rec.autos.simulators

by **Uncle Feste** » Wed, 15 May 2002 02:02:08

> You could also call it a remarkable lack of team spirit, and inconsequence
> or even hipocrisy - after all, Rubens just very recently signed a contract
> that obliges him to do precisely what he did at Zeltweg (and he's done it
> before as well). Apparently Rubens didn't have much m***doubts about it
> when he signed the contract...

> It all depends on the way you look at it... ;-)

I suppose so. Seems to me he has the balls to put heat to his employer,
to the extent that he is able to, when his employer is clearly in the
wrong. A most commendable action for someone in a tough situation to be
in. :-)

--

Fester

Hey nobody's perfect, not even myself 8)
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> 4/15/02

by **Gerry Aitke** » Wed, 15 May 2002 02:36:47

> I suppose so. Seems to me he has the balls to put heat to his employer,
> to the extent that he is able to, when his employer is clearly in the
> wrong. A most commendable action for someone in a tough situation to be
> in. :-)

Tough situation?! Yeah right, my heart bleeds for him...no really, it
does...honest.

Gerry

by **John Pancoas** » Wed, 15 May 2002 03:57:23

Clark allowed someone to win, when he could have ? That was my point,
fwiw.

-John

by **Eldre** » Wed, 15 May 2002 04:47:12

>Now we get to hear Ferrari and MS bashing for a few days from jealous fans
>of other drivers/teams. <yawn>

Fans of other teams? Why? They wouldn't have gotten the points anyway -
Ferrari was still 1-2...
I like Ferrari, but I think Rubens got 'pimped'... :(

Eldred
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*** cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a
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by **Eldre** » Wed, 15 May 2002 04:47:12

>That's a good point, while two way telemetry could have shut off Ruben's
>car if he tried to say "no", nothing could have stopped Michael saying he'd
>park the car if he truly disagreed with the team orders.

I don't think they would have *shut off* Rubens' car(I doubt they could do that
anyway). They wouldn't want to give those 6 points(at least) to another team.

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
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*** cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a
donation. Thank you.

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by **Ronald Stoeh** » Wed, 15 May 2002 05:14:55

> To be frank Goy, I reallyu dont give a hoot of who's fault it was... it
> sucked bigtime and really show what F1 is today... if tyouy want to win you
> can only afford to back one horse.... meaning that who ever rides beside MS
> will always suffer.

> MS himself should have seen this coming and if it felt this bad - he should
> have let Rubens take the win.

> MS suck - GO RUBENS!

If you blame MS, you should also blame RB. Both guys are bound by their
contracts defining their roles in the TEAM. Why didn't RB just hit the
gas pedal? He was pissed, but stayed within his contract, so did MS.
Both are dedicated F1 drivers, and are willing to do a lot to not
risk loosing the seat in that red car.

If anyone is to blame, it's the loonies at the top of Ferrari.
Get 4 more points to secure the drivers championship but loose BIG
amounts of sympathy. So much stupidity is unbelievable...

--
l8er
ronny

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by **Ronald Stoeh** » Wed, 15 May 2002 05:31:45

> Although I like you personally, this is a most repulsive statement. It
> makes you sound like a Corporate *** as well. The individual should
> come first, not the organization. When the organization gets out of
> place, they need to be put back in their place by the individual. Like
> MS using his brakes & refusing their false win. And it's not anti-MS
> jealousy talking either. I'd feel the same if it had been JPM or anyone
> else. Instead by playing along with the Ferrari organization, he sold
> his character & morals for $$. What better example of a Corporate ***?

What a childish view of the world. Sorry for the harsh words, but unless
you succeed in world revolution, this is idealistic dreaming. MS is a
very dedicated racer and does (meanwhile) not give a rats ass about money,
he just wants to race this car. Following orders from your boss doesn't
make you a ***, it just helps keeping you employed.

Also, any political system invented by humans had a command structure,
and any future system (should it be invented) will have it, too... ;)

--
l8er
ronny

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by **Ronald Stoeh** » Wed, 15 May 2002 05:38:36

snip

I'm with you on all points. MS stated in an interview that this was not discussed
before the race. He was surprised when he was told on the last lap that RB would
let him pass. Of course, all the MS haters don't believe one single word he
says, so he probably bullied RB on the radio into submission, or maybe MS
really has a red button on his steering wheel labeled "RB engine off" ... ;)

--
l8er
ronny

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by **Joachim Trens** » Wed, 15 May 2002 08:03:52

...

<bg> good one :-)

Achim

by JM » Wed, 15 May 2002 06:45:59

1. Yes they can shut the car off with two way telemetry, I'm reminded of a
certain N.Mansell waving to the crowd with a comfortable lead on his final
lap and the gesture being mistaken from the pit as a warning, and the car
rolling to a stop.

2. Ferrari do not, I repeat, do not, give one flying *** about the
manufacturer's championship. It is their strategy to back one horse for
the driver's championship. The manf title has always only ever been a
consolation prize, nobody really cares about it.

I'm not saying that was said, but it would be known to any driver that the
possibility existed. Still, I can't see Rubens crying into his pile of 10
million dollar notes any time soon.

For the record, I've supported Ferrari for years, and defended MS against
many of his critics.

cheers
John

by **Bob** » Wed, 15 May 2002 07:19:28

>> I don't think they would have *shut off* Rubens' car(I doubt they
>> could do that anyway). They wouldn't want to give those 6 points(at
>> least) to another team.

>> Eldred

>1. Yes they can shut the car off with two way telemetry, I'm reminded of a
>certain N.Mansell waving to the crowd with a comfortable lead on his final
>lap and the gesture being mistaken from the pit as a warning, and the car
>rolling to a stop.

Absolutely false. Two way telemetry did not exist in F1 until this
year, and was certainly NOT in effect in 1991, the year to which you
are probably referring (Canadian GP). If you are suggesting that
Williams were cheating by having such a system in place 11 years ago,
it is completely ludicrous to believe that something that blatant
could be kept secret from everyone else in the paddock. Plain and
simple, the gearbox packed in; the engine was still running when the
car finally stopped. I was about 20 feet away and could plainly hear
Nigel revving the engine and trying to find a gear.

by **Rob Adam** » Wed, 15 May 2002 07:36:07

Yeah, I think this is an urban myth. I remember watching that race on TV and
you could definitely hear the engine revving and see Nigel working furiously
in the***pit trying to make it go. I felt sorry for him...

Any team member that shuts an engine off just because the driver waves
(without getting triple confirmation over the radio) would never work in
racing again!

by **Joachim Trens** » Wed, 15 May 2002 09:41:45

A friend yesterday reminded me of the Italian GP 1956, where a direct
competitor for that year's title yielded his car to another driver.

This driver, Collins, came into the pits for a tire-check with 15 laps to
go, and yielded his car to Fangio, whose car had broken down with a
mechanical failure. Fangio accepted.

Collins thereby gave up his chances for the title that year, while Fangio
finished second and took this year's title. His third in a row if
http://www.grandprix.com/gpe/rr056.html has the facts right.

Achim

...

by **Joachim Trens** » Wed, 15 May 2002 09:48:53

I forgot to add this URL, where DC says what he thinks...

http://www.planet-f1.com/news/article.html/f1/ENG?ref=9354

Achim

by **Hans Jense** » Wed, 15 May 2002 07:48:50

I agree Moto GP is way better and Rossi rocks, that kid can ride

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