rec.autos.simulators

by **John Pancoas** » Mon, 27 May 2002 22:20:42

What Joachim said<G> Don't worry about what others are saying, unless you
asked them for info. Personally, I know some are new to the Nascar sims, so
I keep that in mind. It's no big deal to me.......part of the fun actually.
No need for someone to get upset about any newbies IMO. I left before the
race was over, so no wonder I missed any comments.

Re the first part of your post, like I said, they couldn't go by you, and
STAY past you, just like you couldn't _stay_ passed on someone. You can
pass all you want under yellow, but if you're not supposed to, your spotter
will still yack away at you.
What matters, is being in the position you're supposed to be in, before
you cross the s/f line and/or the pit entrance, if cars are pitting. That's
when you'd get a penalty.
Think of when you get an end of the line penalty. You come out of the
pits, you always are ahead of someone you need to let by. So, you slow and
let everyone by and there's no problem, even though you were at one time
ahead of them in line.
Same thing at some tracks when you take the yellow. You pass a car or two
slowing up, after the line, etc. No big deal, as long as you're where your
spotter says to be before the above marks.

That's how some of the others were moving around, etc.; they knew where
they were supposed to be I imagine, and were just ignoring their spotter,
messing around.

However, everyone getting in line, etc. and staying there is the best
thing to do, for the reason you mention; all it leads to is accidents.

Also, fwiw, do NOT always obey your spotter<G> He'll say "You're clear"
when many times, you're not. But when it comes to yellow flag, lining up,
etc., then, yep, definately listen to him, like you did.

If you haven't already, watch a race or three(gasp !<G). The game does a
very good job of enforcing actual Nascar rules.

Hope this helps.

-John

p.s. thanks Joachim :)

> So then why didn't the ones who were complaining just go on by me and the
> other two cars? :-)

> Actually it was after the race someone said something about us not knowing
> the rules. During the race, there were just complaints and orders barked
> out.

> It says on John's RASCAR web page to always obey the spotter, so that's
what
> I and the others did. No way of knowing if the game is going to***up
and
> penalize us in that situation.

> Some guys were weaving their way up through the pack during the yellow
laps,
> then dropping way back again, telling us to do this and that. I had no
idea
> what the hell was going on with their spotter instructions or anyone
else's.
> I even thought that the game was having a hard time getting us all
> straightened out due to all the position jostling going on, and if
everyone
> would sit still for two seconds it might clear up. I got rear ended twice
> during that caution also.

> No one calmly and clearly said what to do, and with an assurance that no
> penalty would be given. Like I said, all they had to do was go by us and
do
> their own thing then, right? Apparently they were afraid of the same
penalty
> we (the non-complainers :-) ) were.

> David G Fisher

> > No you wouldn't have Dave, fwiw(passed cars/penalty, etc.) Not if you
> > were where you needed to be before the marks, assuming you weren't
> supposed
> > to pass.

> > -John

> > p.s. For the record, I didn't say a thing about rules during the race,
> > don't recall anyone else either, but may have missed it; this post was
> just
> > trying to help/advise is all..........I'll keep my mouth shut in the
> future
> > :)

> > > I never heard the "pass the pace car" message either. There were a few
> > cars
> > > between me and you and I doubt they heard it either. If I had gone off
> on
> > my
> > > own, passed a couple of cars, and then the pace car, I would of
received
> a
> > > penalty. There was a lot of complaining during that yellow about some
of
> > us
> > > not knowing the rules, and people scrambling about, and it pissed me
off
> a
> > > bit.

> > > I suffered a screene freeze a few laps after the restart and hit the
> wall,
> > > crumpling my hood, so I ended up retiring anyway.

> > > David G Fisher

> > > > > :) One thing to keep in mind, many of the guys in these races
> aren't
> > > > >familiar with Nascar rules/sims, races, etc., too. Fyi, everything
> > takes
> > > > >place at the line/pit entrance.

> > > > > I.e, you can pass all you want under yellow........as long as
> you're
> > > where
> > > > >you should be before pit entrance/the s/f line, so if in doubt, try
> > > passing
> > > > >a car/pace car.
> > > > > If you shouldn't, your spotter will tell you, and fall in line.
If
> > no
> > > > >message, keep going.

> > > > >-John

> > > > >> Yeah, just chalk it up to bad luck. I've never seen it happen
> > before,
> > > and
> > > > >> it will probably be 1000 races before I see it again :)

> > > > >> -Larry

> > > > >> > Well, I don't know how/why to be honest. It's not the sim's
> > fault.
> > > > >> It's
> > > > >> > the fault of whoever was furthest up the field, still behind
the
> > pace
> > > > >car,
> > > > >> > who needed to pass the pass car, thus allowing everyone else
who
> > > needed
> > > > >to
> > > > >> > too, to be able to........whew<G>

> > > > >> > I imagine the car "in the lead" (of those needing to pass the
> > pace
> > > > >car),
> > > > >> > his spotter did/was telling him to pass the pace car, but just
> > missed
> > > > >the
> > > > >> > message, etc.

> > > > For everyone's info, *I* was the first car behind the pace car. I
> > didn't
> > > hear
> > > > ANY messages from my spotter telling me to pass it. Previous N#
sims
> > > would
> > > > tell you if you needed to pass it. No one else tried to pass me, so
> > > whoever
> > > > was directly behind me could have said something. I never even knew
> > > anything
> > > > was wrong with MY positioning until Ian(leader) passed me in the
pace
> > > line. I
> > > > expected my spotter to squawk about that, but when he didn't, I
eased
> > past
> > > both
> > > > him and the pace car. Still no spotter, so I went around and
rejoined
> > the
> > > > field.
> > > > One thing, though. I was dead last, so I don't understand if *I*
was
> > the
> > > > cause...

> > > > Eldred
> > > > --
> > > > Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
> > > > A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for
research
> > to
> > > cure
> > > > *** cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to
> make
> > a
> > > > donation. Thank you.

> > > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **John Simmon** » Mon, 27 May 2002 22:16:39

The problem was that Ed was behind you, and I was behind Ed. I was
being told to stay behind Ed, but to also pass the pace car. Ed was
being told to stay behind you, but to pass the pace car.

I think the whole thing would have been fixed if Ed had gone ahead and
passed the pace car and come around and gotten behind you again.

None of the rest of us could pass the pace car unless Ed did, or we
would have been black-flagged for passing under yellow. Ed was conerned
that he would have been black-flagged for the same thing if he passed
you.

If we had passed the pace car and been black-flagged for doing so, we
would most likely have ended up a lap down. However, not doing anything
at all guaranteed that outcome anyway.

The problem with the speeding up and dropping back cars was the
confusing spotter messages and not knowing quite what to do about it.

Ed may have been a bit frustrated thinking you were also getting the
"pass the pace car" spotter message. In the end 9and as you have
already cited) the rascar roster page states that you should always
follow your spotter's instructions. If those instructions result in a
penalty or weird positioning on the track, so be it.

--
=========================================================
DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development)
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
RASCAR Roster
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting)
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
=========================================================

by **Jan Verschuere** » Tue, 28 May 2002 00:00:19

Ain't nothing phantom about getting the hood shoved in one's face, my
friend.

The fact you didn't notice me going into the wall is pretty scary.

Disagree. If, as you claim below, it was warp on my behalf, it's my fault
for not taking it into account enough.

One's always smooth in one's own replay, but that's beside the point.

Hmmm... one would think one should stick close to the apron when overtaking.
One would at least expect the overtaking driver to apex T1. I made a
definate assumption as to the line you would take.

The name's Jan, BTW. Anyhow, this bit surprises me. You weren't position
warping much from my point of view. Otherwise I wouldn't have trusted to let
you go bye without going totally out of my way and risk unwanted attention
from people further behind. I.e. let you have the inside line but stay close
enough to slot in directly behind. Whatever you thought to gain by running
ahead of me at this point in the race escapes me at this moment, but I
considered you too much of a distraction to try and defend.

For reference... I didn't fall out of a tree in the online arena yesterday.
I've raced online for the past 3.5 years and I am acutely aware of all
things warp related. I check all competitors during practise, both in terms
of absolute latency (only possible in N2k2) and by watching them as they
drive (GPL habit). I also monitor my own connection. My ping was solid, so
was yours. You appeared solid to me, so did everyone else except #327, who I
had fairly little dealing with in the race.

You showed no signs of serious warping prior and after the accident. Only as
contact is made is your car showing "suspect" behaviour... partly
superimposing on me and clipping into the track in my replay. If, as you
say, you watched the entire replay you'll have noticed I got close to you on
further occasions without anything untowards happening.

If this is true N2002, is a dangerous game. GPL habit leads me to believe
that if I'm warping, all other drivers should appear to warp to me. This was
not the case in this race. If I'm shown to be warping in the server replay,
the N2002 prediction code is capable of luring one into a false sense of
security. Something I will duly keep in mind for future events.

I'll check the server replay to verify whether I my connection was actually
poor or warping occurred on your machine only.

Believe it... we touched in my game. I don't just spear off into the wall
for fun. Come out from behind the nonsense E-mail address we'll exchange
clips.

I saw it like this... you were hassling me at a point in the race where not
much progression was possible. Similar to John, I already had a suspicion of
you being a little too eager but anyway, I got fed up with having to keep
and eye on you so decided I'd open the door for you so I could have some
piece and quiet until crunch time. You predictably went for the inside, so I
turn in on the high line. Suddenly there's tyre squeal, a thump and I'm in
the wall. On the replay you're a full car's width away from the racing line
and drifting up as we touch.

If I'm shown to warp severely in the server replay I will take back all I
said and apologise. If I'm steady.... well, I'm sorry, but it takes two to
tango. We had a misunderstanding in that turn about what consists the
"inside line" and, as the overtaking driver, that's half your fault.

You wouldn't have had to go the trouble had you recognised your part in the
incident. "Oh dear, did we touch? -Didn't feel a thing. _Sorry about that_"
was all that was required. I also think Eldred was a bit harsh on you (on
the other hand I also think it's his perogative to be harsh on people) and
I'm sorry you got ejected over the aftermath of this incident, but, as was
said at the time, you were "being an ass about it".

Again, disagree. If it was warp on my behalf it's me who should apologise,
otherwise warp only served to hide the consequences of your actions to you.

I didn't paint a bullseye on you. I aired my displeasure at what appeared to
me as your driving style. If you have actually watched the entire replay you
will notice I was in a position to repay the compliment a couple of times
later in the race, but I didn't. Might be my imagination, but you seemed a
lot more carefull around me in those situations.

It's racing... it's not meant to be fun.<g>

Let's agree to disagree on that one. ;-)

Jan.
=---

by **Colin Harri** » Tue, 28 May 2002 00:08:06

Jan, I'll keep out of the rest of this argument (!!), but you seemed to be
warping to me in praccy..you ran behind me for a while and were coming in
and out a lot....

by **Mike Grand** » Tue, 28 May 2002 00:46:05

Larry, don't take their ranting and raving personal. Some people race,
others talk about it. I thought you ran a good race and didn't see any
problem with your driving. They should have been busting my balls, I stunk
up the first race and then caused a big wreck while leading with one to go
at Indy. Just one of those days. You can turn chat off then you don't have
to listen to it. (-:

--
Mike Grandy
www.precision-racing.com

by **Mike Grand** » Tue, 28 May 2002 00:46:33

Exactly

--
Mike Grandy
www.precision-racing.com

> Sounds like more of a driver(s) error than anything; chances are, the
cars
> ahead of you, and you too, needed to go past the pace car. But since the
> car(s) ahead of you didn't, you were(correctly) being told to stay in
line.

> Hope this helps.

> -John

> > It WAS a great race. I just could have done without all the Drama :)

> > That thing with 6 or 7 people going a Lap down was weird. I understand
> now
> > why it happened, but I don't understand exactly what should have been
done
> > about it.

> > Someone was saying go around the pace car. I started to work up to that
> > several times, but as soon as I tried it my spotter was in my ear
> constantly
> > telling me to stay behind this car, stay behind that car, slow up, let
him
> > pass! It was all so confusing.

> > I didn't want to risk a black flag, so like some others I just decided
to
> > stay where I was and chalk it up to bad luck.

> > Papy needs to work on this.

> > -Larry

> > > I was in it too, and I thought it was great...
> > > but then I have been racing 0-10 bristol races on papy servers for 2
> days
> > > trying to get my short track rating up. Got stuck behind the pace car
on
> > > that little yellow incident and put a lap down. Would have passed the
> guy
> > in
> > > front of me and the pace car, but wasn't sure about penalty. Would
there
> > > have been one if I had?

> > > > Ok, I need to speak my mind on this...

> > > > For the first time, I joined in on the RAS race today. I was
looking
> > > > towards some nice, clean racing with experienced people. People who
I
> > > > thought respected others.

> > > > These are not two of my best tracks (Loudon and Indy). I'm not
> > > particularly
> > > > fast at flat tracks.

> > > > So, my goal was to finish the races without any damage, and just get
> > some
> > > > laps in.

> > > > I accomplished that. I finished the Loudon race (8th), and didn't
> have
> > a
> > > > scratch. One person said I put them into the wall. If I did, I'm
> > sorry,
> > > > but I sure didn't feel any contact with ANYONE that whole race. If
we
> > > were
> > > > that close, then it's entirely possible that a slight warp, air, or
> > > whatever
> > > > caused it. The point is, I never felt a thing, or saw a thing, and
if
> I
> > > DID
> > > > know I caused something I would have been the first to apologize for
> it.
> > > I
> > > > don't rememer who was saying I wrecked them, but it was V-something.

> > > > I will most certainly look at the replay (I saved it), and will
> respond
> > > back
> > > > later after I see if I can find out what, exactly, you are referring
> to.

> > > > The only incident I KNOW I caused was during practice when I went
> inside
> > > of
> > > > someone a little too hot. I apologized for that after I had a
chance
> to
> > > > think about it.

> > > > Now, for some reason beyond my comprehension, JSimmons was riding my
> > ***
> > > at
> > > > Indy. I didn't do a thing to him, anywhere, at any time, ye he felt
> it
> > > was
> > > > necessary to come after me verbally.

> > > > And, for a grand finally, epickett ejected me during practice at
Indy.
> > As
> > > > best all I can tell, all I did was say that JSimmons mouth was
getting
> > to
> > > be
> > > > a bit much.

> > > > And, if I remember correctly, someone else told him this durning the
> > > Loudon
> > > > race as well.

> > > > But, I guess I'm not one of the "Good Ol' Boys", and I don't rank
the
> > > > privilage of speaking my mind.

> > > > Compared to some of the incidents I saw, and the arguments that were
> > going
> > > > on, I was a clean racer with a civil tongue. Some of the language
> used
> > > and
> > > > temperaments were far, far beyond anything _I_ could even think of
> > doing.
> > > > Yet _I_ get ejected?

> > > > Ok, fine. I can live with that. But, I'm extremely disappointed in
> > what
> > > I
> > > > saw today.

> > > > So, in short, this whole experience has completely ruined the RAS
> event
> > > for
> > > > me. I don't like what I saw, and I don't care to be a part of it.

> > > > If racing as clean as possible, and maintaining a civil tongue isn't
> > > enough,
> > > > then I sure don't know what is.

> > > > I don't need it. I've found more civilized Open races.

> > > > Finally, congratulations to Ian for winning Loudon. I would have
> liked
> > to
> > > > race with you at Indy, but I guess it wasn't meant to be.

> > > > -Larry

by **Mike Grand** » Tue, 28 May 2002 00:49:53

I think it's just one of those things you need to know. I pay little
attention to the spotter and just use situational awareness.

--
Mike Grandy
www.precision-racing.com

> > :) One thing to keep in mind, many of the guys in these races aren't
> >familiar with Nascar rules/sims, races, etc., too. Fyi, everything takes
> >place at the line/pit entrance.

> > I.e, you can pass all you want under yellow........as long as you're
where
> >you should be before pit entrance/the s/f line, so if in doubt, try
passing
> >a car/pace car.
> > If you shouldn't, your spotter will tell you, and fall in line. If no
> >message, keep going.

> >-John

> >> Yeah, just chalk it up to bad luck. I've never seen it happen before,
and
> >> it will probably be 1000 races before I see it again :)

> >> -Larry

> >> > Well, I don't know how/why to be honest. It's not the sim's fault.
> >> It's
> >> > the fault of whoever was furthest up the field, still behind the pace
> >car,
> >> > who needed to pass the pass car, thus allowing everyone else who
needed
> >to
> >> > too, to be able to........whew<G>

> >> > I imagine the car "in the lead" (of those needing to pass the pace
> >car),
> >> > his spotter did/was telling him to pass the pace car, but just missed
> >the
> >> > message, etc.

> For everyone's info, *I* was the first car behind the pace car. I didn't
hear
> ANY messages from my spotter telling me to pass it. Previous N# sims
would
> tell you if you needed to pass it. No one else tried to pass me, so
whoever
> was directly behind me could have said something. I never even knew
anything
> was wrong with MY positioning until Ian(leader) passed me in the pace
line. I
> expected my spotter to squawk about that, but when he didn't, I eased past
both
> him and the pace car. Still no spotter, so I went around and rejoined the
> field.
> One thing, though. I was dead last, so I don't understand if *I* was the
> cause...

> Eldred
> --
> Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
> A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to
cure
> *** cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a
> donation. Thank you.

> Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Mike Grand** » Tue, 28 May 2002 00:56:17

It was a frickin warp, you were warping all race. Time to get over it and
move on. You guys have to remember we are racing from all over the world
with diffent connections.

--
Mike Grandy
www.precision-racing.com

by **Mike Grand** » Tue, 28 May 2002 01:01:46

You have been around me long enough John, you know I could care less and
just race. (-:

--
Mike Grandy
www.precision-racing.com

> says...
> > Ok, I need to speak my mind on this...

> > The only incident I KNOW I caused was during practice when I went inside
of
> > someone a little too hot. I apologized for that after I had a chance to
> > think about it.

> It was me that you took out in practice. Hence the following:

> > Now, for some reason beyond my comprehension, JSimmons was riding my
***at
> > Indy. I didn't do a thing to him, anywhere, at any time, ye he felt it
was
> > necessary to come after me verbally.

> If I recall, I rode Mike Grandy's and Ed's ***a little too(at Indy),
> but they took it as it was meant - just a poke in the ribs.

> > And, for a grand finally, epickett ejected me during practice at Indy.
As
> > best all I can tell, all I did was say that JSimmons mouth was getting
to be
> > a bit much.

> I was surprised to see that (and I'm not sure I agree with it, but hey,
> it's Eldred's server and he can do as he pleases). I thought you just
> got mad and quit. Just so you know, I'm *always* a bit much.

> > And, if I remember correctly, someone else told him this durning the
Loudon
> > race as well.

> I think that was Ed. On the other hand, it could have been anybody.

> > But, I guess I'm not one of the "Good Ol' Boys", and I don't rank the
> > privilage of speaking my mind.

> All you gotta do is have a humor gland surgically implanted. I'm sure
> if you had demonstrated any amount of ability to laugh at yourself and
> at others, it would have gone a different way.

> Eldred said you were just ejected (and not banned), so if you want to,
> come on back.

> --
> =========================================================
> DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development)
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> RASCAR Roster
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting)
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/

> If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
> above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
> =========================================================

by **John Simmon** » Tue, 28 May 2002 01:08:57

Yeah, I know. Next week we start all over again. :)

--
=========================================================
DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
http://www.paddedwall.org/demons
DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development)
http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2
RASCAR Roster
http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar
Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
http://www.paddedwall.org/john
Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting)
http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast

If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
=========================================================

by **John Pancoas** » Tue, 28 May 2002 01:19:59

Exactly. I have a hell of a time trying to explain something I do/know
about, without thinking about it; end up confusing myself, lol.

-John

> I think it's just one of those things you need to know. I pay little
> attention to the spotter and just use situational awareness.

> --
> Mike Grandy
> www.precision-racing.com

> > > :) One thing to keep in mind, many of the guys in these races aren't
> > >familiar with Nascar rules/sims, races, etc., too. Fyi, everything
takes
> > >place at the line/pit entrance.

> > > I.e, you can pass all you want under yellow........as long as you're
> where
> > >you should be before pit entrance/the s/f line, so if in doubt, try
> passing
> > >a car/pace car.
> > > If you shouldn't, your spotter will tell you, and fall in line. If
no
> > >message, keep going.

> > >-John

> > >> Yeah, just chalk it up to bad luck. I've never seen it happen
before,
> and
> > >> it will probably be 1000 races before I see it again :)

> > >> -Larry

> > >> > Well, I don't know how/why to be honest. It's not the sim's
fault.
> > >> It's
> > >> > the fault of whoever was furthest up the field, still behind the
pace
> > >car,
> > >> > who needed to pass the pass car, thus allowing everyone else who
> needed
> > >to
> > >> > too, to be able to........whew<G>

> > >> > I imagine the car "in the lead" (of those needing to pass the
pace
> > >car),
> > >> > his spotter did/was telling him to pass the pace car, but just
missed
> > >the
> > >> > message, etc.

> > For everyone's info, *I* was the first car behind the pace car. I
didn't
> hear
> > ANY messages from my spotter telling me to pass it. Previous N# sims
> would
> > tell you if you needed to pass it. No one else tried to pass me, so
> whoever
> > was directly behind me could have said something. I never even knew
> anything
> > was wrong with MY positioning until Ian(leader) passed me in the pace
> line. I
> > expected my spotter to squawk about that, but when he didn't, I eased
past
> both
> > him and the pace car. Still no spotter, so I went around and rejoined
the
> > field.
> > One thing, though. I was dead last, so I don't understand if *I* was
the
> > cause...

> > Eldred
> > --
> > Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
> > A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research
to
> cure
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by **Tom Pabs** » Tue, 28 May 2002 01:39:08

Guys....

I've read through this entire string.....have a couple comments (not
directed at any one person.....just some general comments about racing and
"responsibility"):

1. When you are a rookie, you have the responsibility to at least know and
understand the rules of the type of racing you are engaged in. That is a
"responsibility" you have to all the other drivers in the race......**who do
know and understand the rules.** What is not relevant to this is whether
the rules are easy or hard to understand. I don't believe that is an
unreasonable requirement to place on a sim driver who wants to race in these
RASCAR events.

2. When racing in N2K2.....if you are confused about your spotter
positioning messages, getting yelled at by others for not doing
something....AND you are a rookie.....then your default action should be to
report to your pit stall. You will at least be re-scored/re-positioned when
you come back out on the track and you will not be penalized. You will also
avoid others being penalized because you are out of position. The worst
you'll be is at the back of the pack.....still on the same lap.

3. Just like in real racing, "yellows" are not a time to relax. They are
the times you need to double your "situational awareness" and alertness to
what is happening around you and control of your car. Proper "in-laps,"
"out-laps" and traversing pit road....are MORE difficult than racing
laps....not less difficult and a time to relax.

4. "Chatting" during a race should not be allowed, period. Except for
emergencies......it confuses and distracts....and almost never "helps" a
problem situation. This should include those stupid "thank you" messages.
I have been sim racing online for more than five years. I can't count on
one finger....."chat messages" that were displayed while I was at race
speed....that were helpful. The rest were distracting, confusing,
un-readable and unnecessary.

I know some of you will say that I am too "A.J. Foyt-like" in this........so
be it. I think racing is a serious sport that requires "seriousness" to
participate in it. Pick up races and "fun" races do not relieve the
participants from knowing the rules. Would you enjoy a "fun" chess
match.....in which your opponent moved his pieces any way he wanted
to....while you followed the rules about moving them? Stupid question, huh?

Regards,

Tom Pabst

by **Jan Verschuere** » Tue, 28 May 2002 02:36:36

Strange... just checked and you appear solid in my replay Colin (sorry 'bout
chopping down on you when we were both behind Larry, BTW. I had no idea it
was *that* close). Ok, it's evident you're not the local car and the turns
are slightly jerky when viewing from your***pit, but not what I would
consider "warp". I mean, you move no more than a couple virtual inches.
That's as good as can be expected for a Belgian and British driver via
Michigan, USA, isn't it?

This is worrying...

Jan.
=---

by **John Simmon** » Tue, 28 May 2002 02:39:08

says...

Agreed.

The situation was a bit confusing - and not every situation is cut and
dried. Beyond that, this is a good strategy if for no other reason than
to iron out the grid, get your spotter to shut up, and to reduce the
nioise level. I imagine that dave was just as bewildered as those of us
being told two different (and contradicting) things by our spotter.

Agreed.

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by **Colin Harri** » Tue, 28 May 2002 03:02:49

Oh, agreed, it can't be perfect, and as 2 'experienced' simmers we knew what
to do, etc (NOT that I'm saying that someone else DIDN'T know what to do),
but for a second at a time you were disappearing off my screen..happened
maybe 6 or 7 times while you were behind me, so yeah, it's sort of worrying
that your screen had you in a false sense of security :-)

rec.autos.simulators

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