for $50 just to use with my
PS2,
> > and
> > > it has told me a lot about gear driven force feedback :-( Yeah, if
they
> > get
> > > down to the $120 range I might reconsider, but I'm not sure you could
> put
> > > enough bearings around the shaft to mask that gritty gear driven force
> > > feedback!
> > > John
> > You are not in a position to comment if you dont own one or know one.
> Bart,
> What you are saying is true up to a point, but I have now heard from a
MOMO
> owner who tells me that he still feels this gritty meshing of the gear
> drive, although it's not as obvious as the GP. I guess I'll have to put
my
> hands on one to make a call one way or the other. When I do I'll come
back
> and make a more informed comment ;-)
> Thanks for weighing in!
>This is NOT a Force GP wheel. Not in the least.
As you said Larry, you can't compare the Momo and LWGP. Totally
different market, totally different wheels.
Andre
The Momo has NONE of the cheap feel of the Force GP. It is firm and solid.
This is the first wheel I've ever owned that has had ZERO 'wobble' on the
steering shaft. None. Nada. I'm sure this has to be due to the fully
bearing shaft.
I think the Wheel itself is pretty much perfect. However, the 'system'
could be better in the following two area's:
1. The pedals. Moving from the MSFFW, the Momo pedals are too small, have
too little travel, and are too uncomfortable. I'll adapt, but my braking
skills are all screwed up right now.
2. The cable that goes to the wheel is too short.
You know, these are the two things that are done wrong, again and again,
time after time, by most of the controller makers. Why the hell can't they
get it right?
-Larry
> > I've never used the Ferrari wheel, but I own both a first generation
> > Wingman FF and a new MOMO.
> > In my opinion, the MOMO doesn't have as good a feel as the original
> > Wingman FF.
> Oh noooo... I've got an older LWFF and I love it, but I realize its in its
> death throws right now.
> > I kind of bought mine on impulse, which was mostly due to
> > an error in logic... When I saw the MOMO on the shelf, I saw that it
> > had the larger old style Wingman FF housing, and jumped to the
> > conclusion that it was cable driven. It is not. It is a gear drive
> Double oh nooooo! Gear Driven!!?? What was Logitech thinking with this!?
> That's the biggest selling point of the older LWFF over the GP, IMO.
> > unit like the new cheapie wheels, but has bearings on the shafts to
> > eliminate slop.
> > It's a good wheel, but not worth the premium, IMO.
> > It would be a deal for about $120 US.
> I won't be pounding the pavement for one of these any time soon in that
> case. I picked up a Force GP on E-Bay for $50 just to use with my PS2,
and
> it has told me a lot about gear driven force feedback :-( Yeah, if they
get
> down to the $120 range I might reconsider, but I'm not sure you could put
> enough bearings around the shaft to mask that gritty gear driven force
> feedback!
> John
> > Tim
> > On Fri, 2 Nov 2001 19:04:40 -0500, "Marc Collins"
> > >Hi,
> > >I saw the MOMO at my local Costco today!! The leather wrapped wheel
> looks
> > >and feels nice and the metal paddles are also very nice. The pedals
are
> > >articulated (like the Ferrari's), which I prefer, but many here seem to
> > >dislike.
> > >Sitting on the shelf, off, the wheel movement itself felt exactly the
> same
> > >as the el-cheapo Formula Force right beside it. What exactly is the
> > >difference internally between the two? What exactly is "premium" FFB?
> > >The pedal travel looks incredibly short (compared to the Ferrari,
> anyway),
> > >though the pedal platform looks great.
> > >No shifter....... :(
> > >All in all, it doesn't look like it is worth almost $100 Cdn more than
> the
> > >Ferrari.
> > >But for those who are experts (and who use GPL and N4--the only two
sims
> so
> > >far with accurate FFB)--how does it feel? What is the resolution on
the
> > >wheel and on each pedal? The Ferrari has fantastic high resolution on
> the
> > >pedals, but half the resolution on the wheel of the MS wheel. I wonder
> what
> > >the MOMO is?
> > >Of course, it will take some tweaking to get it set-up in GPL, so I am
> > >hoping people who have switched from the MS, Ferrari, or the old (good)
> Logi
> > >will give us a very detailed blow-by-blow of the differences.
> > >It is not only $100 extra, but you would have to buy the ActLABS
shifter,
> > >too, to replace the Ferrari. I disliked the Ferrari at first, but now
> that
> > >I have finally got it set properly (not an intuitive process), it seems
> to
> > >have the same amazing accuracy of the old Logi, with pedals a zillion
> times
> > >better and a shifter. The only thing I would really change is the
> > >resolution of the wheel...and maybe a few extra degrees of turning
> radius.
> > >Oh...the red plastic looks a bit chintzy....I think black would have
been
> > >classier.
> > >The Gamespot review was remarkably free of useful information or
> comparisons
> > >for sim-heads, so I hope we can do our own here.
> > >Thanks,
> > >Marc.
Cya
JensSchumi
GPLRank: -14.82
Monsters of GPL: sub 95
It's not just ball bearings...
Logitech really should have used a differnet outer case to prevent this
mis-conception...
-Larry
> Cya
> JensSchumi
> >As has been stated again and again, the Force GP and Momo wheels do NOT
use
> >the same gear-drive assembly.
> <snip>
> ---------------------------------------------
> LWFF Ball Bearing conversion at:
> http://jensschumi.tripod.com/
> GPLRank: -14.82
> Monsters of GPL: sub 95
JensSchumi
BTW: The casing is an old LWFF look-alike, so no confusion with the GP possible.
>It's not just ball bearings...
>Logitech really should have used a differnet outer case to prevent this
>mis-conception...
>-Larry
GPLRank: -14.82
Monsters of GPL: sub 95
Andre
>BTW: The casing is an old LWFF look-alike, so no confusion with the GP possible.
>>The Force GP and the Momo do NOT use the same internals. They are
>>completely different wheels.
>>It's not just ball bearings...
>>Logitech really should have used a differnet outer case to prevent this
>>mis-conception...
>>-Larry
>---------------------------------------------
>LWFF Ball Bearing conversion at:
>http://jensschumi.tripod.com/
>GPLRank: -14.82
>Monsters of GPL: sub 95
-Larry
> JensSchumi
> BTW: The casing is an old LWFF look-alike, so no confusion with the GP
possible.
> >The Force GP and the Momo do NOT use the same internals. They are
> >completely different wheels.
> >It's not just ball bearings...
> >Logitech really should have used a differnet outer case to prevent this
> >mis-conception...
> >-Larry
> ---------------------------------------------
> LWFF Ball Bearing conversion at:
> http://jensschumi.tripod.com/
> GPLRank: -14.82
> Monsters of GPL: sub 95
-Larry
> >Are you sure?
> Indeed.. I wondered the same. I do think they use the same internals,
> only the momo is (majorly) improved with the ball bearings.
> Tom, if you read this, any info about this?
> Andre
> >JensSchumi
> >BTW: The casing is an old LWFF look-alike, so no confusion with the GP
possible.
> >>The Force GP and the Momo do NOT use the same internals. They are
> >>completely different wheels.
> >>It's not just ball bearings...
> >>Logitech really should have used a differnet outer case to prevent this
> >>mis-conception...
> >>-Larry
> >---------------------------------------------
> >LWFF Ball Bearing conversion at:
> >http://jensschumi.tripod.com/
> >GPLRank: -14.82
> >Monsters of GPL: sub 95
Larry, I know from my own experience what difference is between a wheel (old
LWFF) with slacky plastic bushings and the same wheel with ball bearings. The
difference is so incredible that you really think you have a another wheel.
I didn't look into the GP or the MOMO yet, so I can only suspect that Logitech
used the existing core for the Momo. For me this makes sense.
Cya
Jens
>-Larry
GPLRank: -14.82
Monsters of GPL: sub 95
-Larry
> Larry, I know from my own experience what difference is between a wheel
(old
> LWFF) with slacky plastic bushings and the same wheel with ball bearings.
The
> difference is so incredible that you really think you have a another
wheel.
> I didn't look into the GP or the MOMO yet, so I can only suspect that
Logitech
> used the existing core for the Momo. For me this makes sense.
> Cya
> Jens
> >It's my understanding that the gear system and FF drive motors are also
> >quite different.
> >-Larry
> ---------------------------------------------
> LWFF Ball Bearing conversion at:
> http://jensschumi.tripod.com/
> GPLRank: -14.82
> Monsters of GPL: sub 95
Jens
>-Larry
GPLRank: -14.82
Monsters of GPL: sub 95
> Jens
> >You really should visit www.wingmanteam.com and their discussion
server...
> >-Larry
> ---------------------------------------------
> LWFF Ball Bearing conversion at:
> http://jensschumi.tripod.com/
> GPLRank: -14.82
> Monsters of GPL: sub 95
