rec.autos.simulators

Nascar 3 physics versus GPL

2_Slo

Nascar 3 physics versus GPL

by 2_Slo » Thu, 13 Apr 2000 04:00:00

perhaps a pseudo for David G. Fisher?

   I am not, nor have I ever been, David G. Fisher.

   2_Slow

Goy Larse

Nascar 3 physics versus GPL

by Goy Larse » Thu, 13 Apr 2000 04:00:00


> Hehe, who are YOU kidding?!?  I'll probably do well to break 120's...<g>

Try setting shifting to "auto" until you get familiar with the track and
the setup, most of the "fast guys" are faster with "manual" I suppose,
personally I use the gears to judge my entry speed into the corners, but
using "auto" for a while will let you focus on your lines and braking
and turn in points, there used to be a replay of a good lap at the "Team
Mirage" web page, but the site is under reconstruction so it has been
removed for the time being

If you can do steady 120's in an online race in N3, you're not too far
off and will probably not do too bad, Tracey isn't exactly a slow guy on
Glen, and if you're only a couple of mph's off his pace, you at least
have the basics down, but getting really good at the road courses takes
time, not because road courses takes a special skill or anything, but
just as much because there are more corners and therefore more to
remember

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/
"The Pits"    http://www.theuspits.com/

* Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way *
"Spamkiller"    http://www.spamkiller.com

Bruce Kennewel

Nascar 3 physics versus GPL

by Bruce Kennewel » Thu, 13 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Wow!!
That's REAL "racin' talk". :-) I'm sitting here reading this post and it's
like listening to the dialogue from an old 40's B-grade movie featuring
Ronald Reagan and George Raft! All we need is to have Walter Brennan playing
the part of the crusty-yet-lovable old mechanic!
--
Regards,
Bruce Kennewell,
Canberra, Australia.
---------------------------


> Watch that movie puppy and concentrate on what the suspensions are
> doing vis a vis the tub/engine/gearbox units. Lots of "compliance".
> Noses come waaaaay down on decel on some of the corners. Took a lot of
> "give" to get the power down and keep it down.

> Now look for slow mo telephoto lens head on shots of contemporary F1
> cars. The drivers heads are bouncing around like fleas in a hot
> skillet. Remember a few years ago when under car air management was
> sucking the seal coats right off the tracks? Very little "compliance".
> In F1 before blow offs on the Turbo-Kompressors I believe the mills
> were making about 1000+ very hairy legged horses in a power band like
> a light switch.  Got to get it down to the contact patch racing
> surface interface.

> Different ball game altogether. No real comparisons possible given the
> aero doodads. Now you need a foam *** ass and shocks on your
> eyeballs. One thing hasn't changed though. You still have to clank
> when you walk.

> On Tue, 11 Apr 2000 20:22:19 -0600, "Michael St.Julien"

> >I watched this movie...actually bought it this weekend.  I'd just started
> >really trying to learn GPL.  I'm using F2's.  man I'm hooked now.  After
the
> >watching the movie it only got worse.  Now its like I prefer this era
over
> >the modern era.  Amazing cuz just one week ago I was contemplating
getting
> >F12k.  I'm new to these sims...but man GPL is just an awesome feel.

> >Saint19


> >>I suggest you rent the movie "Grand Prix" starring James Garner.
> >>This movie was shot in 1966 and shows the F1 cars of the time.
> >>There are many in-car shots and some of the shots are from real GP's.
> >>This should give you a better frame of reference to compare to GPL.
> >>Then please post back with your updated opinions on GPL physics <g>

> >>Cheers,
> >>...Colin


> Remove the Spam blocker to reply

Ruud van Ga

Nascar 3 physics versus GPL

by Ruud van Ga » Thu, 13 Apr 2000 04:00:00

On Tue, 11 Apr 2000 12:51:39 -0500, "2_Slow"

...

Which is a paradox, since no-one could race in real cars and be good
enough to be up there with the best in 'a couple of weekends'. So to
have a racing sim like you (and yes, probably the majority of virtual
racers today) want would mean making the simulation easier than real
life.
It's a matter of taste; jumping into a game and driving a few laps and
the quitting again (the NFS crowd), and really learning how to drive
with as much detail as possible (GPL). I like F12000 very much, but
the feel of the car that GPL has (esp. with FF) is much better. And
when you DO get quite a feel for the GPL cars, they tend to be quite
forgiving even. If you don't want to learn to drive for real, stick to
the simpler NFS-type of racing games. If you're into more realism, try
GPL. Just a matter of taste. But it can be independently measured that
GPL has more realistic handling than any other sim/game on the market
today.

Denial? It's a difficult game, and even if it does/would not represent
the actual era correctly, it is still a fun and rewarding game. And I
don't think the GPL cars are that hard to drive anymore. It was just a
matter of some practice. Learning to DRIVE better. Which is something
you can't learn from a lot of other sims to this level. Yes, many
people have the idea they are now driving better than they used to. In
fact, my kart times (in real life) have dropped because I now brake
faster and drive better thought-out lines than before GPL. Something
which I can't really learn from a lot of other sims. F12K is quite
good in that respect, although the cars handle a bit on the edge most
of the time. GPL is better to learn how to drive smooth.
No signs of denial here.

Well, the majority of the buyers just didn't want to invest such a
long time in conquering the game. Just like the fact that I'm not
buying adventures anymore cause I don't want to spend so much time on
it. I like racing far better.
You may call it a thumbs down, I see it as just a nice market. We're
both right in our perspectives ofcourse.

Ok, so?

No, F12K is quite ok. I just hope GP3 is better. It might even have me
leave GPL if good enough. But as long as GPL has the best realism,
there will be a group of people discussing it. F12K is good, so
there's a lot of talk about it. More so even because there are so many
detailistic problems with it. (now was that a word, detailistic? ;-)

But well, the comparison between racing and passenger cars was
ofcourse a bit of a not-thought-over idea. I don't think Schumacher in
his modern F1 car can park his F1 car as easily as I can in my
passenger car, but that's comparing apples and pears, so why are you?

Ruud van Gaal
MarketGraph / MachTech: http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Art: http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Gregor Vebl

Nascar 3 physics versus GPL

by Gregor Vebl » Thu, 13 Apr 2000 04:00:00


> On Tue, 11 Apr 2000 12:51:39 -0500, "2_Slow"

> >   The fact is GPL was/is an unmitigated turd at the sales counter, and
> >most, nay nearly all, in the sim racing community gave it a thumbs down
> >and took a pass on the title.

> Well, the majority of the buyers just didn't want to invest such a
> long time in conquering the game. Just like the fact that I'm not
> buying adventures anymore cause I don't want to spend so much time on
> it. I like racing far better.

The reason for GPL not selling many copies is much more trivial. I
talked to a salesperson at a games shop, and he said that no matter how
good a game/sim GPL is, these 'old formulas' simply do not appeal to the
majority of buyers (mainly ***agers). They want to be Hakkinens or
Shumachers, funny sounding names like Brabham appeal only to the
*** F1 crowd.

-Gregor

David Ewin

Nascar 3 physics versus GPL

by David Ewin » Thu, 13 Apr 2000 04:00:00


> Wow.  This is a great thread!  I've only got a Pentium 60, so can't play GPL
> yet.  I wanted it so bad when it first came out I asked the guy when it would
> be released...He said he never heard of it!  Long time ago.   Someday.....Need
> a hot computer!

Pentium 60?  And I was getting depressed becaue I only have a 400. What are you
playing on that thing?

Dave Ewing

--
*****************************************************
David A. Ewing

*****************************************************

Eldre

Nascar 3 physics versus GPL

by Eldre » Thu, 13 Apr 2000 04:00:00



>> Hehe, who are YOU kidding?!?  I'll probably do well to break 120's...<g>

>Try setting shifting to "auto" until you get familiar with the track and
>the setup, most of the "fast guys" are faster with "manual" I suppose,
>personally I use the gears to judge my entry speed into the corners, but
>using "auto" for a while will let you focus on your lines and braking
>and turn in points, there used to be a replay of a good lap at the "Team
>Mirage" web page, but the site is under reconstruction so it has been
>removed for the time being

I'm comfortable enough with manual shifting now that I don't think that's an
issue.  After being convinced about a year ago to shift in GPL, I do it in
every racing game I play now.  It's now as difficult as it seemed when I
started.  I haven't had time to run the Glen in N3 yet, so I'll have to get
back to you with my times...

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Own Grand Prix Legends?  Goto  http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Eldre

Nascar 3 physics versus GPL

by Eldre » Thu, 13 Apr 2000 04:00:00



>Different ball game altogether. No real comparisons possible given the
>aero doodads. Now you need a foam *** ass and shocks on your
>eyeballs. One thing hasn't changed though. You still have to clank
>when you walk.

LOL!  What an expression...<g>

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Own Grand Prix Legends?  Goto  http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

2_Slo

Nascar 3 physics versus GPL

by 2_Slo » Thu, 13 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Things I've learned in this thread:

  GPL was coded by God, himself. He apparantely worked it on during the
evenings of the fifth and sixth days. He released it on a Monday.

   Users of the sim, after acquiring sufficient time with it, report
some sort of religious epiphany. From this point forward they are
totally converted to GPLism.

   Once converted to GPLism, their faith mantains, that they cannot
admit that GPL is in any way, less than perfect. Every feature of a 1967
Gran Prix car is captured in flawless detail within the sim according to
the GPL zealots. And of course, there were no bugs in the sim. After
all, God did code it.

   Their sect also mantains, that they attempt to convert heathens and
sinners to the cult. They attempt to accomplish this by looking for some
innocent soul, who is foolish enough to post to R.A.S., "I just got
Nascar Racing 2015. Boy is it cool." Of course, we know it cannot be
cool, since it is not GPL. The cult members will then set upon this
hapless individual, attempting to convert his path to the one true sim.

   If the conversion process should fail, which it often does, the
followers are prone to walk away mumbling to themselves  ("Quantity does
not equal quality", "They race like slot cars", "One hour setup wonders"
"They go around the corner as if on rails"). No one outside of the sect,
much cares.

   You can do something. Go to the house of a GPList. Ringing the
doorbell or knocking on the door will do little good. They won't answer
anyway.

   Open the door, listen carefully. If they are in the midst of a
religious ceremony, you should here something like, "Crap, spun out! Oh

   Carefully sneak up and unplug the power cord to thier computer. You
might notice they cease all movements and a blank expression on thier
face, as you break the trace. This is normal.

   Take them by the hand and lead them outside. Go for a walk, to the
park, shoot some hoops (they won't be very good at this), but be
patient. It's been quite a while since they've been out.

   When you hear a slight popping noise and they suddenly speak, for no
appararent reason, "well yes, the brakes do seem to lock up a bit too
much", they are well on the road to recovery.

  2_Slow
  Just say no

Don Scurlo

Nascar 3 physics versus GPL

by Don Scurlo » Thu, 13 Apr 2000 04:00:00



For F1 and Indy street races they actually have to weld down the steel man hole
covers so that the vacuum doesn't suck them up.

--
Don Scurlock
Vancouver,B.C.

JTW620

Nascar 3 physics versus GPL

by JTW620 » Thu, 13 Apr 2000 04:00:00

  Sounds like my kinda sim!  What kind of games do I play on my Pentium 60?
Indycar Racing II, Simcity 2000, hmmm...  Nascar II...  GPL sounds great.  I
like realism.

Todd
http://PerformanceSimulations.com

Bruce Kennewel

Nascar 3 physics versus GPL

by Bruce Kennewel » Fri, 14 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Mr. Hym, I empathise with you in some small way, sir.  Although not involved
in hot rodding I was involved in club-level sports car racing....MG Midget
1969.  That _was_ in 1969!!
Now, 30 years later, family grown up, I keep young with an MGB and TC and am
still involved in club-level activities :-)
See...it _is_ possible not to grow up!! :-)

--
Regards,
Bruce Kennewell,
Canberra, Australia.
---------------------------


> Well, thats the way we car guys still talk here in Southern
> California, the cradle of hot rodding. When I was a nipper, I had a 51
> Ford Tudor, Flattie. Black lacquer, louvres, Potvin cam, Edelbrock
> heads and manifold. Oh, and chrome acorn nuts. Vertex mag. Lots of
> sweet stuff. I also had a MG-TD. Ran that at Ascot. J.C. Agajanian
> opened this dirt oval up on Thursday(?) nights to sporty car types to
> pump attendence. Triple R provided competition licenses to anybody
> with a "sports car" who was warm to the touch. I was 16.

> My dad was member number 15, or close to that, in the NHRA. He later
> built the first fiber glass sportscar kit. Yesterday, after lunch, a
> friend of mine pulled out in his orginal T-roadster small block daily
> driver and lit the tires on State Street in Santa Barbara. He talks
> like this too.

> Speaking of movies, there is a bomb B movie called Johnny Dark. The
> two featured cars were my dad's.

> Hot Rods forever. Sports cars on Sunday, Canyon race bikes a couple of
> times a month. You'll stay young forever. Or, maybe you'll just never
> grow up.

> On Wed, 12 Apr 2000 22:03:30 +1000, "Bruce Kennewell"

> >Wow!!
> >That's REAL "racin' talk". :-) I'm sitting here reading this post and
it's
> >like listening to the dialogue from an old 40's B-grade movie featuring
> >Ronald Reagan and George Raft! All we need is to have Walter Brennan
playing
> >the part of the crusty-yet-lovable old mechanic!


> Remove the Spam blocker to reply

Eldre

Nascar 3 physics versus GPL

by Eldre » Fri, 14 Apr 2000 04:00:00



>Things I've learned in this thread:

>  GPL was coded by God, himself. He apparantely worked it on during the
>evenings of the fifth and sixth days. He released it on a Monday.

>   Users of the sim, after acquiring sufficient time with it, report
>some sort of religious epiphany. From this point forward they are
>totally converted to GPLism.

>   Once converted to GPLism, their faith mantains, that they cannot
>admit that GPL is in any way, less than perfect. Every feature of a 1967
>Gran Prix car is captured in flawless detail within the sim according to
>the GPL zealots. And of course, there were no bugs in the sim. After
>all, God did code it.

>   Their sect also mantains, that they attempt to convert heathens and
>sinners to the cult. They attempt to accomplish this by looking for some
>innocent soul, who is foolish enough to post to R.A.S., "I just got
>Nascar Racing 2015. Boy is it cool." Of course, we know it cannot be
>cool, since it is not GPL. The cult members will then set upon this
>hapless individual, attempting to convert his path to the one true sim.

>   If the conversion process should fail, which it often does, the
>followers are prone to walk away mumbling to themselves  ("Quantity does
>not equal quality", "They race like slot cars", "One hour setup wonders"
>"They go around the corner as if on rails"). No one outside of the sect,
>much cares.

>   You can do something. Go to the house of a GPList. Ringing the
>doorbell or knocking on the door will do little good. They won't answer
>anyway.

>   Open the door, listen carefully. If they are in the midst of a
>religious ceremony, you should here something like, "Crap, spun out! Oh

>   Carefully sneak up and unplug the power cord to thier computer. You
>might notice they cease all movements and a blank expression on thier
>face, as you break the trace. This is normal.

>   Take them by the hand and lead them outside. Go for a walk, to the
>park, shoot some hoops (they won't be very good at this), but be
>patient. It's been quite a while since they've been out.

>   When you hear a slight popping noise and they suddenly speak, for no
>appararent reason, "well yes, the brakes do seem to lock up a bit too
>much", they are well on the road to recovery.

>  2_Slow
>  Just say no

Y'know, I think this was pretty funny!  Obviously over-exaggerated, but still
funny...<g>  I guess I haven't had enough time in the program yet...  But then
again, I'm an atheist, so I couldn't have a 'religious' experience... :-).

Eldred

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Own Grand Prix Legends?  Goto  http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Andrew MacPhers

Nascar 3 physics versus GPL

by Andrew MacPhers » Fri, 14 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Empty vessels.

Andrew McP

Graeme Nas

Nascar 3 physics versus GPL

by Graeme Nas » Fri, 14 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Things I've learned:

Some people think road cars are comparable in performance to F1 cars.

Some people don't realise that technology can advance in a period of 33
years.

Some people can be thought of as GPL "zealots" because they try to make
sense of some idiot's "creative" views on physics...

Troll threads like this can provide amu***t :-)

--
Cheers!
Graeme Nash


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