rec.autos.simulators

Michael.

As wonderful as the full blown version will be, we will no longer be able
to simply compare times, without going into painful detail about the exact
car setup.  I guess racing against each other on the net will certainly
make up for it, but for those of us who just drive a few laps before
bedtime,  we simpletons will lose the ability to see, simply, who the best
driver is (going by time only.)

--
Thanks,

Kurt, who's sick of spam.  Change "server" to "servr."

I appreciate your comments, but I disagree slightly.  What type of
controller are you using?  I am doing times only a second or so out of the
fastest time set by Dave Mansell on the Monza and Watkins Glen tracks (I'll
send proof if req!)  but I'm using a ***worn out Thrustmaster F1 wheel
with T1 pedals.  Both have terribly bad spikes that are hard to 'dial' out
but are managable.  The wheel has a bit a slip when you take it from lock to
lock as per all of their damn wheels (I had the T1 same prob).

Dave on the other hand apparently enjoys the total racing experience in one
of Australia's Hyperstimulators, one of the best sim***pit/controllers
around.  People using this system don't have to mount it to a desk, have the
right seating position and a close to unbreakable controller.

This is not sour grapes, I want to get one in the near future and I am so
convinced that this is the only difference.  So while the cars at present in
the demo are 100% compatible the difference in many of the times is in what
controller you use!

Comments?

Regards,
Matt Wilson

It bothered me especially in NFS, because that's a sim with production
cars. I mean, if you'd buy an expensive car like that, would you really
start messing with it and changing the break bias or anything? I know I
wouldn't.

Perhaps the time has come that you need to hire an engineer for your
race sim :-)

// Johan.

I strongly disagree with the above. You also need to consider that not
everyone has the same driving style nor indeed are as adaptable in
driving style. You may ultimately be a better driver than me, but if
the setup in the demo better suits my driving style, OR if I can
better adapt my style to fit it then I will be shown as the better
driver. This would be misleading.

It is practically impossible to compare who is the best "driver", in
fact the only way to do so would be by first developing the perfect
setup for each (removing setup differences by giving each their
perfect setup rather than forcing one upon them which may suit one
better than the other). Having done so you could then let them try to
get the most out of themselves in a car which gives them confidence
and doesn't force a change in driving style. That would tell you the
better "driver".

Cheers!
John

I'm not too sure about that. One of the other testers drives with a
joystick, and has a faster time around Watkins Glen than the gamestats
record and indeed all the other testers. Some of the Papy guys also
use 'sticks and are very, very fast. It's just a case of getting used
to the controller.

Cheers!
John

As a prime example look how often real F1 drivers struggle with their
team-mates setup if forced to use their car.

Its also why downloading setups for sims from the net seldom leads to the
improvements anticipated as driving styles are so diverse.

Tony

at the top levels of racing setting up the car is THE thing that
seperates best from the rest.  Do u really think Jeff Gordon can drive
in circles better than anyone else? No.  He wins all the time b/c he
gets the suspension of his car *Perfectly* hooked up to the racing
line.  Watch a WC race real close and u will be able to see this.  When
the guys with the same car in the back are sliping and sliding Gordons'
car stays solid.  This is b/c of his amazing ability to set his car up
perfectly.    On www.speedcenter.com last year Alex Z. said setting up
the car is everything to him, he drives slow untill he gets the setup
right then if he gets it hooked up perfectly he can drive as fast as he
wants.  After the race in japan this year Rahal said his car was, "on
rails" twice in a 1 min intervew.  This means the same thing, the car
feels like it is on rails when the setup fits the driver and track
perfectly

well I guess u could say that but it dosen't mean anything b/c Cars in
NFS and other arcade games are not used for racing in real life, they
are showroom items only.Ask any real racer if he would rather have a day
to race a 125cc shifter kart at Mid Ohio or drive a $500,000 car through
school zones at 20mph and u will see what I mean

No less then Ray Evernham said that a setup is made from driver comments
and driver suggestions.  The driver is most responsible for setting up
the car, not the engineer, at least in WC and CART (this might not be
true in modern day F1)

not at all.  As with ICR2 and GP2  the fastest drivers will probably let
their setups be known so you can just download a fast setup/replay, and
try to match the replay with the setup.  Of course this dosen't usually
work b/c u need a setup that fits you as much as it fits the track, as
sombody else has said in response to this thread . . .L8er

You like to adjust the car to your driving, I like to adjust my driving to
the car. I bet you don't like NFS at all, do you? It's my favorite, because
it has different cars (almost) without any setup possibilities. The cars are
modelled really well, which gives each car it's own characteristic handling.
So the issue in this sort of driving sim is getting to know the car really
well, getting to know the track really well, and then adjust your driving in
such a way that you can move the car perfectly over that track.

The thing that I find most important about driving sims is that the car's
handling must be as realistic as possible. NFS achieves this goal better
than any other sim I've seen. Perhaps this has also something to do with the
fact that I've never driven e.g. a F1 car and that therfore I cannot tell if
a F1 sim is realistic.

It seems that GPL also has some very realistic handling, so I'll probably
buy that one too. Who knows... it might change my view.

// Johan

Dave
DmndDave

.)

True, but is that because those people had more time to learn the track
AND had more time to get to know the car AND/OR had more time to get
their setup right?

What you say is true, but adds nothing to the discussion.

// Johan

Still, the main thing in GPL will be online racing, and that requires
you to be clean, not necessarily fast. Hopefully more fun can come
from the racing each other than chasing the clock.

I look forward to seeing you on the track when it's released :-)

Cheers!
John

I have have to disagree slightly  because different drivers have different
driving styles and need different setups just as in real life ! I do however
agree that the drivers who are fast with demo will probably also be fast in
the final game. Different cars also need different setups to be fast!

Kari
remove -spam- ..... :-)

No, I don't. To be precise I actually liked NFS _very_ much, but have
thought the others in the series since then have been crap, as the
Test Drive series has been.

ahem....okay....

Cheers!
John