rec.autos.simulators

Papy goes the same way as Indy

Trey Beh

Papy goes the same way as Indy

by Trey Beh » Wed, 19 May 1999 04:00:00


>if you're an F1 fan, the IRL *does* have something to offer . . .

It certainly had something to offer its Champion: A chance to bail for the bigs
and drive in NASCAR, where he's doing pretty well! Haven't read too much about
the rest of the pack being offered rides outside the League, whereas F1 shelled
out big bucks to get Zanardi and Villeneuve back from CART.

Trey Behan

GoBucks

Papy goes the same way as Indy

by GoBucks » Wed, 19 May 1999 04:00:00

I hate to tell you this, but CART is a world wide series like F1, like most
Americans you forget we are just a speck on this earth..By the way those of us
who purchased CART stock when it came out, are grinning ear to ear on the
returns and incomes being made!

John Bod

Papy goes the same way as Indy

by John Bod » Wed, 19 May 1999 04:00:00

On Mon, 17 May 1999 20:23:09 GMT, "Scott B. Husted"


>HAHAHAHAHAHAH

>Yeah.. and the 12 fans in the stands (who got free tickets) and the TV
>ratings equivalent to reruns of Carlton Sheetz infomercials at 4AM!!

50,000 fans at a venue that can hold 120,000+ is bound to look sparse,
but when it only takes 25,000 fans in the stands to make it
profitable, you can bet the race promoters are laughing all the way to
the bank -- and loving the IRL for being there.  

The IRL may be lacking in coverage, but CART's TV ratings have been
even lower than the IRL.  How many times do I have to remind you
pikers about the "people in glass houses" thing?  Geez . . .

-- JB

John Bod

Papy goes the same way as Indy

by John Bod » Wed, 19 May 1999 04:00:00


>On Mon, 17 May 1999 10:10:35 -0500,


>>Just remember folks.... In the bigger scheme of things... 5, 10, 15 years
>>down the road the Indy 500 will be 100 years+ old as a race and will still
>>be the greatest spectacle in racing.

>It will never again be the 'greatest spectacle in racing', unless it has
>the greatest drivers and cars in racing.

This is all asinine, and I can't believe you bozos sucked me into this
old, tired "IRL vs. CART" argument again.  Even worse, I can't believe
I let myself get sucked into it.  There's NOTHING left to discuss on
this issue.  Your argument about the "greatest drivers and cars in
racing" doesn't hold water by ANYBODY's standards.  A fan of American
dirt tracks will have a different opinion of who the best drivers are,
just as an F1 race fan's opinion will be equally different.  Fans of
NHRA drag racing will have an even different view, for that matter.
There is NO definitive answer to the question of who the "greatest
drivers and cars in racing" are, so it's a moot point to even banter
around such irrelevant cliches.  This line of reasoning only takes us
down to the elementary school level, and next thing you know, one of
us will be saying, "Oh yeah, well my driver's better than your
driver."  Then, inevitably, the issue of whose father can beat up the
other guy's father comes up, and, frankly, that just doesn't seem like
a worthy course for me to pursue intellectually, so I'm just not going
there.

The Indianapolis 500 has a long and rich history -- those who study
the history of Indy will tell you that virtually EVERY year, there has
been some form of controversy.  The rear-drive British invasion was
controversial; the turbine cars were controversial; big wings and
ground effects were controversial at one time; Ray Harroun's decision
to race without a driving mechanic was controversial; baloons and
outhouses have caused controversy (if you don't know about this
reference, you've missed out on a very good story); front-wheel drive
Novis caused controversy; popoff valves were controversial;
equivalency formulas have always been controversial; the Marmon Wasp
itself was controverial (if you don't know what the Marmon Wasp is,
please don't waste my time with a rubuttal to ANY of this); the 100,
150, and 200 mph barriers were controverial; I could go on and on and
on and on, and even then, Donald Davidson could STILL come up with
even MORE controversy surrounding the Indianapolis 500.  

The whole CART/IRL issue is just another bit of controversy that will
someday become another footnote in the Indy 500's long and glorious
history, and the Indy 500 WILL go on long after BOTH the IRL and CART
are just the answers to trivia questions known only to diehard lovers
of obscure race trivia.

You can have whatever opinion you want about the IRL and CART --
there's some great racing and some great talent in both series, and
they both have a lot of merit.  There are records being set at the
fabled Brickyard this May, though, which tells me that the
Indianapolis 500 is alive and well, thank you very much, so if it
doesn't rain tomorrow, I'll probably be spending some time at the
track watching pointy-nosed cars do what I love to see them do.  

The Indy 500 is dead -- long live the Indy 500!

-- JB

John Bod

Papy goes the same way as Indy

by John Bod » Wed, 19 May 1999 04:00:00

On Mon, 17 May 1999 19:49:16 GMT, "Scott B. Husted"


>Hell,  I dont care about Indy either.   Winning the Indy 500 now is
>about the equivalent of winning a Saturday night heat race at the
>fairgrounds.

You're absolutely right -- just ask Eddie Cheever's accountant.  
John Bod

Papy goes the same way as Indy

by John Bod » Wed, 19 May 1999 04:00:00


Roger Penske has sold off most of his CART stock now that it's doubled
in value, and recently Roger Penske sold off his tracks.  Maybe Roger
Penske is a more savvy (and informed) businessman than the average
CART stockholder . . .

-- JB

Chuck Kandle

Papy goes the same way as Indy

by Chuck Kandle » Wed, 19 May 1999 04:00:00


>  There are records being set at the
> fabled Brickyard this May, though, which tells me that the
> Indianapolis 500 is alive and well, thank you very much,

> -- JB

Yeah?  Which records are being set?  Speed?  Or will it be attendance?  I know,
TV ratings!  I don't think so.  To what, sir, do you refer?

--
Chuck Kandler  #70
K&S Racing
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195
Unarmed & unafraid!

Scott B. Huste

Papy goes the same way as Indy

by Scott B. Huste » Wed, 19 May 1999 04:00:00


> On Tue, 18 May 1999 13:42:01 GMT, "Scott B. Husted"

> >Winning $$$$ does not make it prestigious when you are competing against
> >has been and never was drivers.

> Here's words you'll NEVER hear any real race driver utter:

> Driver:  "No sir, I'm sorry -- I can't accept that million-dollar
> purse.  Your race just isn't prestigious enough, and I couldn't
> tarnish my reputation as a driver by taking your money and making
> myself a millioniaire.  I'll go struggle in some other series . . ."

So what you are saying is that IRL drivers are just collecting money at Indy
because 99% of them dont have the talent to compete in a "real" series??
"Ill stay in the IRL so I can compete and make money because I dont have
enough talent to run in CART and its top notch talent."  ???

Scott Goodyear is leading the points after 2 races and has earned $217,650.
An avg of $108,825 per race in IRL.

I dont have any CART statistics handy.

Again.. you are equating "prestige" to dollars when i was arguing just the
opposite.  You need to compete against top talent for it to be prestigeous.
The IRL and the Indy 500 arent even close.

--
Scott B. Husted
PA-Scott on TEN
http://home.earthlink.net/~sbhusted
ICQ# 4395450

John Bod

Papy goes the same way as Indy

by John Bod » Wed, 19 May 1999 04:00:00




>>  There are records being set at the
>> fabled Brickyard this May, though, which tells me that the
>> Indianapolis 500 is alive and well, thank you very much,

>> -- JB

>Yeah?  Which records are being set?  Speed?  Or will it be attendance?  I know,
>TV ratings!  I don't think so.  To what, sir, do you refer?

Golly, Chuck -- the records to which I am referring would be the speed
records for cars powered by normally-aspirated engines on Indy's
2.5-mile oval.  Greg Ray and Arie Luyendyk both beat last year's
record Pole speed in the first two days of testing.  The
normally-aspirated IRL cars may not be as fast as the cars from the
turbo era, but one of the goals of the IRL was to reduce speeds, which
they have done.  Yes, boys and girls, you've got to go fast to race,
but it's also true that speed kills.  Remember Scott Brayton (may he
rest in peace)?  

Still, even though the officials try to slow 'em down, somehow the
amazing mechanics, crew chiefs, and drivers in the IRL keep finding
ways to make 'em go faster.  I guess that's just not an exciting thing
to some people unless it's accompanied by the whine of a turbo whine,
though, which is a shame.  

Still, as I said, while we've been glued to our monitors to some
degree or another arguing about the alleged demise of the Indianapolis
500, there have been pointy-nosed cars turning fast laps and breaking
recoreds at Indy.  Of course, real race fans are already aware of
this, I'm sure . . .  

John Bod

Papy goes the same way as Indy

by John Bod » Wed, 19 May 1999 04:00:00

On Mon, 17 May 1999 20:37:10 GMT, "Scott B. Husted"



>> >ROTFL.  Now thats funny as hell.  Who are they?  Never heard of almost
>> >any of them.  Doh.

>> Ditto most of CART's new talent.  People in glass houses, Homer . . .

>How about a new guy named Montoya who is doing fairly well as a rookie?  Hell of
>alot more talent and "names" in CART than the IRL.   The Ignorant Racing League
>gets "whats left".

>> Now, tell me, how far do we want to stretch these asinine arguments?

>Maybe until you realize that the Indy 500 is tainted and has lost its luster BIG
>time.  ABC was considering getting rid of its rights to broadcast it.

CORRECTION:  The Indianapolis Motor Speedway may choose not to renew
THEIR contract with ABC next year.  IMS wants a package deal:  Whoever
agrees to broadcast every race of the entire IRL series -- preferrably
live -- will win the rights to the Indianapolis 500 in the year 2000
and beyond.  Geez, if I had a dime for every half-truth and
pseudo-fact . . .

- Show quoted text -

John Bod

Papy goes the same way as Indy

by John Bod » Wed, 19 May 1999 04:00:00



Thanks, Thom -- it gets pretty hot around here when the rhetoric
begins to fly and the flamethrower-equipped sharks start to circle.
<G>

-- JB

GoBucks

Papy goes the same way as Indy

by GoBucks » Wed, 19 May 1999 04:00:00

Not really CART stock has went up 5 more dollars since Roger sold his stock.
Several of the original owners sold stock 2 weeks ago..Like all IPOs the main
owner have a buil in waiting period when a company goes public before they can
sell stock. Wait to the time is up on Amazon.com this fall, you'll see a huge
drop in it at that time..
John Bod

Papy goes the same way as Indy

by John Bod » Wed, 19 May 1999 04:00:00





>>It will never again be the 'greatest spectacle in racing', unless it has
>>the greatest drivers and cars in racing.

>I don't recall any of the greatest drivers competing in it since the F1
>boys stopped running there.... <g,d&r>

LOL!  Exactly my point, Richard -- everybody has a different opinion
on the issue of "the greatest drivers."  FWIW, the IRL has at least as
many "washed-up F1 veterans" and "young F1 wannabes" as CART, so if
you're an F1 fan, the IRL *does* have something to offer . . .

;-)

-- JB

Trey Beh

Papy goes the same way as Indy

by Trey Beh » Wed, 19 May 1999 04:00:00


>IMS wants a package deal:  Whoever
>agrees to broadcast every race of the entire IRL series -- preferrably
>live -- will win the rights to the Indianapolis 500 in the year 2000
>and beyond.

At last! A reason to sign up for the Disney Channel!

Trey Behan

John Bod

Papy goes the same way as Indy

by John Bod » Wed, 19 May 1999 04:00:00


Actually, I really liked the idea of CART's stock going public, but,
unfortunately, it also serves as something of an impediment to the
possibilities of an IRL/CART reunification.  CART is a publicly-traded
organization, and the IRL is a private, family-owned business, and the
two just don't mix very well.  What the CART owners might like may not
be in the best interests of the shareholders, and with many masters to
answer to, it's hard to find a deal that will work for all parties
involved.  

Give it time, though.  Controversies like this DO become a footnote
eventually, and no matter what we think, there ARE a lot more
Indy-style races going on these days, which ain't a bad thing.  

-- JB


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