rec.autos.simulators

Schmacher's Ferrari has them today.

Bandini's did not in '67.

A modern CART car could drive upside down in a tunnel at 100mph, it
generates enough downforce to stick.  I'd imagine the F1 cars aren't too far
off of that.  The era simmed in GPL had no downforce, skinnier tires that
aren't nearly as advanced as today's, and quite a bit of horsepower - seems
like they should drive about how they do.  I'm not positive it's 100%
accurate, but those cars should be a handful like they are in GPL.  You also
know the main reason the suspensions are as stiff as they are on modern
open-wheel cars is due to the wings and the downforce, don't you?

--
Ken's Sig 3.01

"Who is the more foolish?  The fool, or the fool who follows him?"
 - Obi-Wan Kenobi

Go #43 and #44!

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Own Grand Prix Legends?  Goto  http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Slow arse ;-)

Fast road course drivers on the Papyrus old engine simply use road course
techniques and apply them with the help of some holes in the physic flaws.
Goy, me, Jure and all other known Nascar road course drivers could really
take that chicane at incredible speed.  You just need to know the correct
racing technique, and know the imperfection of the game engine.  Exploit
both, and you can do fast laps.  It was still an incredible pleasure to do
high 126's on the NROS (until somebody like Fastkev got us all with a
127!!!!).

It'll be quite more difficult in N4 Goy eh? ;-D    I really want to go two
wide with you in the esses at the N4 SPoint!

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.WeRace.net
-- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Modern F1 uses wings, quite large wings to create a large amount of
downforce, they use very stiff suspension (most of the movement is in the
tyres) and they use sticky tyres which are developed at massive cost to keep
the cars pointed in the right direction.

1967 F1 cars had no downforce, soft suspension (compared to modern F1) and
skinny  tyres with hardly any grip from the hard *** which would last a
few races.
No wonder they handle so differently !!!

May I suggest that you actually watch some footage from a 1960's F1 race,
you will see that the cars do indeed slide around a lot, sort of like they
do in GPL.

Oh and BTW, where were the bugs in the GPL demo ? It worked flawlesly for
me.

As for the difference between N3 and GPL, its like night and day, GPL
responds in a way you would expect a real F1 car ( of 1967) to react to your
inputs, NASCAR 3 just doesn't, you can't lock the brakes and the wheelspin
is on or off (and only at the start)
--
Ian Parker
==

For those of you who didn't get it at that point (obviously there are
some!), that was an IRONY. It was targeted towards the people with no
knowledge of race car dynamics who buy an old BMW 3 series, lower the
front, stiffen the suspension all around to the point of rigidity, spray
some signal color over the body and then they have a racecar that makes
you see a doctor for spine problems every once in a while, not to
mention the fact that the chassis shudders just at the thought of
entering only but the smoothest of corners at more than 20kph.

Just to make it official what my opinion really is, no irony here. Any
racecar that does not rely on aerodynamic grip (like the GPL cars) and
encounters less than perfectly smooth surfaces needs a softer suspension
which does not throw the whole car around on each bump but just the
respective wheel. The suspension stiffnes is for such cars a copromise
between response (harder suspension) and grip (softer suspension).

-Gregor

   Nod. Whenever I escaped from a race back to the menus, my machine
would lock up tight on me. Only way to get out of it was power off and
back on. I grew weary of watching scandisc run on a 40 gb hard drive. I
deep sixed the bug infested ***.
   I won't even get into the graphic anomalies or the granny shifting in
the demo.

   2_Slow

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/
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Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/
"The Pits"    http://www.theuspits.com/

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He also did our Sears and Bull Run setups....:-)

Did Fasrkev really do a 127 ?

Not bad, but it doesn't surprise me, I did a bit of guest driving in his
Oscar division, that was not pretty :-)

And yes, the way you could run the inner loop in N2 was not good and
made for some serious warps online, maybe the prediction code didn't
expect us to run those lines through there ? :-)

I so look forward to N4 and hope it will sort out the hotlappers from
the racers and that you will have to use both the brake and gas pedal as
they were meant to be used, with a bit of feeling instead of just
stomping on them

Having said that, I did a bit of practicing at Sears with a teammate
that lives in the UK, and with a good host (we both have ISDN) you can
race very close in N3 and do a bit of bumping in a way that would have
sent you into the scenery in N2 on TEN, too bad we don't have a TEN like
system to race on, as I've said before, the racing can be very good in
N3 even if the driving model sucks

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/
"The Pits"    http://www.theuspits.com/

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"Goy Larsen" wrote

I lost a lot time from N2 in the inner loop, and also in the final turn. I
can't seem to carry as much speed through there so my speed down the first
straight suffers and drags down my overall time probably as much as the
inner loop.

Have you had the chance to try the converted N3 tracks in GPL yet Goy? I
think running the tracks in GPL is probably better practice for N4 than N3
is, and certainly much more fun.

Argh, no, real life issues are getting in the way of my sim racing these
days, just can't seem to find the time anymore, probably backlogged from
all the time I spent on TEN and in the TPTCC over the past couple of
years :-)))

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/
"The Pits"    http://www.theuspits.com/

* Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way *
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If you are talking about modern day F1 cars, it might have something to do
33 years development. 67 cars did not have massive grooved Tyres, barn door
wings and other aerodynamic appendages that require a stable platform to
work efficiently. They were not built of composite materials or had pushrod
/ pullrod inboard suspension systems that have less movement than the total
amount of tyre deflection.

Tyres back then were HARD, treaded and lasted several races. They were
little more than road tyres.

How many 67 cars have you seen perform in the flesh?

Really. OK professor.  My eyes must have been very poor in all the years
that I've been watching these things perform in the flesh.

Let's see you back up your arguments with some factual evidence rather than
pumping out opinionated garbage.

MS

   I owned two '67 passenger cars. A '67 Impala and a '67 Ford Galaxy. I
also owned a '65 Buick Skylark GS. All three of these cars had less body
roll, stiffer suspensions, and better tire grip, than that displayed by
the physics engine in GPL.

   Either:

   A) American made passenger cars of that era were vastly superior to
Gran Prix cars, which I highly doubt.

   B) The physics in GPL is inaccurate.

   Also, my three in the tree, shifted much smoother than those granny
shifting transmissions depicted in GPL. I've always admired F1 drivers
for the way they go through the gears. It's just, rev, rev, rev. GPL
seems to be rev, pause, ka-lunk, rev. Not very realistic imo.

   It may be very fun to race this sim, though it seems best suited for
hardware three years old or so, about the same era as Doom.

   2_Slow