rec.autos.simulators

GP2 Review in PC Gamer

Fraser Mun

GP2 Review in PC Gamer

by Fraser Mun » Fri, 26 Jan 1996 04:00:00

Thanks to whoever pointed me towards this months issue of
PC Gamer magazine and their review of Grand Prix 2.

For those who haven't managed to get their hands on this
magazine, here are a few interesting points:

* The in-game graphics look really good. The wing mirrors
are up and running and, unlike ICR2, show exactly the
same type of graphics as the player sees out front
( i.e. textures etc.. ).

* Most of the game engine is written entirely in assembler,
a medium which author Geoff Crammond appears to be very
happy working in. Many of the routines ( such as the 'lighting'
algorithm ) are said to be highly optimised.

* The reviewer praises the sound in the game - very realistic
but never annoying.

* Both the games VGA and SVGA modes get the 'thumbs up', the
VGA mode being described as much crisper than most games VGA
mode.

* They reckon that you can get good SVGA performance out of a
P-90 and VGA out of a 486-66. You can 'toggle' a whole load
of graphics options, both for the normal views and even for
the wing-mirrors! The reviewer reckons you can get 25 fps out
of a P-90 system in SVGA mode with all graphics options on.
I am highly dubious about this, given that about 4.8 times as
many pixels have to be coloured for SVGA mode as VGA mode....
It would also mean that Papyrus's graphics engine wasn't too
hot as that can't manage 25 fps on a P-133!

* They give the game 95% and say that they can't find any faults
in it... I wonder how much Microprose are paying these guys!

Fraser

John Wallac

GP2 Review in PC Gamer

by John Wallac » Fri, 26 Jan 1996 04:00:00



Careful Frase, you're talking about the game I want to marry...... It'll
be haggises at 10 paces if I hear another word against GP2 (in the
traditional Scottish manner!).

Cheers!
John

--
John Wallace (Edinburgh)

Turnpike evaluation. For information, see http://www.turnpike.com/

Robert Berryhi

GP2 Review in PC Gamer

by Robert Berryhi » Sat, 27 Jan 1996 04:00:00


>Thanks to whoever pointed me towards this months issue of
>PC Gamer magazine and their review of Grand Prix 2.
>the wing-mirrors! The reviewer reckons you can get 25 fps out
>of a P-90 system in SVGA mode with all graphics options on.
>I am highly dubious about this, given that about 4.8 times as
>many pixels have to be coloured for SVGA mode as VGA mode....
>It would also mean that Papyrus's graphics engine wasn't too
>hot as that can't manage 25 fps on a P-133!

I also find this *very* unbelievable.  One big consideration, however,
is if they have also improved the physics of the game to incorporate
gravity (as Papyrus has long done) & if they are taking in to count
the many car related physics involved or if this is just another F1GP
w/ prettier graphics.  Those differences could well make up the
difference in frame rates, but we'll have to see.


Austin, Tx
============================================================
Scott Pruett 1996 PPG Cup Champion!
============================================================

Glenn Davi

GP2 Review in PC Gamer

by Glenn Davi » Sun, 28 Jan 1996 04:00:00

Looking at the screenshots in the magazines I just love the way the
suspension moves independently when a wheel hits a curb.

BTW hasn't that interview with Sir Geoff been published before if not
in the same magazine then in another by the same publisher. Some of it
sounded *very* familiar...


Carlos Miguel Cordei

GP2 Review in PC Gamer

by Carlos Miguel Cordei » Sun, 28 Jan 1996 04:00:00


>...
> ... The reviewer reckons you can get 25 fps out
>of a P-90 system in SVGA mode with all graphics options on.
>I am highly dubious about this, given that about 4.8 times as
>many pixels have to be coloured for SVGA mode as VGA mode....
>Fraser

First of all, thanks for the info.

I promised myself not to get carried more in the endless discussion
about the frame rate since were supossed to have the game in a short
period of time (I hope!) and then well know.

However, although I am a bit ceptical about the review saying that it
will run at 25 FPS in a P90 I also think that is it possible ... at
least if you turn off some of the graphics detail in the game (but
still run it in SVGA and with some textures).

It is true that youll have about 4.8 many pixels than the VGA mode,
but dont forget that changing from VGA to SVGA will only affect some
part of the calculation - the rendering of the frames.

Grand Prix 2, as well as other 3D simulation game have 3 critical
parts where the the computer will spend a lot of time:

i) The simulation it self (where all the physics calculations will be
done);
ii) The 2D to 3D scene and textures transformations + cliping;
iii) and finally the rendering of the frames.

In each of these three parts the computer will have to spend his time
in order to present each of the XX frames per second.  
Now comes the good part, changing from a VGA to SVGA resolution will
only mean an increase of processing power (i.e. in time CPU spends) in
the final part - the rendering of the scene.

Therefore, many calculations that have been posted to this NG, stating
that well need a proporcional increase in MHz to achieve the same
increase in FPS are very wrong (of course there are other reasons to
it too) - We wont need a 4.8 times better machine to go from VGA to
SVGA. We shoul need less than that (thanks to god!)

The increase of power well need I dont know, I suspect that only
Geoff and his team knows since they know how much time the processor
spends calculating in each of the parts.  That increase in processing
depends on lots of factors like:

1 - The proportion of the rendering time in respect to the other two
parts;
2 - How well the texture mapping (and lighting) is optimized so that
the rendering is done with less effort (using fast texture mapping - I
know it can be done using only a multiply operation for each line of
the polygon, and that it is very fast when done in assembler);
3 - The speed of the video board in the SVGA modes, and the drivers;
4 - How well they optimized the code to use a Pentium (dont forget
that the pentium is more or less 1.8 times powerful on integer
operations but it is also 4 to 5 times in floating point ops - so
using Pentium FP unit in the rendering part will have a dramatically
increase of power).
....
etc.

I believe that since the main engine of GP2 is programed in assembler
(see PC Gamer Mag), then the game should be highly optimized to run at
SVGA even with textures and lightning efects.  I believe that if you
can run the game well in VGA with a 486 DX66 in these conditions, then
youll be able to run it with a P90 at the same level of detail in
SVGA.  The question I ask myself is:

Is the game so optimized so that you can run the game in VGA with a
486 DX66 with a good level of detail ?   If you do, then It should run
well in a P90 in SVGA. Thats my believe.

Lets wait and see. All these news in the PC Gamer magazine is very
bad to me, I cant wait no more to play it.

Anybody wants to write the full text of the GP2 article ?

Greetings

    Miguel

-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
Carlos Miguel Santos Cordeiro


-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-

Andy Jacks

GP2 Review in PC Gamer

by Andy Jacks » Sun, 28 Jan 1996 04:00:00

: is if they have also improved the physics of the game to incorporate
: gravity (as Papyrus has long done) & if they are taking in to count
What??  If F1GP(1) does not include gravity, then why does the car
land back on the track after I've bounced over the kerbs?
At Monza for example, all four wheels can leave the ground if you get
the chicane wrong - but you soon land again!
--

Julian Lov

GP2 Review in PC Gamer

by Julian Lov » Sun, 28 Jan 1996 04:00:00

There was an interview with Crammond after the review. In it he says that
while the physics modelling of the cars is complex, the processor
occupancy due to the simulation is insignificant compared to that for the
graphics.

How complex this makes the simulation I do not know, but it seems to me
that this is to be expected - driving simulators are very graphics
intensive.

Jules

Julian Lov

GP2 Review in PC Gamer

by Julian Lov » Sun, 28 Jan 1996 04:00:00

There was an interview with Crammond after the review. In it he says that
while the physics modelling of the cars is complex, the processor
occupancy due to the simulation is insignificant compared to that for the
graphics.

How complex this makes the simulation I do not know, but it seems to me
that this is to be expected - driving simulators are very graphics
intensive.

Jules

Julian Lov

GP2 Review in PC Gamer

by Julian Lov » Sun, 28 Jan 1996 04:00:00

There was an interview with Crammond after the review. In it he says that
while the physics modelling of the cars is complex, the processor
occupancy due to the simulation is insignificant compared to that for the
graphics.

How complex this makes the simulation I do not know, but it seems to me
that this is to be expected - driving simulators are very graphics
intensive.

Jules

Gary Bro

GP2 Review in PC Gamer

by Gary Bro » Mon, 29 Jan 1996 04:00:00


chortled:



>>* They give the game 95% and say that they can't find any faults
>>in it... I wonder how much Microprose are paying these guys!

>Careful Frase, you're talking about the game I want to marry...... It'll
>be haggises at 10 paces if I hear another word against GP2 (in the
>traditional Scottish manner!).

>Cheers!
>John

Never, ever read anything into the score that is given to a new game by the
first magazine to read it. I'm not naive enough to believe that PC Gamer were
given first divs on GP2 by microprose for nothing. I'm sure they were the first
to review Frontier FE, and look at what a pile of shit that turned out to be
(another 90 something percent in their ratings). Check out the thread about
PCGamer on comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic for several long running threads
regarding the accuracy of PCG's reviews.

I'll wait for a review by PCZONE before making a judgement (although I'll still
buy the game the day it is released, sigh!).

================================================================

================================================================

Steve Pritchar

GP2 Review in PC Gamer

by Steve Pritchar » Mon, 29 Jan 1996 04:00:00

John,

A nice balanced view as always, I see. <g>

SteveP - F1SA HQ.

John Wallac

GP2 Review in PC Gamer

by John Wallac » Mon, 29 Jan 1996 04:00:00



You know me...!!

But really, imagine having the impertinence to question His Eminence Sir
Geoff Crammond and the second coming of his only child (GP2) who is
descending to earth in order to save his people from driving Indycars in
circles.

Taking a break from commish duties? Actually I've noticed you on here a
lot more recently, some well contructed posts as well. C-Serve has been
a bit "hot" recently with everyone fighting <G>, I'm keeping a low
profile here for a while!

Cheers!
John

--
John Wallace

Turnpike evaluation. For information, see http://www.turnpike.com/

COX J.

GP2 Review in PC Gamer

by COX J. » Tue, 30 Jan 1996 04:00:00



>Subject: Re: GP2 Review in PC Gamer
>Date: 27 Jan 1996 16:59:09 -0000

>: is if they have also improved the physics of the game to incorporate
>: gravity (as Papyrus has long done) & if they are taking in to count
>What??  If F1GP(1) does not include gravity, then why does the car
>land back on the track after I've bounced over the kerbs?
>At Monza for example, all four wheels can leave the ground if you get
>the chicane wrong - but you soon land again!
>--


AND if F1GP does not have gravity, then WHY is your car terribly slow at
the start of a 100% race, compared to the speed at the start of a, say,
10% race?!? EXPLAIN THIS TO ME!! You little piece of Papyrus lover!!
Stephen Ferguso

GP2 Review in PC Gamer

by Stephen Ferguso » Tue, 30 Jan 1996 04:00:00


>AND if F1GP does not have gravity, then WHY is your car terribly slow at
>the start of a 100% race, compared to the speed at the start of a, say,
>10% race?!? EXPLAIN THIS TO ME!! You little piece of Papyrus lover!!

Oops... someone wasn't paying attention in Physics class.  Don't confuse
gravity and inertia.  Bodies at rest and in motion and all that other
tricky stuff that, it seems, is best left to the simulator programmers.
Gravity has little to do with it (apart from traction).  

--
Stephen Ferguson

Michael E. Carv

GP2 Review in PC Gamer

by Michael E. Carv » Tue, 30 Jan 1996 04:00:00


: : is if they have also improved the physics of the game to incorporate
: : gravity (as Papyrus has long done) & if they are taking in to count
: What??  If F1GP(1) does not include gravity, then why does the car
: land back on the track after I've bounced over the kerbs?
: At Monza for example, all four wheels can leave the ground if you get
: the chicane wrong - but you soon land again!

I think the poster is referring to the fact that the car does not roll
on its own when stopped on an incline and the brake is off.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=


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