rec.autos.simulators

OK, for one, if Waltrip had passed Little E then probably another 20 cars
would have done, too, so that was an example of settling for what you've
got. That wasn't the case today. (By the way, it was Daytona, wasn't it?)
 Second, I'm not a jealous type, but a champion must win races, not get them
given to him. He must win championships by driving, not by playing
bumper-cars with other guys. More pertinently, what we saw today was just
not sport. It was a manufactured outcome, and I want no part of it.
 I'm one of those holier-than-thou ***y-minded types, I'm afraid, and I
won't watch or support F1 until this stench is cleared up.

Elrikk

--

__________

Steve Levett

I guess I must be the melodrama queen, ehh?

I am not a fan of NASCAR the way I am a fan of F1, Cart, IRL, Barber Dodge
etc,etc,etc...

I just feel that the fans were robbed of seeing the hard work and trouble
that Ruben's been through this year pay off.  Sometimes the nice guys should
win....

BTW, I am a Jaguar fan (but I'm starting to regret that path  :)

Wayne

Total BS.  It had been shown throughout the whole race that, without
help from behind, it was extremely difficult to draft by the leader.

If it was the last race of the year, with the driver's chamionship and
the manufacturers championship (Ford v Chevy) actually on the line,
what happened at Austria wouldn't happen in NASCAR.  Both drivers
involved would be tainted for life.  The sponsors would have to
disassociate themselves from the team to avoid the fan backlash.  The
sanctioning body would take real action.

"David G Fisher">
   like what David?  Esplain why Montoya didn't really beat Ralfie???
(sorry cheap shot...I go now)
dave henrie

He wouldn't even take the 1st place position at the podium, and in fact gave
the winning trophy to Rubens.

He probably created an little internal trouble for himself with that move,
but I thought it was a nice gesture considering.

Both of them handled the interviews as well as could be expected.

-Larry

It is absolutely normal for Nascar Team members to help each other on the
track.

However, I have never, EVER seen a one-two situation like this where the
team-mate in the lead, about to win the race, pulled over and let the second
place car win.

Never.

-Larry

I think Mikey tried everything he could to protect BOTH of their positions,
and try to win at the same time.

That was a completely different situation than that horse-puckies we saw on
TV today.

-Larry

-Larry

That's easy. JPM will explain to you how he edged out the faster (both in
qualifying and race--just like last week until RS's admitted mistake) RS.
http://www.autosport.com/newsitem.cfm?id=18967&series=5

Yes, RS was faster in qualifying two weeks ago (outqualified JPM in four of
six races so far) and again in Austria. He also was much faster in both
races. He opened up nice lead in Austria, and then gradually pulled JPM him
back in when behind after pit stops. He easily pulled away from JPM in Spain
until his JPM like mistake. Of course the JPM myth will live on in the minds
of some who can't admit when they get caught up in hype.

As for all these whiners who let their emotions and bias get the best of
them, the main thing they are overlooking (figured I'd wait until now so I
could watch the whining for awhile) is that RB (who I like a lot) did not
*beat* MS in a fight to the finish. We don't know who really would of won
because the race was essentially ended long before the last 100 meters due
to both driver's big lead over Williams.

From http://www.autosport.com/newsitem.cfm?id=18962&series=5

Technical director Ross Brawn justified the move to give Schumacher the win
by saying Ferrari dictated what pace their drivers should race at, so
therefore it wasn't a true fight to the flag.

"Rubens Barrichello won the race today," said the Englishman. "But in the
interests of Ferrari we made the decision for the drivers' championship. We
told the drivers not to race each other. We were telling Michael not to push
we were telling Rubens not to push. That's not a race."

David G Fisher

Please. Everyone saw Waltrip was blocking for Earnhardt and never even
attempted a pass. Plenty of people in this newsgroup saw the same thing but
didn't get offended by it for some reason. Check the "N2002 Drafting
Accurate?" thread for examples. Both Waltrip and Barichello let their
teammates win, but in different ways.

It wasn't the last race of the F1 season, with the drivers and manufacturers
championship on the line, so why make that comparison?

NASCAR??? Yea right. With all the ***that goes on in that WWF league of
racing I highly doubt it. F1 can learn nothing from a comparatively minor
league series like NASCAR.

David G Fisher

And yes it was Talladega, but according to some here at r.a.s., this has
happened before with Waltrip and Eanrhardt (see N2002 Drafting Accurate?"
thread so maybe that's why you are confused.

Something MS has done more than any other, and something he makes look
rather easy because he's probably the greatest driver ever. BTW, I'm the
last person to fawn over an athlete (wouldn't bother to walk into the next
room to meet Michael Jordan) or listen to hype, but the guy is simply
amazing.

As I said in another post, MS and RB were not racing each other in a battle
to the finish. At some point, they were told not to push their cars or each
other. If they both had the Williams drivers on their tail and RB was still
able to stay ahead of MS (somehting he's rarely done---a huge fact that
can't be ignored), then RB would have gotten the win.

If this type of thing really bothers you and some others, and you won't
watch or support F1 until it's cleared up, then you shouldn't have been
watching for decades because it's happened before. It's happened in various
series. For some reason, when the best driver and team in the world does it,
it's the end of the world. Sounds like nothing but jealousy to me.

My personal opinion is that the decision was a necessary evil (too strong a
phrase actually). Ferrari is a team made up of many, many people (not just
MS and RB) and is trying to win the drivers and manufacturers championship.
The season is only a third over and the standings could change dramatically
in just a few races.

David G Fisher

  For that matter, I remember years ago, Ken Squire openly asking(in all
serious, he wasn't being a wise-guy)the other announcers during races, if
Nascar would throw a flag to tighten the field up.  At least these days,
there actually is debris of some kind when they do it<G>  If they haven't
already, expect debris flags so the networks can get some commercials in, in
the future.
  And then there's the "flip a coin for this week's version of the rules"
that Nascar likes to do...........and I'm a lifelong Nascar fan, but this
stuff happens.

  Iow, both series are guilty of shenanigans at times.   It's nothing new,
and it'll happen again, just the way it is.  Doesn't mean it doesn't stink
still though<G>

-John