rec.autos.simulators

        Comments welcome, as a newbie tries to become a greenhorn.

        Dave

You are also correct in that buttons are all on or all off and you do not
get the gradations that a potentiometer (found in the pedals) will give you.
Also, in driving sims, as they become more realistic, you can split the
brake and gas axis and actually be braking and giving it the gas at the same
time. This is immensly helpful in trail-braking situations.

Just to clarify how much better a wheel and pedals would be the ONLY way to
drive a sim competitively, just try to imagine driving your street car with
a joystick or game pad. Unless you are paralyzed and have a very specific
rig to do so, it would be hairy at best.

BMW is developing a fly-by-wire (FBW) system that uses a joystick for
steering and gas/brake.  Luckily, there is a law that prevents FBW
systems as the only method to operate a vehicle.

I can't imagine driving a car with a joystick and probably won't be
buying a BMW, especially with a joystick :)

They then put them through a series of assessments of driving
ability, IIRC particularly emergency situations such as panic
lane changes.

The report found that those driving with joysticks did slightly
better than the conventional group.

If anyone's interested enough, I /think/ the report was in
Automotive Engineering (the magazine of the SAE) a few months
back, although I don't keep my copies long enough to check.

Personally, though, I'd prefer to have my throttle/brake axis
separated from my steering axis at least ;-)

Jonny

        Well, I'm using a joystick, which is linear for steering, right?  I
wouldn't dream of a keyboard or gamepad.

        I have separate brake and throttle buttons, so that's split axis.  And
pedal sets, those are split axis also.  So the only thing I'm missing the
the pots.

        I'm aware of the idea of adding a little throttle while braking in a
corner to keep balance and weight on the steering end.  Is this trail-
braking, or is trail-braking a different idea?  And until I get pot-
controlled throttle and brake, should I abandon such techniques (I think
the car physics are too accurate for blipping the throttle to work as a
substitute).

        Thanks a bunch.  I'm beginning to understand more already.

        Dave

Raymond
ACT LABS
www.act-labs.com

On 12 Dec 2001 09:36:02 -0600, David Geesaman

Even as we type, Mercedes R&D is coming up with a
drive-by-joystick car steering.

Prototype of that WERE  at car shows as early as 1980s.

That idea is NOT as hare-brained as you thought.

...
would be the ONLY way to
driving your street car with
have a very specific

I am using a joystick and has tried several wheels,
ferrari TM included.

You will still need to adjust to either device
regardless.
The wheel is NOT as intuitive as thought.

I found that if you are good as joystick , you could
beat a guy with
wheel.
Even though he is trail braking you, you could 4wheel
drift him quite well.

Only thing I like about the wheel is braking and accel
DO NOT interfere
with steering. With the joystick, in a heated moment
you could brake with
slight handshake and that affect the steering.

Some of the top GPL online racers are JOYSTICKERS .

message

..

:
more realistic, you can
braking and giving it the
that's split axis.  And
thing I'm missing the
end.  Is this trail-
throttle to work as a

My current proposal for advancing force feedback--do what MS and nVidia did
to Direct3D8 with programmable vertex shaders to DirectInput--create a
simple DSP-like byte code that could be compiled into microprograms that the
wheels could run in hardware, so the wheels could do prediction code without
having to USB back to the computer, wait for the next physics frame, USB
back to the wheel and from there to the motor--I think you could achieve a
really "tight" and responsive feel with this method and reduce or elliminate
the spiking and self-oscillation problems that are currently endemic to any
"non-canned" force feedback implementation, and a 30-cent CPU should be
powerful enough to implement this.