rec.autos.simulators

by **Larr** » Mon, 27 May 2002 07:50:36

Ok, I need to speak my mind on this...

For the first time, I joined in on the RAS race today. I was looking
towards some nice, clean racing with experienced people. People who I
thought respected others.

These are not two of my best tracks (Loudon and Indy). I'm not particularly
fast at flat tracks.

So, my goal was to finish the races without any damage, and just get some
laps in.

I accomplished that. I finished the Loudon race (8th), and didn't have a
scratch. One person said I put them into the wall. If I did, I'm sorry,
but I sure didn't feel any contact with ANYONE that whole race. If we were
that close, then it's entirely possible that a slight warp, air, or whatever
caused it. The point is, I never felt a thing, or saw a thing, and if I DID
know I caused something I would have been the first to apologize for it. I
don't rememer who was saying I wrecked them, but it was V-something.

I will most certainly look at the replay (I saved it), and will respond back
later after I see if I can find out what, exactly, you are referring to.

The only incident I KNOW I caused was during practice when I went inside of
someone a little too hot. I apologized for that after I had a chance to
think about it.

Now, for some reason beyond my comprehension, JSimmons was riding my ***at
Indy. I didn't do a thing to him, anywhere, at any time, ye he felt it was
necessary to come after me verbally.

And, for a grand finally, epickett ejected me during practice at Indy. As
best all I can tell, all I did was say that JSimmons mouth was getting to be
a bit much.

And, if I remember correctly, someone else told him this durning the Loudon
race as well.

But, I guess I'm not one of the "Good Ol' Boys", and I don't rank the
privilage of speaking my mind.

Compared to some of the incidents I saw, and the arguments that were going
on, I was a clean racer with a civil tongue. Some of the language used and
temperaments were far, far beyond anything _I_ could even think of doing.
Yet _I_ get ejected?

Ok, fine. I can live with that. But, I'm extremely disappointed in what I
saw today.

So, in short, this whole experience has completely ruined the RAS event for
me. I don't like what I saw, and I don't care to be a part of it.

If racing as clean as possible, and maintaining a civil tongue isn't enough,
then I sure don't know what is.

I don't need it. I've found more civilized Open races.

Finally, congratulations to Ian for winning Loudon. I would have liked to
race with you at Indy, but I guess it wasn't meant to be.

-Larry

by **jon** » Mon, 27 May 2002 08:09:47

I was in it too, and I thought it was great...
but then I have been racing 0-10 bristol races on papy servers for 2 days
trying to get my short track rating up. Got stuck behind the pace car on
that little yellow incident and put a lap down. Would have passed the guy in
front of me and the pace car, but wasn't sure about penalty. Would there
have been one if I had?

by **Larr** » Mon, 27 May 2002 08:23:42

Ok, I have gone and watched the entire replay to find this phantom incident
during the Loudon race.

And I found it.

In short, it was NO ONE's fault. View the replay and you will see why.

And after reviewing it 7 ways to Sunday, I'm afraid I must maintain that I
did not cause it, never got a scratch, never saw it, and never felt it.

If you look carefully for yourselves, you can see this too.

This incident in question is at time 23:59 in the race. The other car
involved was the 17 car driven by J Verschueren.

The best way to see this is to go to time 23:56 and change to my car, the 8
car. Then go to the Rear Chase view.

When you get close to the corner, stop, and use the single-frame advance
buttons.

It is very clear what happened.

You will first notice that my car had a smooth, consistent line all around
the corner and really didn't waver as much as a few inches. A little high
off the line, but reasonable.

However, the 17 car was jerking up and down from left to right. Quite a
bit, actually. This was not due to JU Verschueren's driving.

It was due to warp.

This is why I never felt a thing, and never saw a thing. My car made a
smooth turn through the corners, but the 17 car was jerking back and forth.
Again, this was not caused by J Verschueren's driving. It was being caused
by warp.

I'm not even really convinced that we ever truly touched. I would have to
believe I would have felt something, and my car would have at least bobbled
if we did, but as you can tell from the Replay my car didn't waver in the
slightest.

It is readily apparant that the physics engine induced the spin, due to the
warp that the 17 car was experiencing at the time.

I normally don't go through this much effort for something like this, but in
this case, given what transpired afterwards, I felt I really had no choice.

No apologies are necessary. It was just one of those things we have to live
with in online racing.

The only thing I would ask is that folks think about this stuff before they
paint a bullseye on someone.

We're all here to have fun. Let's keep it that way.

JV, I'm sorry ya took a hit, but it wasn't because of me :)

Thanks :)

-Larry

by **Larr** » Mon, 27 May 2002 08:29:34

It WAS a great race. I just could have done without all the Drama :)

That thing with 6 or 7 people going a Lap down was weird. I understand now
why it happened, but I don't understand exactly what should have been done
about it.

Someone was saying go around the pace car. I started to work up to that
several times, but as soon as I tried it my spotter was in my ear constantly
telling me to stay behind this car, stay behind that car, slow up, let him
pass! It was all so confusing.

I didn't want to risk a black flag, so like some others I just decided to
stay where I was and chalk it up to bad luck.

Papy needs to work on this.

-Larry

> I was in it too, and I thought it was great...
> but then I have been racing 0-10 bristol races on papy servers for 2 days
> trying to get my short track rating up. Got stuck behind the pace car on
> that little yellow incident and put a lap down. Would have passed the guy
in
> front of me and the pace car, but wasn't sure about penalty. Would there
> have been one if I had?

> > Ok, I need to speak my mind on this...

> > For the first time, I joined in on the RAS race today. I was looking
> > towards some nice, clean racing with experienced people. People who I
> > thought respected others.

> > These are not two of my best tracks (Loudon and Indy). I'm not
> particularly
> > fast at flat tracks.

> > So, my goal was to finish the races without any damage, and just get
some
> > laps in.

> > I accomplished that. I finished the Loudon race (8th), and didn't have
a
> > scratch. One person said I put them into the wall. If I did, I'm
sorry,
> > but I sure didn't feel any contact with ANYONE that whole race. If we
> were
> > that close, then it's entirely possible that a slight warp, air, or
> whatever
> > caused it. The point is, I never felt a thing, or saw a thing, and if I
> DID
> > know I caused something I would have been the first to apologize for it.
> I
> > don't rememer who was saying I wrecked them, but it was V-something.

> > I will most certainly look at the replay (I saved it), and will respond
> back
> > later after I see if I can find out what, exactly, you are referring to.

> > The only incident I KNOW I caused was during practice when I went inside
> of
> > someone a little too hot. I apologized for that after I had a chance to
> > think about it.

> > Now, for some reason beyond my comprehension, JSimmons was riding my
***
> at
> > Indy. I didn't do a thing to him, anywhere, at any time, ye he felt it
> was
> > necessary to come after me verbally.

> > And, for a grand finally, epickett ejected me during practice at Indy.
As
> > best all I can tell, all I did was say that JSimmons mouth was getting
to
> be
> > a bit much.

> > And, if I remember correctly, someone else told him this durning the
> Loudon
> > race as well.

> > But, I guess I'm not one of the "Good Ol' Boys", and I don't rank the
> > privilage of speaking my mind.

> > Compared to some of the incidents I saw, and the arguments that were
going
> > on, I was a clean racer with a civil tongue. Some of the language used
> and
> > temperaments were far, far beyond anything _I_ could even think of
doing.
> > Yet _I_ get ejected?

> > Ok, fine. I can live with that. But, I'm extremely disappointed in
what
> I
> > saw today.

> > So, in short, this whole experience has completely ruined the RAS event
> for
> > me. I don't like what I saw, and I don't care to be a part of it.

> > If racing as clean as possible, and maintaining a civil tongue isn't
> enough,
> > then I sure don't know what is.

> > I don't need it. I've found more civilized Open races.

> > Finally, congratulations to Ian for winning Loudon. I would have liked
to
> > race with you at Indy, but I guess it wasn't meant to be.

> > -Larry

by **John Pancoas** » Mon, 27 May 2002 08:35:30

Sounds like more of a driver(s) error than anything; chances are, the cars
ahead of you, and you too, needed to go past the pace car. But since the
car(s) ahead of you didn't, you were(correctly) being told to stay in line.

Hope this helps.

-John

> It WAS a great race. I just could have done without all the Drama :)

> That thing with 6 or 7 people going a Lap down was weird. I understand
now
> why it happened, but I don't understand exactly what should have been done
> about it.

> Someone was saying go around the pace car. I started to work up to that
> several times, but as soon as I tried it my spotter was in my ear
constantly
> telling me to stay behind this car, stay behind that car, slow up, let him
> pass! It was all so confusing.

> I didn't want to risk a black flag, so like some others I just decided to
> stay where I was and chalk it up to bad luck.

> Papy needs to work on this.

> -Larry

> > I was in it too, and I thought it was great...
> > but then I have been racing 0-10 bristol races on papy servers for 2
days
> > trying to get my short track rating up. Got stuck behind the pace car on
> > that little yellow incident and put a lap down. Would have passed the
guy
> in
> > front of me and the pace car, but wasn't sure about penalty. Would there
> > have been one if I had?

> > > Ok, I need to speak my mind on this...

> > > For the first time, I joined in on the RAS race today. I was looking
> > > towards some nice, clean racing with experienced people. People who I
> > > thought respected others.

> > > These are not two of my best tracks (Loudon and Indy). I'm not
> > particularly
> > > fast at flat tracks.

> > > So, my goal was to finish the races without any damage, and just get
> some
> > > laps in.

> > > I accomplished that. I finished the Loudon race (8th), and didn't
have
> a
> > > scratch. One person said I put them into the wall. If I did, I'm
> sorry,
> > > but I sure didn't feel any contact with ANYONE that whole race. If we
> > were
> > > that close, then it's entirely possible that a slight warp, air, or
> > whatever
> > > caused it. The point is, I never felt a thing, or saw a thing, and if
I
> > DID
> > > know I caused something I would have been the first to apologize for
it.
> > I
> > > don't rememer who was saying I wrecked them, but it was V-something.

> > > I will most certainly look at the replay (I saved it), and will
respond
> > back
> > > later after I see if I can find out what, exactly, you are referring
to.

> > > The only incident I KNOW I caused was during practice when I went
inside
> > of
> > > someone a little too hot. I apologized for that after I had a chance
to
> > > think about it.

> > > Now, for some reason beyond my comprehension, JSimmons was riding my
> ***
> > at
> > > Indy. I didn't do a thing to him, anywhere, at any time, ye he felt
it
> > was
> > > necessary to come after me verbally.

> > > And, for a grand finally, epickett ejected me during practice at Indy.
> As
> > > best all I can tell, all I did was say that JSimmons mouth was getting
> to
> > be
> > > a bit much.

> > > And, if I remember correctly, someone else told him this durning the
> > Loudon
> > > race as well.

> > > But, I guess I'm not one of the "Good Ol' Boys", and I don't rank the
> > > privilage of speaking my mind.

> > > Compared to some of the incidents I saw, and the arguments that were
> going
> > > on, I was a clean racer with a civil tongue. Some of the language
used
> > and
> > > temperaments were far, far beyond anything _I_ could even think of
> doing.
> > > Yet _I_ get ejected?

> > > Ok, fine. I can live with that. But, I'm extremely disappointed in
> what
> > I
> > > saw today.

> > > So, in short, this whole experience has completely ruined the RAS
event
> > for
> > > me. I don't like what I saw, and I don't care to be a part of it.

> > > If racing as clean as possible, and maintaining a civil tongue isn't
> > enough,
> > > then I sure don't know what is.

> > > I don't need it. I've found more civilized Open races.

> > > Finally, congratulations to Ian for winning Loudon. I would have
liked
> to
> > > race with you at Indy, but I guess it wasn't meant to be.

> > > -Larry

by **jon** » Mon, 27 May 2002 08:35:18

I went by him once, but didn't look like he was gonna come along, so I
dropped back in behind him. Better than finishin dead last cause of a
penalty.

> Sounds like more of a driver(s) error than anything; chances are, the
cars
> ahead of you, and you too, needed to go past the pace car. But since the
> car(s) ahead of you didn't, you were(correctly) being told to stay in
line.

> Hope this helps.

> -John

> > It WAS a great race. I just could have done without all the Drama :)

> > That thing with 6 or 7 people going a Lap down was weird. I understand
> now
> > why it happened, but I don't understand exactly what should have been
done
> > about it.

> > Someone was saying go around the pace car. I started to work up to that
> > several times, but as soon as I tried it my spotter was in my ear
> constantly
> > telling me to stay behind this car, stay behind that car, slow up, let
him
> > pass! It was all so confusing.

> > I didn't want to risk a black flag, so like some others I just decided
to
> > stay where I was and chalk it up to bad luck.

> > Papy needs to work on this.

> > -Larry

> > > I was in it too, and I thought it was great...
> > > but then I have been racing 0-10 bristol races on papy servers for 2
> days
> > > trying to get my short track rating up. Got stuck behind the pace car
on
> > > that little yellow incident and put a lap down. Would have passed the
> guy
> > in
> > > front of me and the pace car, but wasn't sure about penalty. Would
there
> > > have been one if I had?

> > > > Ok, I need to speak my mind on this...

> > > > For the first time, I joined in on the RAS race today. I was
looking
> > > > towards some nice, clean racing with experienced people. People who
I
> > > > thought respected others.

> > > > These are not two of my best tracks (Loudon and Indy). I'm not
> > > particularly
> > > > fast at flat tracks.

> > > > So, my goal was to finish the races without any damage, and just get
> > some
> > > > laps in.

> > > > I accomplished that. I finished the Loudon race (8th), and didn't
> have
> > a
> > > > scratch. One person said I put them into the wall. If I did, I'm
> > sorry,
> > > > but I sure didn't feel any contact with ANYONE that whole race. If
we
> > > were
> > > > that close, then it's entirely possible that a slight warp, air, or
> > > whatever
> > > > caused it. The point is, I never felt a thing, or saw a thing, and
if
> I
> > > DID
> > > > know I caused something I would have been the first to apologize for
> it.
> > > I
> > > > don't rememer who was saying I wrecked them, but it was V-something.

> > > > I will most certainly look at the replay (I saved it), and will
> respond
> > > back
> > > > later after I see if I can find out what, exactly, you are referring
> to.

> > > > The only incident I KNOW I caused was during practice when I went
> inside
> > > of
> > > > someone a little too hot. I apologized for that after I had a
chance
> to
> > > > think about it.

> > > > Now, for some reason beyond my comprehension, JSimmons was riding my
> > ***
> > > at
> > > > Indy. I didn't do a thing to him, anywhere, at any time, ye he felt
> it
> > > was
> > > > necessary to come after me verbally.

> > > > And, for a grand finally, epickett ejected me during practice at
Indy.
> > As
> > > > best all I can tell, all I did was say that JSimmons mouth was
getting
> > to
> > > be
> > > > a bit much.

> > > > And, if I remember correctly, someone else told him this durning the
> > > Loudon
> > > > race as well.

> > > > But, I guess I'm not one of the "Good Ol' Boys", and I don't rank
the
> > > > privilage of speaking my mind.

> > > > Compared to some of the incidents I saw, and the arguments that were
> > going
> > > > on, I was a clean racer with a civil tongue. Some of the language
> used
> > > and
> > > > temperaments were far, far beyond anything _I_ could even think of
> > doing.
> > > > Yet _I_ get ejected?

> > > > Ok, fine. I can live with that. But, I'm extremely disappointed in
> > what
> > > I
> > > > saw today.

> > > > So, in short, this whole experience has completely ruined the RAS
> event
> > > for
> > > > me. I don't like what I saw, and I don't care to be a part of it.

> > > > If racing as clean as possible, and maintaining a civil tongue isn't
> > > enough,
> > > > then I sure don't know what is.

> > > > I don't need it. I've found more civilized Open races.

> > > > Finally, congratulations to Ian for winning Loudon. I would have
> liked
> > to
> > > > race with you at Indy, but I guess it wasn't meant to be.

> > > > -Larry

by **Larr** » Mon, 27 May 2002 08:38:38

John,

Yes, I do believe this is what occured.

Is this something that Papy can account for in the Spotter AI ?