rec.autos.simulators

but you won't get them set up the same; they aren't the same thing.
i don't have the figures to hand, but i'm pretty sure that f1 cars have
higher downforce and higher drag than indycars, primarily because you
must design an indycar to run 250mph to be competitive, and this leads
the indycar designer to make very different engineering tradeoffs than an f1
designer.
--

Brian Wong                              Enterprise Engineering

: First lets get the gutter talk out of this newsgroup.  Next let's answer
: this question with an educated reply.  A F1 car is built for cornering, i.e
: more wing which transforms to more downforce, and ...more drag.  A F1 car
: is also lighter, about 25% so.  This lighter weight allows the higher rev
: (and very powerful) powerplant to accelerate very quickly.  But this same
: lighter weight also causes the engine to be not nearly as durable.
: Probably a few laps at top speed before retiring.  Also while a Indycar is
: heavier, it is also more aerodynamic, so when is gets up to speed it can
: maintain that speed better.

: D. Radecki

A race car can be trimmed or high-downforce, including Indycars.  You are
right about the engine, but that would be the determining factor, as it is a
tradeoff, if you want alot of aero grip, you are going to give up top end (in
an Indycar or a F1 car).  Both can have high-downforce setups (at tight
roadcourses) or trimmed setups (like Hockenhiem or Michegan).

--
Robert B. McGehee          RM Racing, Inc.

www.olemiss.edu/~rbm       www.inlink.com/~rmracing

: >
: > >Well, of couse they corner better, F1 cars that is. You have to keep in
: > >mind that a Indycar is built for speed, not handleing. If you took a
: > >Formula One car and a Indycar on a oval, the indycar would eat it up, but
: > >put them both on a road circut, the Formula One car would kill it!
: >
: > >Steven Daniels
: > >Bretzmna Motorsports
: >
: >  This is the most absurd thing I have heard in a long time!!!!  Anyone
: > who knows anythig about Auto Racing knows he F1 cars are the fastest
: > cars in the sport....(track racing, that is)  If an F1 car and an
: > Indycar were equally setup and let loose on a track such as Michigan,
: > the F1 car would blow the Indycar's wheels off!!!!
: >
: >   J.Walsh (sirglock)
: >
: > P.S. Learn a little more about the sport before you reply to this
: > post, please.....

: I think, you are wrong. The F1 car will not be as fast as an indycar on
: oval racecourses. The F1 chassis has a lot of more downforce, which costs
: a lot of energy at high speeds.
: And look at the total power output, a Indycar has a top of ca 950 hp, the
: F1 has 800 hp.
: This two reasons makes the F1 at Ovals slower. The lower weight of the F1
:  cannot compensate the better aerodynamic and the higher power output of
: the Indycar.
: At road courses you are right, the Indycar should be slower. But I would
: like to see how fast an Indycar goes on a high-speed F1 course like
: Hockenheim, Germany.
: Rainer Roesch

F1 cars have less horsepower but are much lighter.  Indycars have more
horsepower, but are heavier.  There is no doubt that F1 cars are better on
roadcourses, they are light and agile.  As for the oval, I don't really know,
more horsepower means more top end, regardless of weight (to a point).  On a
tight oval, the F1 car would be good, because high downforce setups are what
is run, but on a big one like Michegan, assuming both cars geared properly
with speedway setups, I would put my money on the Indycar.

When Villneuve went to F1, I remember him saying that he didn't think the F1
car accelerated as hard as the Indycar when the boost came in.

--
Robert B. McGehee          RM Racing, Inc.

www.olemiss.edu/~rbm       www.inlink.com/~rmracing

: >The same idea goes for street courses.  F1 tracks are MIRROR smooth
: >compared to some Indycar tracks like Clevland, Vancouver and Toronto.

: You're kidding?! Have you seen in car footage of Mexico or Interlagos?
: Even Senna said that he could barely hold the wheel or grasp the gear
: shift, these tracks were like farm roads!

: Cheers!
: John

I agree, it may look smooth, but a bump under high g-forces can rip the wheel
right out of your hand.

--
Robert B. McGehee          RM Racing, Inc.

www.olemiss.edu/~rbm       www.inlink.com/~rmracing

Gregory Fung

Vancouver, B.C., Canada

IICC3 Rebel Alliance Lola/Ford/Firestone
ITCC Player's Ltd. Audi A4

:
:
::  Well, I decided to test the formula last night.  I have a 1991 Camaro Z28
:1LE.  This vehicle weight is 3200 lbs. and I weight 150 lbs. and the car
:was ~270 hp.  The top speed of the vehicle with only me in it is 165 mph.
:So for the test, I found 3 brave friends (actually they jumped at the
:opportunity) to hop in the car with me to see if the top speed changed.
:The total weight of my friends was 530 lbs.  This increased the total
:weight of the vehicle by 16%.  The difference in weight between a F1 car
:and an Indycar is I believe to be about 20%.  I was still able to hit
:165mph but it did take about 3/4-1 mile longer to reach top speed.
:Unfortunately this is not very scientific because I was only able to
:perform the test once.  I felt if I tried to perform the test again, the
:results may have become contaminated by an outside influence :)
:
Ahh..did you make your sure speedo is calibrated??? Not being a smart ass..just
making sure the tests were valid..

Bravo  DG

Gregory Fung wrote

Bear in mind that the top speed attainable by any car on any racetrack
is determined by acceleration.  A car's top speed on an oval track is
reached not long before the driver has to brake.  This is the basic
principle of setting gear ratios.  You want to car to accelerate as
fast as possible until the track forces the brakes to be applied.

Surely, a higher speed may be attained if the car can accelerate
faster.  An F1 car's acceleration (read *gear ratio*) dictates
the top speed.  For example, gearing 6th gear too long for a
given straight will reduce top speed - not because the gears
couldn't drive the car faster, but because the car can't
accelerate to a higher speed in time for the next corner.  This
also applies to ovals even if it is only the corner slowing the
car down (as opposed to brakes).

Jet

Sorry, I've lost track of the original arguement.  You said something about
using F=ma or something right?

Gregory Fung

Vancouver, B.C., Canada

IICC3 Rebel Alliance Lola/Ford/Firestone
ITCC Player's Ltd. Audi A4

F1 cars are designed for nothing but road courses, because they race on
nothing but road courses. Indycars were designed for nothing but ovals,
and havent changed much over time, even though they now (I think) race
on about as many road courses as ovals.

I would too...
--
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