rec.autos.simulators

by **Crimso** » Thu, 05 Mar 1998 04:00:00

Sorry for the tone but the bullshit never stops.
Come on Sierra...Fix the ***ing thing!!

The order of the mail is from the bottom up as sent and reply.
I know it is a mess but read the whole and you will get it.

I also emailed Rendition and they said it is not there problem anymore.
It is Sierra's problem.
Email the hell out of them daily and they will come around..help me out.
Read on.
===================================================

To: Name -remove because of spammers.
Subject: RE: ICR2 or CART and RENDITION.
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:45:43 -0800

Hello,
I'm sorry but I have no information on a "real patch" for the 2nd
generation Rendition based cards. If you have purchased this product
within the last 30 days, I can offer you your choice of either a refund
or a credit of your purchase price toward the purchase of any of our
products direct from our catalog. If you purchased the game within 90
days, you can exchange the product. Please return only your original
game disks and all game specific documentation. Do not return your box
sleeve or any other literature included with the game.

Should you wish to use a credit of your purchase price to exchange for
another product, we will need the following:
1) The program (disks and game specific documentation)
2) Proof of purchase price (receipt)
3) A check, money order or charge card number for any difference between
the purchase price of the program you are returning and the chosen
product. The address is:

Sierra On-Line Exchanges/Returns
4100 West 190th Street
Torrance, CA 90504

Chris-Sierra Tech

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Name remove because of spammers
> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 1998 3:33 PM
> To: Hardware
> Subject: RE: ICR2 or CART and RENDITION.

> Hello Chris..

> The game does not run out of a dos prompt in windows.
> There is no differance between this version "CART" and the the version
that
> came with most rendition cards "ICR2 enhanced", except for the names
> of the executables..is there?
> Also why do MOST people who have a V2000..including "Swedbear" cannot get
> the game to run as well without farmer patches in windows?
>I want to to "WHEN" a real patch will be out...or I Im asking for a refund
> as of now from you on the basis of misleading and or false advertising.

> How do I get my money back?
> Thanks..
> ==========================================================

> >Hello, Unfortunately, CART Racing can't recognize the new v2x00
Rendition
> chips from DOS mode. This is currently being researched, but for now
you
> will need to run the game from Windows 95. You can do this through the
> >MS-DOS prompt, or from the Run option in the Start menu.

> >Please let us know if you need any further assistance, and include
> any previous messages with your reply. Many common problems and
> questions are answered in the CART Racing Troubleshooting Guide

(CARTTS.RTF), which is located in the WIN95\DESKTOP folder on the CART
Racing

- Show quoted text -

> CD-ROM.

> >Chris-Sierra Tech

> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From:
> >> Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 1998 11:24 PM

> >> Subject: ICR2 or CART and RENDITION.

> >> Ok.
> >> Is Sierra going to make a REAL patch for this game so it runs properly
> >> on a V2000 Rendition card? EVER??
> >> On the CART box is states "Rendition card".
> >> The V2100 and 2200s are Rendition cards.
> >> I am not willing to try all the Farmer patches out there, this is a
Sierra
> >> product and should be supported. Or is it false advertising?

"rendition card
recommended"
============================================================

by **Sean Ormon** » Thu, 05 Mar 1998 04:00:00

I sympathize with your problem, but I don't think you have any grounds to
complain... I think it's common knowledge that "CART Racing" is just a
repackaged ICR2 w/Rendition (V1000) support. It worked excellent with that
card and I know a lot of people are still enjoying it. While it would be nice,
I don't think Sierra/Papyrus is obligated to update their discontinued products
to support *all* possible future hardware releases...do you? It's hardly
"misleading and or false advertising", as you suggest. Your chipset didn't
even exist when the Rendition patches were released!

The only people you have to be upset at are Rendition (for not making their
V2000-series 100% backwards-compatible - apparently, it's not) and yourself
(for buying a Rendition card in the first place).

Sorry,
Sean

by **Pipe** » Thu, 05 Mar 1998 04:00:00

On Wed, 04 Mar 1998 13:37:58 -0500, Sean Ormond

>I sympathize with your problem, but I don't think you have any grounds to
>complain... I think it's common knowledge that "CART Racing" is just a
>repackaged ICR2 w/Rendition (V1000) support. It worked excellent with that
>card and I know a lot of people are still enjoying it. While it would be nice,
>I don't think Sierra/Papyrus is obligated to update their discontinued products
>to support *all* possible future hardware releases...do you? It's hardly
>"misleading and or false advertising", as you suggest. Your chipset didn't
>even exist when the Rendition patches were released!

>The only people you have to be upset at are Rendition (for not making their
>V2000-series 100% backwards-compatible - apparently, it's not) and yourself
>(for buying a Rendition card in the first place).

>Sorry,
>Sean

Surely Sean, your not one of those guys that believe the whole of
gamedom is on the net, links to this group and should therefore know
that this thing wont work with R2x00 chips.

Sorry mate, CART is a now product on the shelves a scant 3 months in
Sydney at least. The R2x00 cards are a now product also.

Fred Bloggs looking at the game today will expect that a game with
rendition ready on the box will work with his rendition based video
card. No ifs or buts.

Rgds
-
Piper

by **Dave Henri** » Thu, 05 Mar 1998 04:00:00

> Sorry for the tone but the bullshit never stops.
> Come on Sierra...Fix the ***ing thing!!
> (snipped for bandwidth, not content)

I think we need to look at the CARt package and see what it really is. I'd
be willing to guess that CART was repackaged only to have a product on the
shelves to draw attention from Microsoft's CART Precision Racing. Last year we
had no clue as to the merits of cpr but the screenshots certainly looked
promising. So Papy has no new product to compete, or rather to keep it's
identity in the marketplace. So they whipped up a new cd with the 3d patches,
dusted off an unprinted tech book and shipped it out the door.
Now what does this mean to us? Merely that ICR2 was a finished product 2
years ago and to this date continues to be a done product. Papy is moving full
steam on GPL, N3, and CART21/2(icr3?) Will they pull people off those
products, possibly endangering shipping dates etc to futz with a very finicky
program? Doubtful.
I am one of those who have a DSII and CART, I can run it somewhat
successfully but not completely yet...so yes, it is a concern, but I am not
looking to Sierra or Papy or Rendition to bail me out, I knew what I was
getting, But I agree there are many users who have no clue about V1k's and
V2k's. I would suggest the return the product.
These thoughts are my own and are not associated with any company.
dave henrie

by **Eric T. Busc** » Fri, 06 Mar 1998 04:00:00

It was only repackaged b/c Papy could no longer sell it using the name
Indycar.

--
Eric T. Busch

>I think we need to look at the CARt package and see what it really is.
I'd
>be willing to guess that CART was repackaged only to have a product on
the
>shelves to draw attention from Microsoft's CART Precision Racing.

by **Bruc** » Fri, 06 Mar 1998 04:00:00

That's all very deep and contemplative, David, but the simple reason that
it was just ICR2 re-packaged as CART is that the term IndyCar is no longer
applicable to what is now the CART series.

No plot, no ***, just legalities.
--
Bruce.

"I envy people who drink. At least they have something to blame everything
on."
(Oscar Levant)

by **Chuck Kandle** » Fri, 06 Mar 1998 04:00:00

> That's all very deep and contemplative, David, but the simple reason that
> it was just ICR2 re-packaged as CART is that the term IndyCar is no longer
> applicable to what is now the CART series.

> No plot, no ***, just legalities.

Or maybe a combination of the two. You know, convienient coincidences,
the need to rename & to draw attention from the Micro***product.

--
Chuck Kandler #70
K&S Racing
Need for Speed Racing

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Indycar driver, Craftsman truck driver, Virtual airline pilot, Flight
Simulator scenery designer, Webmaster, Auto technician, father &
husband....Who has time?

by **Michael E. Carve** » Fri, 06 Mar 1998 04:00:00

% That's all very deep and contemplative, David, but the simple reason that
% it was just ICR2 re-packaged as CART is that the term IndyCar is no longer
% applicable to what is now the CART series.

% No plot, no ***, just legalities.

Maybe! ;-) While I agree that the "Indycar" word had alot to do with
this, I can't help but believe that "marketing" also had something to do
with this. Since Papyrus has decided to keep their finger in the CART
pie, I also believe that the re-packaging was done to keep up public
awareness of their CART line (especially in an attempt to "compete" with
CPR for shelf space). Companies like Sierra don't survive and prosper
when they don't look out for their own best interest. It was a prudent
business/marketing decision which I believe was triggered by the
"Indycar" agreement between CART and Tony George. It's a little naive
to believe the "sole" purpose was to get a package out there without the
Indycar word.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

by **Byron Forbe** » Sat, 07 Mar 1998 04:00:00

> That's all very deep and contemplative, David, but the simple reason that
> it was just ICR2 re-packaged as CART is that the term IndyCar is no longer
> applicable to what is now the CART series.

> No plot, no ***, just legalities.
> --

Though true, it's not quite that simple! The "Indy" thing prompted
new packaging, manual and the very different 3D version. I have seen
Sierra milk other titles in the same manner. The 3D rendition part is
used as a selling point yet not properly supported. This is in effect a
new product by Sierra and they can't be bothered doing some minor
tweaking to make it all it appears to be. I'll bet a few programmers
could sit down for a few days tops and get it up to speed. Why in the
f&*% don't they? In fact, even though I don't even have a Rendition card
and am not personally effected by this, I'll still be disappointed if
Papy don't step forward and address this issue.

--
We are the Hosh! You will be assimilated! Lower your defences
and surrender! Your technological and biological distinctiveness
will be added to our own. Your culture will be adapted to
service us. Resistance is futile. Have a nice &*($ing day!

by **Byron Forbe** » Sun, 08 Mar 1998 04:00:00

> I sympathize with your problem, but I don't think you have any grounds to
> complain... I think it's common knowledge that "CART Racing" is just a
> repackaged ICR2 w/Rendition (V1000) support.

Common knowledge to those in the know, yes. But if you see a new
packaging/release then you would expect it to be up to date. When it was
first announced I thought it would have been a no brainer that it would
work with the V2K's. I know a lot of people who purchased CART Racing
even though they already had ICR2 thinking, and rightly so, that the
V2K's would run it and run it real well. Even if the V2K's were not on
sale yet it was certainly common knowledge that they were about to be.
In any case, surely it is in Sierra's and Rendition's interest to get
the thing working with the V2K's. I'm sure both would see significant
increases in sales if they did.

--
We are the Hosh! You will be assimilated! Lower your defences
and surrender! Your technological and biological distinctiveness
will be added to our own. Your culture will be adapted to
service us. Resistance is futile. Have a nice &*($ing day!

by **Jim Sokolof** » Mon, 09 Mar 1998 04:00:00

> Common knowledge to those in the know, yes. But if you see a new
> packaging/release then you would expect it to be up to date.

Doesn't it say right on the box something like "this is a re-release
of a product formerly known as IndyCar Racing 2"?

---Jim

by **Pipe** » Tue, 10 Mar 1998 04:00:00

>> Common knowledge to those in the know, yes. But if you see a new
>> packaging/release then you would expect it to be up to date.

>Doesn't it say right on the box something like "this is a re-release
>of a product formerly known as IndyCar Racing 2"?

>---Jim

"Previously Released as Indycar Racing II Features 1995 Season".

It also says.

"Rendition Ready"

"NEW! Rendition Ready for Super Speed
With a graphics accelerator card using Rendition technology, blah
blah."

Shows lots of Rendition screenshots. If fact looks like all shots are
from the Rendition version.

Supported " Rendition Video Card"

I think I know the point your trying to make Jim, however that
re-release bit does not cut it.

Someone had a go at fixing it with the beta patch. Why can't they just
finish the job and make a lot of folk happy.

What's your take on this situation?

Rgds
-
Piper

by **Byron Forbe** » Wed, 11 Mar 1998 04:00:00

> > Common knowledge to those in the know, yes. But if you see a new
> > packaging/release then you would expect it to be up to date.

> Doesn't it say right on the box something like "this is a re-release
> of a product formerly known as IndyCar Racing 2"?

"Re-release" would argue in my favour wouldn't it. And what does
this mean to a newbie with a new V2K that has never heard of ICR2
before. The fact is they have a newly packaged product on the shelves
that braggs about "Rendition" but does not point out the
non-compatibilty with V2K's. Many familiar with ICR2 purchased CART
Racing and V2K's thinking all would be fine. And why shouldn't they
have. It sounds to me that Verite and Sierra should get together and fix
it instead of using the slave labour that the web often offers.

by **Dave Henri** » Wed, 11 Mar 1998 04:00:00

One point I think your both missing is, that "newbies" don't have V2k
cards. Only those folks who are into racing Papyrus products or Sierra
junkies have purchased Rendition cards. I have talked to several "newbies"
at work and not one of them have any Idea what a Rendition card is. Only
folks that are "in the know" have swapped out theit original cards for
Rendition chipsets.
However, the impression I have seen here on the ng was that many
"experienced" users expected the CART repackaging to work out of the box
with the newer V2k's. This, despite the fact that rumours of ICR2 NOT
working with them have been around since about August of last year.
dave henrie

> > > Common knowledge to those in the know, yes. But if you see a new
> > > packaging/release then you would expect it to be up to date.

> > Doesn't it say right on the box something like "this is a re-release
> > of a product formerly known as IndyCar Racing 2"?

> "Re-release" would argue in my favour wouldn't it. And what does
> this mean to a newbie with a new V2K that has never heard of ICR2
> before. The fact is they have a newly packaged product on the shelves
> that braggs about "Rendition" but does not point out the
> non-compatibilty with V2K's. Many familiar with ICR2 purchased CART
> Racing and V2K's thinking all would be fine. And why shouldn't they
> have. It sounds to me that Verite and Sierra should get together and fix
> it instead of using the slave labour that the web often offers.

rec.autos.simulators

More ICR2 V2000 card Bullshit. Reply from Sierra Tech.

More ICR2 V2000 card Bullshit. Reply from Sierra Tech.

More ICR2 V2000 card Bullshit. Reply from Sierra Tech.

More ICR2 V2000 card Bullshit. Reply from Sierra Tech.

More ICR2 V2000 card Bullshit. Reply from Sierra Tech.

More ICR2 V2000 card Bullshit. Reply from Sierra Tech.

More ICR2 V2000 card Bullshit. Reply from Sierra Tech.

More ICR2 V2000 card Bullshit. Reply from Sierra Tech.

More ICR2 V2000 card Bullshit. Reply from Sierra Tech.

More ICR2 V2000 card Bullshit. Reply from Sierra Tech.

More ICR2 V2000 card Bullshit. Reply from Sierra Tech.

More ICR2 V2000 card Bullshit. Reply from Sierra Tech.

More ICR2 V2000 card Bullshit. Reply from Sierra Tech.

More ICR2 V2000 card Bullshit. Reply from Sierra Tech.

More ICR2 V2000 card Bullshit. Reply from Sierra Tech.