rec.autos.simulators

Hello people

In ICR2 on the road circuits (i.e Laguna and Toronto)
and the way the car corners is totally different to the way
GP2 corners. It seems you can corner much faster
in GP2 without skidding off of the track. I realise
the games are totally different made by different companies.
But do Indycars in reallife handle as they do or is it
just the simulation. Indycars seem much slower on corners
compared to GP2. I have some possible answers brewing in my
head.

1) The Circuits are just slower in ICR2
2) My Indycars are not set up that well (Running Standard settings)
3) The games are just simulations (This is the answer I guess!)
4) Indycars in Reallife just don't handle like Grand Prix cars
   (Assuming both sims are very true to life)

I've never actually checked the speedo when cornering
in both sims.
An answer to this bruning question may make me feel
better about my ok driving in GP2 and v.poor performance in
ICR2. BTW I use a joystick (Currently getting the parts together
for a Wallys World Wheel).

Thanks in Advance for and Answers
Mark

One thing that could be done is to take both an Indycar and an F1 and
try them both out on the same track to compare. But as Jacques
Villeneuve (our local champion here in Quebec) said this about Indys
compared to F1s: The F1 almost drives itself and it's really a
competition about car and engine makers as Indycar is actually a
competition between drivers since only 3 engines and 3 chasis choices
are available.

Another thing he said back in 1995 was that "Stepping into an F1 is like
stepping into an F-15 as Indycars are more like a P-51 Mustang". Well,
as most pilots know; a F-15 almost flies itself and a P-51 is much
harder to pilot.

Talking about Wallys world wheel, we've just completed a steering wheel
and pedal unit of our own after browsing through his page. We've been
working out the quirks for the last week, and today I tried my T1 wheel
against my friend's custom designed wheel (the one I'm talking about)
and we we're pretty even. And I used to blow him away very easily when
he used a Joystick. BTW: during that test run, I was able to lap
Taladega (a Nascar conversion) with my Indy and 252.619 MPH (My personal
best after 3 days).

What's unique about our wheel/pedal combo is it's customizability.
Here's and example:

Wheel:

1 - Lock to Lock fully adjustable from 170 degrees to 270 degrees
2 - Adjustable resistance when turning
3 - Adjustable "loose" part in the center
4 - Steering mounted shift buttons
5 - Hollow steering shaft that enables the wiring to go to the wheel
without seeing it.
6 - Tilt steering

Pedals

1 - Initial position adjustable
2 - Pedal travel adjustable
3 - Pedal resistance adjustable
4 - Floor mounted or*** from the top
5 - Adjustable Potentiometer feedback
5 - Adjustable progression (increase) of pedal resistance

I'll be sending the original VRML .wrl file for both the Wheel and
pedals to Wally very soon to be added into his page. This VRML file was
used to plan out exactly what we needed and we manipulated the whole
unit in 3D to see what the actual finished product would look like. IT's
pretty close except some minor changes that we thought of when we
started building the thing.The whole thing is very unique (especially
the pedals). What's amazing is the special look it has. It's mostly
metal and it's very clean and compact. Also has a nice shine to it when
placed under lights.

If you want more details as well as the VRML files, just e-mail me.

See ya!

Christian
---------

The other thing is just a matter of perception.  Unless the two sims run
the same circuits (or if you find two corners in F1 tracks and Indycar
tracks that is comparable), you can't truly compare the car's speed through
the corners except through the feel.  Maybe with some telemetry and simlar
corners, this could be done scientifically.

Gregory Fung

Vancouver, B.C., Canada

IICC3 Rebel Alliance Lola/Ford/Firestone
ITCC Player's Ltd. Audi A4

: >Hello people
: >
: >In ICR2 on the road circuits (i.e Laguna and Toronto)
: >and the way the car corners is totally different to the way
: >GP2 corners. It seems you can corner much faster
: >in GP2 without skidding off of the track. I realise

 F1 cars are much lighter than Indy cars. Years ago the minimum weight
 of a F1 was 540 kg. I think that the limit was raised but it is hardly
 more than 600 kg. A full tank should weight no more than 90 kg and an
 average driver is about 70 kg. I think than Indy cars weight more
 than 1000 kg, am I right?

 A good reason to have heavy cars is than you don't have to spend a
 lot of money in research to make cars lighter. On the other side a
 light car has better acceleration and cornering speed, and that's all
 you want from a race car.

 I remember that when Villeneuve tested a Williams for the first time
 he got very good lap times but he said that he should learn to run
 faster across corners (in particular he referred to the first turn at
 Silverstone: D. Hill made a much better intermediate time there.) So
 it seems that F1 cars really turn faster than Indy cars.

 Paolo
 ----

 WWW:   http://www.physics.sunysb.edu/~montra        ETNOTEAM S.p.A.
 Tel:   +39-2-26126-207                              via A. Bono Cairoli 34
 Fax:   +39-2-26110755                               I-20127 Milano, Italy

Well, of couse they corner better, F1 cars that is. You have to keep in
mind that a Indycar is built for speed, not handleing. If you took a
Formula One car and a Indycar on a oval, the indycar would eat it up, but
put them both on a road circut, the Formula One car would kill it!

Steven Daniels
Bretzmna Motorsports

 This is the most absurd thing I have heard in a long time!!!!  Anyone
who knows anythig about Auto Racing knows he F1 cars are the fastest
cars in the sport....(track racing, that is)  If an F1 car and an
Indycar were equally setup and let loose on a track such as Michigan,
the F1 car would blow the Indycar's wheels off!!!!

  J.Walsh (sirglock)

P.S. Learn a little more about the sport before you reply to this
post, please.....

--
------------------------

'87 GPX 750 R

Okay twit. Here's the lesson for today:

An IndyCar can go 240 mph.
An F1 car can go 210 mph.

Duh. I think that makes the IndyCar faster.

Maybe you should learn something about the sport yourself. Why are you
ignorant ***s always the ones with an attitude?

Have a nice day.

Your buddy,
Krabmeat.

On a track like Michigan where the cars are running almost flat out
continuously there would be no contest. An Indycar can reach a top speed
of around 250 mph. An F1 car can get to maybe 230 mph.

In othere words the F1 car would be getting lapped quite quickly after
the start of the race.

These are facts....I suggest you learn a little more about the cars
before you spout off.

The same idea goes for street courses.  F1 tracks are MIRROR smooth
compared to some Indycar tracks like Clevland, Vancouver and Toronto.

Gregory Fung

Vancouver, B.C., Canada

IICC3 Rebel Alliance Lola/Ford/Firestone
ITCC Player's Ltd. Audi A4

First lets get the gutter talk out of this newsgroup.  Next let's answer
this question with an educated reply.  A F1 car is built for cornering, i.e
more wing which transforms to more downforce, and ...more drag.  A F1 car
is also lighter, about 25% so.  This lighter weight allows the higher rev
(and very powerful) powerplant to accelerate very quickly.  But this same
lighter weight also causes the engine to be not nearly as durable.
Probably a few laps at top speed before retiring.  Also while a Indycar is
heavier, it is also more aerodynamic, so when is gets up to speed it can
maintain that speed better.

D. Radecki

Sorry, I'ld like to correct my ignorance of engine performance.  I thought
the gasoline F1 engine would more than make up for the 15" of boost in the
methanol engine (are they still running 45" pressure next year?)

Gregory Fung

Vancouver, B.C., Canada

IICC3 Rebel Alliance Lola/Ford/Firestone
ITCC Player's Ltd. Audi A4

Yeh, but even so, indy cars are not as technologically advanced as F1 cars