http://www.racesimcentral.net/
cd2f1ec67775b3ddf
> > Nice work. The grip/downforce is much more realistic now. Just one
> > question, what's with the included setups? - I just tried a race at
> > Melbourne and every corner was a first gear corner...
The front tyre grip is too high compared to the rear 49.2/50.7 that makes
the car very unstable at low speed, at medium and high speed the aerodynamic
grip balances the car.
I've modified the generic.tbc for my own use to what I feel is a better
balance 48.7/51.3 It's probably still a bit too forward biased but I feel it
gives the car a much better balance and feel, try it if you want:
[COMPOUND]
Name="Soft Compound"
Front:
DryLatLong=(1.723, 1.898)
WetLatLong=(1.304, 1.467)
Radius=0.325
RadiusRPM=4.65e-6
SpringBase=44500.0
SpringkPa=983.0
Damper=545.0
LoadSens=30500.0
LatPeak=(0.10, 0.21, 24415.0)
LongPeak=(0.10, 0.21, 24415.0)
LatCurve="Default"
BrakingCurve="Default"
TractiveCurve="Default"
Camber=(3.05, 0.10)
RollingHeat=14.8
FrictionHeat=0.390
WearRate=1.006e-7
Softness=0.6
AILoad=18000.0
AIGripMult=0.975
OptimumTemp=112.0
OptimumPressure=143.0
Rear:
DryLatLong=(1.814, 1.873)
WetLatLong=(1.373, 1.422)
Radius=0.325
RadiusRPM=4.65e-6
SpringBase=66810.0
SpringkPa=1024.0
Damper=610.0
LoadSens=30500.0
LatPeak=(0.09, 0.19, 24415.0)
LongPeak=(0.09, 0.19, 24415.0)
LatCurve="Default"
BrakingCurve="Default"
TractiveCurve="Default"
Camber=(2.05, 0.08)
RollingHeat=12.0
FrictionHeat=0.255
WearRate=0.658e-7
Softness=0.6
AILoad=18000.0
AIGripMult=0.975
OptimumTemp=112.0
OptimumPressure=135.0
I also made a change to the springrates, closer too values I found on the
net.
> > How do you know? Not trying to be a smartass, I would honestly like to
> know
> > why you feel this is more realistic. I haven't tried the mod yet, but I
> > always felt that the low speed grip in F1 2002 was just fine, my low
speed
> > cornering speeds always compared well to real life telemetry. I agree
> that
> > there might have been a problem with downforce/drag ratio, but that's
> about
> > the only thing that ever seemed off relative to the available data.
> > Whenever I have downloaded mods where they tried to improve the low
speed
> > grip, like the RSDG stuff, it felt arcadey to me. If this new mod
really
> > matches real life telemetry I'm all for it, but if the author is just
> trying
> > to make things feel better I'm not interested.
> > > Nice work. The grip/downforce is much more realistic now. Just one
> > > question, what's with the included setups? - I just tried a race at
> > > Melbourne and every corner was a first gear corner...
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You might be right, but so far I have found at most tracks that as long as I
get in a high enough gear to keep the revs down, and modulate the throttle
carefully, I can get through low speed corners and out the exits in a
realistic manner. From what I have seen on TV and read in print this
appears to be what the real drivers are doing also. I would expect an 800
hp, 1100 lb beast to be a bit twitchy if I wasn't careful with the throttle
in a low speed corner.
I wouldn't expect spring rates to match the real cars, if that's what you
are saying. If you look at the f1susp.pm file it doesn't look like they
modelled the bellcrank at all, therefore it has to be assumed that the
springs and dampers act directly on the pushrods, whose locations are given
in the hdv files. If that is true then the bellcrank leverage ratio is not
there and the spring and damper rates will have to be different from the
real life values in order to arrive at the same wheel rate.
> > The front tyre grip is too high compared to the rear 49.2/50.7 that
makes
> > the car very unstable at low speed, at medium and high speed the
> aerodynamic
> > grip balances the car.
> You might be right, but so far I have found at most tracks that as long as
I
> get in a high enough gear to keep the revs down, and modulate the throttle
> carefully, I can get through low speed corners and out the exits in a
> realistic manner. From what I have seen on TV and read in print this
> appears to be what the real drivers are doing also. I would expect an 800
> hp, 1100 lb beast to be a bit twitchy if I wasn't careful with the
throttle
> in a low speed corner.
The low speed handling is the probably the best part of F12k2. People
expect a ton of grip from these cars and don't realize that they've
got half the contact patch of a normal slick to work with.
Jason
I remember in the 900hp days before TC, the champcar guys said you simply
could not use full throttle below about 75-80mph or you'd loop it, and even
then you'd better have the car pointed straight. These suckers have a lot
of power...
SB
> > Hmmm.. can't agree on that one I'm afraid. Low speed grip has been one
of
> > the (few) common problems with F1 2002. I have it, and lots of others do
> > too. However, many don't, so it could be down to the controllers used
> which
> > in my experience makes a lot of difference to the way any sim feels.
Don't
> > know why that should be, but there you are!
> > Iain
I tried it and... you wouldn't be interested. I agree: completely overdone.
Watching Imola qualfying rekindled my intrest in running an F1 sim. Though I
was always happy about the overall grip situation in F1 2k2, I tended to
find the mechanical response of the car rather "soggy", making me lose the
car in situations like little low speed slides where, for the real F1
drivers, the car always seems to "bite".
So I thought applying this patch might be a good idea. I'd sort of made a
note of the announcement earlier, before the thought of running "unmodded"
F1 2k2 again crossed my mind. Went back to find it, read your misgiving and
decided to have a look for myself.
Thank you very much for posting your doubts, Hal. You made me take the
precaution of backing up the files which were going to be replaced. A wise
move, it turns out as this patch borders, as you predicted, on the arcade.
Though I like certain aspects like the response and the poise under braking,
I found I could take *way* too many liberties in the driving department for
this patch to remain believable.
Also, the "improved" AI have the unsettling habit of "dying" at TAP
(Throttle Application Point) leading to many a heartstopping moment. One
doesn't expect another driver, who's just beaten one on the brakes and still
made an apex to suddenly bog down on exit for no reason.
As a minor niggle... all cars seem to have reverted to only having 6 gears.
This is not necessarily a bad thing... proper racing cars have 6 gears, V8
or V12 engines and rev 11k (naturally aspirated and carburated, of course
<g>), but it's not a representation of 2002 F1.
Anyhow... uninstalled, gone, outta here. Thanks bud.
Jan.
=---
Now *this* I like... the tyre acts as if it's made out of *** all the
time instead of reverting to silasto in certain conditions. A *lot* more
crisp and, though this may be imagination, more progressive in wear as well.
Car now "skates" the front a bit, but I assume this can be dialed out by
setup.
Thanks!! -Have you done the other compounds too?
Jan.
=---
PS.: now I need to search my backups for Hal's recommendations on how to not
make the kerbs act as "sandpapery" as they do and then I'll be all set.
> I tried it and... you wouldn't be interested. I agree: completely
> overdone.
> Watching Imola qualfying rekindled my intrest in running an F1 sim.
> Though I was always happy about the overall grip situation in F1 2k2,
> I tended to find the mechanical response of the car rather "soggy",
> making me lose the car in situations like little low speed slides
> where, for the real F1 drivers, the car always seems to "bite".
> So I thought applying this patch might be a good idea. I'd sort of
> made a note of the announcement earlier, before the thought of
> running "unmodded" F1 2k2 again crossed my mind. Went back to find
> it, read your misgiving and decided to have a look for myself.
> Thank you very much for posting your doubts, Hal. You made me take the
> precaution of backing up the files which were going to be replaced. A
> wise move, it turns out as this patch borders, as you predicted, on
> the arcade. Though I like certain aspects like the response and the
> poise under braking, I found I could take *way* too many liberties in
> the driving department for this patch to remain believable.
> Also, the "improved" AI have the unsettling habit of "dying" at TAP
> (Throttle Application Point) leading to many a heartstopping moment.
> One doesn't expect another driver, who's just beaten one on the
> brakes and still made an apex to suddenly bog down on exit for no
> reason.
> As a minor niggle... all cars seem to have reverted to only having 6
> gears. This is not necessarily a bad thing... proper racing cars have
> 6 gears, V8 or V12 engines and rev 11k (naturally aspirated and
> carburated, of course <g>), but it's not a representation of 2002 F1.
> Anyhow... uninstalled, gone, outta here. Thanks bud.
> Jan.
> =---
--
Ian P
<email invalid due to spammers>
"Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand
alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular structures,....and
the....." - Ash
> > I tried it and... you wouldn't be interested. I agree: completely
> > overdone.
> > Watching Imola qualfying rekindled my intrest in running an F1 sim.
> > Though I was always happy about the overall grip situation in F1 2k2,
> > I tended to find the mechanical response of the car rather "soggy",
> > making me lose the car in situations like little low speed slides
> > where, for the real F1 drivers, the car always seems to "bite".
> > So I thought applying this patch might be a good idea. I'd sort of
> > made a note of the announcement earlier, before the thought of
> > running "unmodded" F1 2k2 again crossed my mind. Went back to find
> > it, read your misgiving and decided to have a look for myself.
> > Thank you very much for posting your doubts, Hal. You made me take the
> > precaution of backing up the files which were going to be replaced. A
> > wise move, it turns out as this patch borders, as you predicted, on
> > the arcade. Though I like certain aspects like the response and the
> > poise under braking, I found I could take *way* too many liberties in
> > the driving department for this patch to remain believable.
> > Also, the "improved" AI have the unsettling habit of "dying" at TAP
> > (Throttle Application Point) leading to many a heartstopping moment.
> > One doesn't expect another driver, who's just beaten one on the
> > brakes and still made an apex to suddenly bog down on exit for no
> > reason.
> > As a minor niggle... all cars seem to have reverted to only having 6
> > gears. This is not necessarily a bad thing... proper racing cars have
> > 6 gears, V8 or V12 engines and rev 11k (naturally aspirated and
> > carburated, of course <g>), but it's not a representation of 2002 F1.
> > Anyhow... uninstalled, gone, outta here. Thanks bud.
> > Jan.
> > =---
> Do you by any chance still have the original files that I *stupidly* let it
> overwrite ? ;)
> --
> Ian P
> <email invalid due to spammers>
