rec.autos.simulators

by **John Bod** » Sun, 30 May 1999 04:00:00

>> Of interest to all you sim fans, I noticed that on the Indianapolis
>> Motor Speedway add-on track for GP2 (a version of the existing oval,
>> not a new road course add-on), I could only get the GP2 F1 cars to top
>> out at about 188 mph, even with the wings zeroed out. I thought this
>> was weird, but when I heard the predicted top end for the F1 cars from
>> the folks at IMS, I really had to chuckle -- and I was stunned at how
>> AMAZINGLY accurate the F1 cars in the GP2 sim had to be in order to
>> properly model the top end of the F1 cars at a track configuration
>> that wasn't even taken into account when the sim was developed. And
>> GP2 is a fairly "old" sim, too. Wow.

>> BTW, it's nice to be able to put aside all the IRL vs. CART feud for a
>> moment to share some race- and race sim-related info with fellow fans.
>> We should try doing that more often.

>> ;-)

>> -- JB

> John, you must have the version of GP2 distributed by the IRL.
>Complete garbage. I think we can look on most of your posts as simple
>comedy after this one. At least your consistant.

"Complete garbage"?? What the hell are you talking about? Have you
ever checked out the IMS track that somebody made with the GP2 game?
This wasn't an official retail track "add-on," but something somebody
did on their own as a track editing exercise, I believe. On THAT
track, I was never able to get the F1 cars in GP2 to go over 200 mph.
Have you tried this track and received better results? I viewed the
Indy track for GP2 as a mere novelty and I never spent much time with
it, so there may have been more speed to be had, but with the wings
zeroed out and no need to lift off the throttle in the turns, I didn't
see much room for more speed, and I wasn't able to do any better. If
you have achieved better results at the Indy "fantasy" add-on track
with GP2, I'd love to hear about it. If not, then try this:

Feel free to insert your penile appendage into your rectal area and
proceed to have *** with yourself.

You want comedy -- THAT's comedy (albeit perhaps not "simple" enough
for your taste).

-- JB

by **John Bod** » Sun, 30 May 1999 04:00:00

>> >You want CART? You've got CART. You want NASCAR? You've got it.
>> >You want varsity, JV, megabucks or spec racers, you have it all. And
>> >you have more choices today than you did before the formation of the
>> >IRL (plus, those loud engines are really cool)

>> AMEN!

> More like... ahem! Because what we don't have is the best drivers, in
>the best cars on the most exciting track in the world. I'll bet you lot
>were on the Microsoft side of the fence when CPR was released.

> Simple question - Would it be preferable that the IRL never came
>into being and Indy was STILL what it WAS?

> My very simple, no brainer answer is FOR FRIGGIN SURE. And my very
>simple, no brainer conclusion about those who have a different answer is
>that they obviously have a*** in their ear. It's 2nd rate drivers in
>2nd rate cars and it's just that simple. The rest is bullshit.

Well, Byron, I'd expect nothing less than a simple, no-brainer answer
from you, so at least you're consistent. FWIW, I'd wash that thing
before putting it in my ear if I were you -- especially if you
followed my previous recommendation about your rectal area.

-- JB

by **Chuck Kandle** » Mon, 31 May 1999 04:00:00

> Simple question - Would it be preferable that the IRL never came
> into being and Indy was STILL what it WAS?

> My very simple, no brainer answer is FOR FRIGGIN SURE. And my very
> simple, no brainer conclusion about those who have a different answer is
> that they obviously have a*** in their ear. It's 2nd rate drivers in
> 2nd rate cars and it's just that simple. The rest is bullshit.

Its gotta be said. AMEN, BYRON!!

--

Chuck Kandler #70
K&S Racing
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Unarmed & unafraid!

by **Chuck Kandle** » Mon, 31 May 1999 04:00:00

> So CART's a closed series, too, huh? It must be, because I don't
> think an IRL team could show up and qualify their IRL machines. Ditto
> an F1 team.

> Geez . . .

C'mon now! This one might make sense if the discussion was on individual series'.
Its not. Its about *ONE* legendary race. I think David Brower more had the idea.
Bring em all, bring what ya got. The 33 quickest are in. The rest- SEE YA! Thats
the way is used to be, & should still be.

Sheeesh!

--
Chuck Kandler #70
K&S Racing
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195
Unarmed & unafraid!

by **John Bod** » Mon, 31 May 1999 04:00:00

>On Fri, 28 May 1999 11:35:57 GMT,

>>With a predicted 180 mph top speed on the front straight, my guess is
>>the F1 guys would get THEIR butts kicked! <G>

>uhhh.. John, I laugh in your general direction..

Okay, I stand corrected -- looks like I mis-heard the 180 mph top
speed remark. It seems the F1 cars should reach a top speed of 200
mph on the front straight. This is according to the Speedway's
director of engineering and construction, Kevin Forbes (who designed
the Indy F1 track). This is from the Indy F1 Web site
(www.indyf1.com):

<SNIP>

Forbes calculated through computer imaging that an F1 car can circle
the circuit in 73 seconds, a speed average of 127 mph. Billy Boat
completed the quickest qualifying lap for the 1998 Indianapolis 500 on
the oval last May in 40.076 seconds at 224.573 mph, a record for Pep
Boys Indy Racing League cars.

F1 cars are expected to reach 195 mph at the Yard of Bricks and a top
speed of 200 mph just before entrance to their Turn 1. The drivers
will have to gear down to 55 mph at Turn 9, a right-hand turn just
south of the golf course and will re-enter the oval over Tunnel 3,
located at the entrance of Turn 2, at 100 mph and begin accelerating.

It looks like the F1 cars might be able to top 200 with their current
aero package if they were given the entire oval to build up speed for
an entire lap. THAT'S something I'd like to see!

-- JB

by **Byron Forbe** » Mon, 31 May 1999 04:00:00

Your like David Fisher with a REAL mean streak! Weird.

> Feel free to insert your penile appendage into your rectal area and
> proceed to have *** with yourself.

> You want comedy -- THAT's comedy (albeit perhaps not "simple" enough
> for your taste).

> -- JB

by **John Bod** » Mon, 31 May 1999 04:00:00

Okay, I admit that I was out of line, and I'd like to apologize to you
for that. Your remarks about my post being "complete garbage" and
that my posts could be regarded as "simple comedy" really ticked me
off. I was trying to share some inside info about the F1 course that
the rest of you might be interested in, along with some firsthand
experience with GP2 and the fantasy Indianapolis Motor Speedway add-on
track. Given the fact that I was merely sharing information and not
attacking any series, drivers, owners, fans, or fellow newsgroup
members, I took offense at your comments. I got a little reactionary
(being an IRL fan makes one somewhat defensive at times), and for that
I apologize. I was out of line, and I'm sorry for being such an ass.

One of the reasons I get so testy, though, is because no matter how
respectful I try to be of other series -- INCLUDING CART -- there's
always somebody waiting to shove some vile sentiment about the IRL
down my throat. It's frustrating to say the least.

At any rate, I'll be sitting in the stands (and cruising through the
garages and the press room) at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway today,
and drivers will be racing pointy-nosed cars around the Brickyard for
the right to get their face on the Borg-Warner Trophy, so for me, it's
a bit like Christmas morning. Merry Christmas everybody -- and peace
on earth, goodwill towards men (and women) . . . and CART fans <G>, as
well as all race fans everywhere.

May we have safe racing today everywhere there are cars running fast
in competition.

Oh, yeah -- happy Memorial Day (a day early). No matter what you do
this weekend, take a moment to remember the reason for the holiday.

-- JB

>> Feel free to insert your penile appendage into your rectal area and
>> proceed to have *** with yourself.

>> You want comedy -- THAT's comedy (albeit perhaps not "simple" enough
>> for your taste).

>> -- JB

by **Diamondcutt** » Tue, 01 Jun 1999 04:00:00

It's amazing what can happen in a week. I've been lurking here for a
couple weeks and was impressed with the quality and caliber of the
posts and the thinking behind them, especially in regard to the
lengthy N2000/N3/GPL physics engine posts. There was plenty of
carefully considered, thoughtful insight and the kind of things that
(as I was telling some friends) that Papyrus should be paying
attention to. "Damn," I said, "these guys are smart. They're my kind
of people."

Now, a week later, this community discussion thread has become "if you
don't agree with me, you are stupid, have a *** in your ear
(whatever that means) and nyah nyah nyah.

What happened? I'll probably continue lurking because there is some
decent information but the respect level dropped down a notch or two
on my part . . . and probably lots of others who visit here as well.

I love racing. I like the Indy 500 and would probably watch if the
drivers were Brownie Troop 356 being rewarded for their cookie sales
with a ride on a sunny Sunday. I like CART. I like NASCAR. I
support the Sim companies with my purchases, I support the leagues
with ticket sales and I support the sponsors with my pocketbook and
with letters saying "I buy your products because you support racing."

So if I disagree with your sanctimonious ideals and therefore have a
*** in my ear, so be it. Dick or not, I can still strap my helmet on
and bang wheels on the raccetrack and on the sims, too (but without
the helmet :))

We're all here for the same thing. fast cars.

-the Diamondcutter

>[A newbie to this group weighing in]
>You all sound like a bunch of youngsters who think the CART era was
>the beginning of the Indianapolis 500.

>In fact, it has a long, rich history of being a "run-what-ya-brung"
>race (NOT a series). Drivers who could convince a car owner to allow
>them to race showed up in droves at the track in the month before the
>500 and there weren't many guarantees about whether they would get
>rides or not. (BTW that was happening in Gasoline Alley last weekend
>as well)

>Many of these drivers were right out of the USAC dirt tracks and other
>minor-league oval races. The engineers labored all winter on their
>innovative cars (diesel, front wheel drive, all wheel drive, turbine)
>and went to scout for drivers in May.

>It wasn't until the 1970s that Pat Patrick, Penske et al. declared the
>Indycar formula and turned it into a series with the 500 as its crown
>jewel.

>Tony George (God bless him) wrestled the Indy 500 away from the money
>interests and the multi-megabuck teams and made it into a series where
>the up-and-coming drivers (mostly Americans) would get the experience
>and exposure to race at "Racing's Greatest Spectacle."

>I attended the IRL race at Phoenix this year and was at Indy
>qualifications last week. Yes, they DO race like the junior varsity
>because they are . . . just like about 75% of those drivers whose
>faces appear on the Bendix trophy.

>You want to see the heritage of the Indy 500, racing the way it used
>to be or the way the commercial interests of the big $$ boys want you
>to? IRL has got that heritage. CART appears to be a steppingstone
>series to F1.

>(BTW, do any of you remember racers like Mario Andretti, Dan Gurney
>and Jackie Stewart racing at Indy, NASCAR, F1 and anyplace they could
>get a ride? If you want to see the REAL heroes of racing, the real
>drivers, look at the entry lists from the 1960s)

>I love NASCAR, even though it is starting to look more staged than WWF
>wrestling. I am lukewarm on CART but IRL is the one place where you
>can say "I saw them there first."

>-the Diamondcutter

>99 Dodge Ram 1500 QC 5.2L Sport
>98 Swiss-Hutless/Yamaha KT100 racing kart
>96 Invader/Briggs racing kart

>On Tue, 18 May 1999 23:50:30 -0400, "Scott B. Husted"

><SNIP>

>>> On Tue, 18 May 1999 13:42:01 GMT, "Scott B. Husted"

>>> >Winning $$$$ does not make it prestigious when you are competing against
>>> >has been and never was drivers.

>>So what you are saying is that IRL drivers are just collecting money at Indy
>>because 99% of them dont have the talent to compete in a "real" series??
>>"Ill stay in the IRL so I can compete and make money because I dont have
>>enough talent to run in CART and its top notch talent." ???

by **John Bod** » Tue, 01 Jun 1999 04:00:00

Amen!

I think what we're dealing with on the IRL/CART issue is passionate
people who are too lazy to post in the RASI newsgroup, where these
sort of passionate -- and sometimes venomous -- racing-related (NOT
sim-related) posts should go. I'm as responsible as anyone for
"rising to the occasion" and responding to the various IRL slights,
and for that I apologize.

This IS a great place for sim-related info, so don't be turned off by
B.S. along these lines.

The IRL is a wonderful series, and the drivers are as brave and as
talented at what they do as the drivers in any other series. I also
feel the same about CART, F1, NASCAR, et al -- even if I may not
prefer all the various forms offered by different series, I realize
that it's the diversity that makes the racing world such a wonderful
place. More racing is better, and to each his (or her) own. As for
the various series, anybody who risks life and limb behind the wheel
of a racecar deserves at least a small modicum of respect from us
armchair (or desktop) racers. It ticks me off when others don't
afford those brave souls the respect they all deserve, but in the
future, I'm going to do my best to stew in private, rather than vent
her in public -- especially since these type of threads are VERY
off-topic for this particular newsgroup.

FWIW, I avoid RASI these days specifically because it's a breeding
ground for this type of bashing and negativity, and I'd hate to see
the RAS newsgroup become more of the same.

Again, my apologies to all for helping take it to that level.

-- John Bodin
Publisher, The IRL Insider Magazine
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

- Show quoted text -

>>[A newbie to this group weighing in]
>>You all sound like a bunch of youngsters who think the CART era was
>>the beginning of the Indianapolis 500.

>>In fact, it has a long, rich history of being a "run-what-ya-brung"
>>race (NOT a series). Drivers who could convince a car owner to allow
>>them to race showed up in droves at the track in the month before the
>>500 and there weren't many guarantees about whether they would get
>>rides or not. (BTW that was happening in Gasoline Alley last weekend
>>as well)

>>Many of these drivers were right out of the USAC dirt tracks and other
>>minor-league oval races. The engineers labored all winter on their
>>innovative cars (diesel, front wheel drive, all wheel drive, turbine)
>>and went to scout for drivers in May.

>>It wasn't until the 1970s that Pat Patrick, Penske et al. declared the
>>Indycar formula and turned it into a series with the 500 as its crown
>>jewel.

>>Tony George (God bless him) wrestled the Indy 500 away from the money
>>interests and the multi-megabuck teams and made it into a series where
>>the up-and-coming drivers (mostly Americans) would get the experience
>>and exposure to race at "Racing's Greatest Spectacle."

>>I attended the IRL race at Phoenix this year and was at Indy
>>qualifications last week. Yes, they DO race like the junior varsity
>>because they are . . . just like about 75% of those drivers whose
>>faces appear on the Bendix trophy.

>>You want to see the heritage of the Indy 500, racing the way it used
>>to be or the way the commercial interests of the big $$ boys want you
>>to? IRL has got that heritage. CART appears to be a steppingstone
>>series to F1.

>>(BTW, do any of you remember racers like Mario Andretti, Dan Gurney
>>and Jackie Stewart racing at Indy, NASCAR, F1 and anyplace they could
>>get a ride? If you want to see the REAL heroes of racing, the real
>>drivers, look at the entry lists from the 1960s)

>>I love NASCAR, even though it is starting to look more staged than WWF
>>wrestling. I am lukewarm on CART but IRL is the one place where you
>>can say "I saw them there first."

>>-the Diamondcutter

>>99 Dodge Ram 1500 QC 5.2L Sport
>>98 Swiss-Hutless/Yamaha KT100 racing kart
>>96 Invader/Briggs racing kart

>>On Tue, 18 May 1999 23:50:30 -0400, "Scott B. Husted"

>><SNIP>

>>>> On Tue, 18 May 1999 13:42:01 GMT, "Scott B. Husted"

>>>> >Winning $$$$ does not make it prestigious when you are competing against
>>>> >has been and never was drivers.

>>>So what you are saying is that IRL drivers are just collecting money at Indy
>>>because 99% of them dont have the talent to compete in a "real" series??
>>>"Ill stay in the IRL so I can compete and make money because I dont have
>>>enough talent to run in CART and its top notch talent." ???

rec.autos.simulators

Papy goes the same way as Indy

Papy goes the same way as Indy

Papy goes the same way as Indy

Papy goes the same way as Indy

Papy goes the same way as Indy

Papy goes the same way as Indy

Papy goes the same way as Indy

Papy goes the same way as Indy

Papy goes the same way as Indy

Papy goes the same way as Indy