rec.autos.simulators

Today's RAS race

Tim

Today's RAS race

by Tim » Mon, 27 May 2002 14:47:57

FYI Larry, this is something we've been dealing with for a very long
time. The page below shows a clear example dating all the way back to
N3.

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

The deciding factor is a server replay. It almost always shows the
true picture of what happened.


>Ok, I have gone and watched the entire replay to find this phantom incident
>during the Loudon race.

>And I found it.

>In short, it was NO ONE's fault.  View the replay and you will see why.

>And after reviewing it 7 ways to Sunday, I'm afraid I must maintain that I
>did not cause it, never got a scratch, never saw it, and never felt it.

>If you look carefully for yourselves, you can see this too.

>This incident in question is at time 23:59 in the race.  The other car
>involved was the 17 car driven by J Verschueren.

>The best way to see this is to go to time 23:56 and change to my car, the 8
>car.  Then go to the Rear Chase view.

>When you get close to the corner, stop, and use the single-frame advance
>buttons.

>It is very clear what happened.

>You will first notice that my car had a smooth, consistent line all around
>the corner and really didn't waver as much as a few inches.  A little high
>off the line, but reasonable.

>However, the 17 car was jerking up and down from left to right.  Quite a
>bit, actually.  This was not due to JU Verschueren's driving.

>It was due to warp.

>This is why I never felt a thing, and never saw a thing.  My car made a
>smooth turn through the corners, but the 17 car was jerking back and forth.
>Again, this was not caused by J Verschueren's driving.  It was being caused
>by warp.

>I'm not even really convinced that we ever truly touched.  I would have to
>believe I would have felt something, and my car would have at least bobbled
>if we did, but as you can tell from the Replay my car didn't waver in the
>slightest.

>It is readily apparant that the physics engine induced the spin, due to the
>warp that the 17 car was experiencing at the time.

>I normally don't go through this much effort for something like this, but in
>this case, given what transpired afterwards, I felt I really had no choice.

>No apologies are necessary.  It was just one of those things we have to live
>with in online racing.

>The only thing I would ask is that folks think about this stuff before they
>paint a bullseye on someone.

>We're all here to have fun.  Let's keep it that way.

>JV, I'm sorry ya took a hit, but it wasn't because of me :)

>Thanks :)

>-Larry



>> Ok, I need to speak my mind on this...

>> For the first time, I joined in on the RAS race today.  I was looking
>> towards some nice, clean racing with experienced people.  People who I
>> thought respected others.

>> These are not two of my best tracks (Loudon and Indy).  I'm not
>particularly
>> fast at flat tracks.

>> So, my goal was to finish the races without any damage, and just get some
>> laps in.

>> I accomplished that.  I finished the Loudon race (8th), and didn't have a
>> scratch.  One person said I put them into the wall.  If I did, I'm sorry,
>> but I sure didn't feel any contact with ANYONE that whole race.  If we
>were
>> that close, then it's entirely possible that a slight warp, air, or
>whatever
>> caused it.  The point is, I never felt a thing, or saw a thing, and if I
>DID
>> know I caused something I would have been the first to apologize for it.
>I
>> don't rememer who was saying I wrecked them, but it was V-something.

>> I will most certainly look at the replay (I saved it), and will respond
>back
>> later after I see if I can find out what, exactly, you are referring to.

>> The only incident I KNOW I caused was during practice when I went inside
>of
>> someone a little too hot.  I apologized for that after I had a chance to
>> think about it.

>> Now, for some reason beyond my comprehension, JSimmons was riding my ***
>at
>> Indy.  I didn't do a thing to him, anywhere, at any time, ye he felt it
>was
>> necessary to come after me verbally.

>> And, for a grand finally, epickett ejected me during practice at Indy.  As
>> best all I can tell, all I did was say that JSimmons mouth was getting to
>be
>> a bit much.

>> And, if I remember correctly, someone else told him this durning the
>Loudon
>> race as well.

>> But, I guess I'm not one of the "Good Ol' Boys", and I don't rank the
>> privilage of speaking my mind.

>> Compared to some of the incidents I saw, and the arguments that were going
>> on, I was a clean racer with a civil tongue.  Some of the language used
>and
>> temperaments were far, far beyond anything _I_ could even think of doing.
>> Yet _I_ get ejected?

>> Ok, fine.  I can live with that.  But, I'm extremely disappointed in what
>I
>> saw today.

>> So, in short, this whole experience has completely ruined the RAS event
>for
>> me.  I don't like what I saw, and I don't care to be a part of it.

>> If racing as clean as possible, and maintaining a civil tongue isn't
>enough,
>> then I sure don't know what is.

>> I don't need it.  I've found more civilized Open races.

>> Finally, congratulations to Ian for winning Loudon.  I would have liked to
>> race with you at Indy, but I guess it wasn't meant to be.

>> -Larry

                  Tim Wortman
      North American Simulation Series
               www.nasscar.com
David G Fishe

Today's RAS race

by David G Fishe » Mon, 27 May 2002 15:00:22

Even if he did make a mistake and hit Jan, it was just a minor racing
incident (didn't even draw a yellow flag) and that's all. He didn't make any
other mistakes, and may have actually been the cleanest driver during the
whole race. :-)
People ganged up on him a bit for absolutely no reason.

David G Fisher


> FYI Larry, this is something we've been dealing with for a very long
> time. The page below shows a clear example dating all the way back to
> N3.

> http://www.racesimcentral.net/

> The deciding factor is a server replay. It almost always shows the
> true picture of what happened.


> >Ok, I have gone and watched the entire replay to find this phantom
incident
> >during the Loudon race.

> >And I found it.

> >In short, it was NO ONE's fault.  View the replay and you will see why.

> >And after reviewing it 7 ways to Sunday, I'm afraid I must maintain that
I
> >did not cause it, never got a scratch, never saw it, and never felt it.

> >If you look carefully for yourselves, you can see this too.

> >This incident in question is at time 23:59 in the race.  The other car
> >involved was the 17 car driven by J Verschueren.

> >The best way to see this is to go to time 23:56 and change to my car, the
8
> >car.  Then go to the Rear Chase view.

> >When you get close to the corner, stop, and use the single-frame advance
> >buttons.

> >It is very clear what happened.

> >You will first notice that my car had a smooth, consistent line all
around
> >the corner and really didn't waver as much as a few inches.  A little
high
> >off the line, but reasonable.

> >However, the 17 car was jerking up and down from left to right.  Quite a
> >bit, actually.  This was not due to JU Verschueren's driving.

> >It was due to warp.

> >This is why I never felt a thing, and never saw a thing.  My car made a
> >smooth turn through the corners, but the 17 car was jerking back and
forth.
> >Again, this was not caused by J Verschueren's driving.  It was being
caused
> >by warp.

> >I'm not even really convinced that we ever truly touched.  I would have
to
> >believe I would have felt something, and my car would have at least
bobbled
> >if we did, but as you can tell from the Replay my car didn't waver in the
> >slightest.

> >It is readily apparant that the physics engine induced the spin, due to
the
> >warp that the 17 car was experiencing at the time.

> >I normally don't go through this much effort for something like this, but
in
> >this case, given what transpired afterwards, I felt I really had no
choice.

> >No apologies are necessary.  It was just one of those things we have to
live
> >with in online racing.

> >The only thing I would ask is that folks think about this stuff before
they
> >paint a bullseye on someone.

> >We're all here to have fun.  Let's keep it that way.

> >JV, I'm sorry ya took a hit, but it wasn't because of me :)

> >Thanks :)

> >-Larry



> >> Ok, I need to speak my mind on this...

> >> For the first time, I joined in on the RAS race today.  I was looking
> >> towards some nice, clean racing with experienced people.  People who I
> >> thought respected others.

> >> These are not two of my best tracks (Loudon and Indy).  I'm not
> >particularly
> >> fast at flat tracks.

> >> So, my goal was to finish the races without any damage, and just get
some
> >> laps in.

> >> I accomplished that.  I finished the Loudon race (8th), and didn't have
a
> >> scratch.  One person said I put them into the wall.  If I did, I'm
sorry,
> >> but I sure didn't feel any contact with ANYONE that whole race.  If we
> >were
> >> that close, then it's entirely possible that a slight warp, air, or
> >whatever
> >> caused it.  The point is, I never felt a thing, or saw a thing, and if
I
> >DID
> >> know I caused something I would have been the first to apologize for
it.
> >I
> >> don't rememer who was saying I wrecked them, but it was V-something.

> >> I will most certainly look at the replay (I saved it), and will respond
> >back
> >> later after I see if I can find out what, exactly, you are referring
to.

> >> The only incident I KNOW I caused was during practice when I went
inside
> >of
> >> someone a little too hot.  I apologized for that after I had a chance
to
> >> think about it.

> >> Now, for some reason beyond my comprehension, JSimmons was riding my
***
> >at
> >> Indy.  I didn't do a thing to him, anywhere, at any time, ye he felt it
> >was
> >> necessary to come after me verbally.

> >> And, for a grand finally, epickett ejected me during practice at Indy.
As
> >> best all I can tell, all I did was say that JSimmons mouth was getting
to
> >be
> >> a bit much.

> >> And, if I remember correctly, someone else told him this durning the
> >Loudon
> >> race as well.

> >> But, I guess I'm not one of the "Good Ol' Boys", and I don't rank the
> >> privilage of speaking my mind.

> >> Compared to some of the incidents I saw, and the arguments that were
going
> >> on, I was a clean racer with a civil tongue.  Some of the language used
> >and
> >> temperaments were far, far beyond anything _I_ could even think of
doing.
> >> Yet _I_ get ejected?

> >> Ok, fine.  I can live with that.  But, I'm extremely disappointed in
what
> >I
> >> saw today.

> >> So, in short, this whole experience has completely ruined the RAS event
> >for
> >> me.  I don't like what I saw, and I don't care to be a part of it.

> >> If racing as clean as possible, and maintaining a civil tongue isn't
> >enough,
> >> then I sure don't know what is.

> >> I don't need it.  I've found more civilized Open races.

> >> Finally, congratulations to Ian for winning Loudon.  I would have liked
to
> >> race with you at Indy, but I guess it wasn't meant to be.

> >> -Larry

>                   Tim Wortman
>       North American Simulation Series
>                www.nasscar.com

David G Fishe

Today's RAS race

by David G Fishe » Mon, 27 May 2002 15:09:23

I never heard the "pass the pace car" message either. There were a few cars
between me and you and I doubt they heard it either. If I had gone off on my
own, passed a couple of cars, and then the pace car, I would of received a
penalty. There was a lot of complaining during that yellow about some of us
not knowing the rules, and people scrambling about, and it pissed me off a
bit.

I suffered a screene freeze a few laps after the restart and hit the wall,
crumpling my hood, so I ended up retiring anyway.

David G Fisher




> >  :)  One thing to keep in mind, many of the guys in these races aren't
> >familiar with Nascar rules/sims, races, etc., too.  Fyi, everything takes
> >place at the line/pit entrance.

> >  I.e, you can pass all you want under yellow........as long as you're
where
> >you should be before pit entrance/the s/f line, so if in doubt, try
passing
> >a car/pace car.
> >  If you shouldn't, your spotter will tell you, and fall in line.  If no
> >message, keep going.

> >-John



> >> Yeah, just chalk it up to bad luck.  I've never seen it happen before,
and
> >> it will probably be 1000 races before I see it again :)

> >> -Larry



> >> >   Well, I don't know how/why to be honest.  It's not the sim's fault.
> >> It's
> >> > the fault of whoever was furthest up the field, still behind the pace
> >car,
> >> > who needed to pass the pass car, thus allowing everyone else who
needed
> >to
> >> > too, to be able to........whew<G>

> >> >   I imagine the car "in the lead" (of those needing to pass the pace
> >car),
> >> > his spotter did/was telling him to pass the pace car, but just missed
> >the
> >> > message, etc.

> For everyone's info, *I* was the first car behind the pace car.  I didn't
hear
> ANY messages from my spotter telling me to pass it.  Previous N# sims
would
> tell you if you needed to pass it.  No one else tried to pass me, so
whoever
> was directly behind me could have said something.  I never even knew
anything
> was wrong with MY positioning until Ian(leader) passed me in the pace
line.  I
> expected my spotter to squawk about that, but when he didn't, I eased past
both
> him and the pace car.  Still no spotter, so I went around and rejoined the
> field.
> One thing, though.  I was dead last, so I don't understand if *I* was the
> cause...

> Eldred
> --
> Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
> A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to
cure
> *** cancer.  If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a
> donation.  Thank you.

> Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

John Pancoas

Today's RAS race

by John Pancoas » Mon, 27 May 2002 15:57:47

  No you wouldn't have Dave, fwiw(passed cars/penalty, etc.)  Not if you
were where you needed to be before the marks, assuming you weren't supposed
to pass.

-John

p.s.  For the record, I didn't say a thing about rules during the race,
don't recall anyone else either, but may have missed it; this post was just
trying to help/advise is all..........I'll keep my mouth shut in the future
:)



> I never heard the "pass the pace car" message either. There were a few
cars
> between me and you and I doubt they heard it either. If I had gone off on
my
> own, passed a couple of cars, and then the pace car, I would of received a
> penalty. There was a lot of complaining during that yellow about some of
us
> not knowing the rules, and people scrambling about, and it pissed me off a
> bit.

> I suffered a screene freeze a few laps after the restart and hit the wall,
> crumpling my hood, so I ended up retiring anyway.

> David G Fisher





> > >  :)  One thing to keep in mind, many of the guys in these races aren't
> > >familiar with Nascar rules/sims, races, etc., too.  Fyi, everything
takes
> > >place at the line/pit entrance.

> > >  I.e, you can pass all you want under yellow........as long as you're
> where
> > >you should be before pit entrance/the s/f line, so if in doubt, try
> passing
> > >a car/pace car.
> > >  If you shouldn't, your spotter will tell you, and fall in line.  If
no
> > >message, keep going.

> > >-John



> > >> Yeah, just chalk it up to bad luck.  I've never seen it happen
before,
> and
> > >> it will probably be 1000 races before I see it again :)

> > >> -Larry



> > >> >   Well, I don't know how/why to be honest.  It's not the sim's
fault.
> > >> It's
> > >> > the fault of whoever was furthest up the field, still behind the
pace
> > >car,
> > >> > who needed to pass the pass car, thus allowing everyone else who
> needed
> > >to
> > >> > too, to be able to........whew<G>

> > >> >   I imagine the car "in the lead" (of those needing to pass the
pace
> > >car),
> > >> > his spotter did/was telling him to pass the pace car, but just
missed
> > >the
> > >> > message, etc.

> > For everyone's info, *I* was the first car behind the pace car.  I
didn't
> hear
> > ANY messages from my spotter telling me to pass it.  Previous N# sims
> would
> > tell you if you needed to pass it.  No one else tried to pass me, so
> whoever
> > was directly behind me could have said something.  I never even knew
> anything
> > was wrong with MY positioning until Ian(leader) passed me in the pace
> line.  I
> > expected my spotter to squawk about that, but when he didn't, I eased
past
> both
> > him and the pace car.  Still no spotter, so I went around and rejoined
the
> > field.
> > One thing, though.  I was dead last, so I don't understand if *I* was
the
> > cause...

> > Eldred
> > --
> > Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
> > A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research
to
> cure
> > *** cancer.  If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make
a
> > donation.  Thank you.

> > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Larr

Today's RAS race

by Larr » Mon, 27 May 2002 16:15:39

I understand what you are saying, but this one is pretty clear.  It was an
incident caused by warp.

-Larry




> > Ok, I have gone and watched the entire replay to find this phantom
> incident
> > during the Loudon race.

> > And I found it.
>    What you have said sounds consistant, but I should warn you that
> different replays of the same incident will have markedly different views.
> THe Papy replay has always been  centered on the single online car, thus
> everything around it kinda gets guessed at.  Your replay may show a clean
> turn, Jan's may demostrate his being blocked and clubbed.
>   The warping replay means somebodies connection wasn't top-notch but not
> always the other car.
>    Good luck sorting this out..
> dave henrie

John Pancoas

Today's RAS race

by John Pancoas » Mon, 27 May 2002 16:18:17

  P.p.s  <G>  Sorry if I offended anyone; that wasn't the point.  Just was
trying to explain to Larry why some things may not have occurred/people did
things a certain way, during the race.

-John


>   No you wouldn't have Dave, fwiw(passed cars/penalty, etc.)  Not if you
> were where you needed to be before the marks, assuming you weren't
supposed
> to pass.

> -John

> p.s.  For the record, I didn't say a thing about rules during the race,
> don't recall anyone else either, but may have missed it; this post was
just
> trying to help/advise is all..........I'll keep my mouth shut in the
future
> :)



> > I never heard the "pass the pace car" message either. There were a few
> cars
> > between me and you and I doubt they heard it either. If I had gone off
on
> my
> > own, passed a couple of cars, and then the pace car, I would of received
a
> > penalty. There was a lot of complaining during that yellow about some of
> us
> > not knowing the rules, and people scrambling about, and it pissed me off
a
> > bit.

> > I suffered a screene freeze a few laps after the restart and hit the
wall,
> > crumpling my hood, so I ended up retiring anyway.

> > David G Fisher





> > > >  :)  One thing to keep in mind, many of the guys in these races
aren't
> > > >familiar with Nascar rules/sims, races, etc., too.  Fyi, everything
> takes
> > > >place at the line/pit entrance.

> > > >  I.e, you can pass all you want under yellow........as long as
you're
> > where
> > > >you should be before pit entrance/the s/f line, so if in doubt, try
> > passing
> > > >a car/pace car.
> > > >  If you shouldn't, your spotter will tell you, and fall in line.  If
> no
> > > >message, keep going.

> > > >-John



> > > >> Yeah, just chalk it up to bad luck.  I've never seen it happen
> before,
> > and
> > > >> it will probably be 1000 races before I see it again :)

> > > >> -Larry



> > > >> >   Well, I don't know how/why to be honest.  It's not the sim's
> fault.
> > > >> It's
> > > >> > the fault of whoever was furthest up the field, still behind the
> pace
> > > >car,
> > > >> > who needed to pass the pass car, thus allowing everyone else who
> > needed
> > > >to
> > > >> > too, to be able to........whew<G>

> > > >> >   I imagine the car "in the lead" (of those needing to pass the
> pace
> > > >car),
> > > >> > his spotter did/was telling him to pass the pace car, but just
> missed
> > > >the
> > > >> > message, etc.

> > > For everyone's info, *I* was the first car behind the pace car.  I
> didn't
> > hear
> > > ANY messages from my spotter telling me to pass it.  Previous N# sims
> > would
> > > tell you if you needed to pass it.  No one else tried to pass me, so
> > whoever
> > > was directly behind me could have said something.  I never even knew
> > anything
> > > was wrong with MY positioning until Ian(leader) passed me in the pace
> > line.  I
> > > expected my spotter to squawk about that, but when he didn't, I eased
> past
> > both
> > > him and the pace car.  Still no spotter, so I went around and rejoined
> the
> > > field.
> > > One thing, though.  I was dead last, so I don't understand if *I* was
> the
> > > cause...

> > > Eldred
> > > --
> > > Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
> > > A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research
> to
> > cure
> > > *** cancer.  If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to
make
> a
> > > donation.  Thank you.

> > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Larr

Today's RAS race

by Larr » Mon, 27 May 2002 16:21:14

John,

Your input is appreciated :)  Thanks!

-Larry


>   P.p.s  <G>  Sorry if I offended anyone; that wasn't the point.  Just was
> trying to explain to Larry why some things may not have occurred/people
did
> things a certain way, during the race.

> -John



> >   No you wouldn't have Dave, fwiw(passed cars/penalty, etc.)  Not if you
> > were where you needed to be before the marks, assuming you weren't
> supposed
> > to pass.

> > -John

> > p.s.  For the record, I didn't say a thing about rules during the race,
> > don't recall anyone else either, but may have missed it; this post was
> just
> > trying to help/advise is all..........I'll keep my mouth shut in the
> future
> > :)



> > > I never heard the "pass the pace car" message either. There were a few
> > cars
> > > between me and you and I doubt they heard it either. If I had gone off
> on
> > my
> > > own, passed a couple of cars, and then the pace car, I would of
received
> a
> > > penalty. There was a lot of complaining during that yellow about some
of
> > us
> > > not knowing the rules, and people scrambling about, and it pissed me
off
> a
> > > bit.

> > > I suffered a screene freeze a few laps after the restart and hit the
> wall,
> > > crumpling my hood, so I ended up retiring anyway.

> > > David G Fisher





> > > > >  :)  One thing to keep in mind, many of the guys in these races
> aren't
> > > > >familiar with Nascar rules/sims, races, etc., too.  Fyi, everything
> > takes
> > > > >place at the line/pit entrance.

> > > > >  I.e, you can pass all you want under yellow........as long as
> you're
> > > where
> > > > >you should be before pit entrance/the s/f line, so if in doubt, try
> > > passing
> > > > >a car/pace car.
> > > > >  If you shouldn't, your spotter will tell you, and fall in line.
If
> > no
> > > > >message, keep going.

> > > > >-John



> > > > >> Yeah, just chalk it up to bad luck.  I've never seen it happen
> > before,
> > > and
> > > > >> it will probably be 1000 races before I see it again :)

> > > > >> -Larry



> > > > >> >   Well, I don't know how/why to be honest.  It's not the sim's
> > fault.
> > > > >> It's
> > > > >> > the fault of whoever was furthest up the field, still behind
the
> > pace
> > > > >car,
> > > > >> > who needed to pass the pass car, thus allowing everyone else
who
> > > needed
> > > > >to
> > > > >> > too, to be able to........whew<G>

> > > > >> >   I imagine the car "in the lead" (of those needing to pass the
> > pace
> > > > >car),
> > > > >> > his spotter did/was telling him to pass the pace car, but just
> > missed
> > > > >the
> > > > >> > message, etc.

> > > > For everyone's info, *I* was the first car behind the pace car.  I
> > didn't
> > > hear
> > > > ANY messages from my spotter telling me to pass it.  Previous N#
sims
> > > would
> > > > tell you if you needed to pass it.  No one else tried to pass me, so
> > > whoever
> > > > was directly behind me could have said something.  I never even knew
> > > anything
> > > > was wrong with MY positioning until Ian(leader) passed me in the
pace
> > > line.  I
> > > > expected my spotter to squawk about that, but when he didn't, I
eased
> > past
> > > both
> > > > him and the pace car.  Still no spotter, so I went around and
rejoined
> > the
> > > > field.
> > > > One thing, though.  I was dead last, so I don't understand if *I*
was
> > the
> > > > cause...

> > > > Eldred
> > > > --
> > > > Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
> > > > A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for
research
> > to
> > > cure
> > > > *** cancer.  If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to
> make
> > a
> > > > donation.  Thank you.

> > > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

David G Fishe

Today's RAS race

by David G Fishe » Mon, 27 May 2002 18:36:19

So then why didn't the ones who were complaining just go on by me and the
other two cars? :-)

Actually it was after the race someone said something about us not knowing
the rules. During the race, there were just complaints and orders barked
out.

It says on John's RASCAR web page to always obey the spotter, so that's what
I and the others did. No way of knowing if the game is going to***up and
penalize us in that situation.

Some guys were weaving their way up through the pack during the yellow laps,
then dropping way back again, telling us to do this and that. I had no idea
what the hell was going on with their spotter instructions or anyone else's.
I even thought that the game was having a hard time getting us all
straightened out due to all the position jostling going on, and if everyone
would sit still for two seconds it might clear up. I got rear ended twice
during that caution also.

No one calmly and clearly said what to do, and with an assurance that no
penalty would be given. Like I said, all they had to do was go by us and do
their own thing then, right? Apparently they were afraid of the same penalty
we (the non-complainers :-)  ) were.

David G Fisher


>   No you wouldn't have Dave, fwiw(passed cars/penalty, etc.)  Not if you
> were where you needed to be before the marks, assuming you weren't
supposed
> to pass.

> -John

> p.s.  For the record, I didn't say a thing about rules during the race,
> don't recall anyone else either, but may have missed it; this post was
just
> trying to help/advise is all..........I'll keep my mouth shut in the
future
> :)



> > I never heard the "pass the pace car" message either. There were a few
> cars
> > between me and you and I doubt they heard it either. If I had gone off
on
> my
> > own, passed a couple of cars, and then the pace car, I would of received
a
> > penalty. There was a lot of complaining during that yellow about some of
> us
> > not knowing the rules, and people scrambling about, and it pissed me off
a
> > bit.

> > I suffered a screene freeze a few laps after the restart and hit the
wall,
> > crumpling my hood, so I ended up retiring anyway.

> > David G Fisher





> > > >  :)  One thing to keep in mind, many of the guys in these races
aren't
> > > >familiar with Nascar rules/sims, races, etc., too.  Fyi, everything
> takes
> > > >place at the line/pit entrance.

> > > >  I.e, you can pass all you want under yellow........as long as
you're
> > where
> > > >you should be before pit entrance/the s/f line, so if in doubt, try
> > passing
> > > >a car/pace car.
> > > >  If you shouldn't, your spotter will tell you, and fall in line.  If
> no
> > > >message, keep going.

> > > >-John



> > > >> Yeah, just chalk it up to bad luck.  I've never seen it happen
> before,
> > and
> > > >> it will probably be 1000 races before I see it again :)

> > > >> -Larry



> > > >> >   Well, I don't know how/why to be honest.  It's not the sim's
> fault.
> > > >> It's
> > > >> > the fault of whoever was furthest up the field, still behind the
> pace
> > > >car,
> > > >> > who needed to pass the pass car, thus allowing everyone else who
> > needed
> > > >to
> > > >> > too, to be able to........whew<G>

> > > >> >   I imagine the car "in the lead" (of those needing to pass the
> pace
> > > >car),
> > > >> > his spotter did/was telling him to pass the pace car, but just
> missed
> > > >the
> > > >> > message, etc.

> > > For everyone's info, *I* was the first car behind the pace car.  I
> didn't
> > hear
> > > ANY messages from my spotter telling me to pass it.  Previous N# sims
> > would
> > > tell you if you needed to pass it.  No one else tried to pass me, so
> > whoever
> > > was directly behind me could have said something.  I never even knew
> > anything
> > > was wrong with MY positioning until Ian(leader) passed me in the pace
> > line.  I
> > > expected my spotter to squawk about that, but when he didn't, I eased
> past
> > both
> > > him and the pace car.  Still no spotter, so I went around and rejoined
> the
> > > field.
> > > One thing, though.  I was dead last, so I don't understand if *I* was
> the
> > > cause...

> > > Eldred
> > > --
> > > Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
> > > A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research
> to
> > cure
> > > *** cancer.  If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to
make
> a
> > > donation.  Thank you.

> > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Joachim Trens

Today's RAS race

by Joachim Trens » Mon, 27 May 2002 22:25:14

Hi Dave,

you certainly did the right thing in obeying your spotter no matter what
others were saying, especially since you couldn't discern what of the things
being said was correct or not.

However, you also shouldn't be annoyed at them 'barking' a bit - after all,
this is a race and of course they're e***d and hyped up, with adrenaline
flowing.

I find it - although unpleasant - understandable that some of the others got
a little e***d when the newbies didn't do what the Nascar rules require.
I'm sure at that moment they weren't realising that this is one of the more
intricate issues within the Nascar ruleset and that less experienced drivers
simply wouldn't know, especially if their spotter doesn't say anything, or
even advises them as to the opposite.

Achim



Joachim Trens

Today's RAS race

by Joachim Trens » Mon, 27 May 2002 22:43:17

Hi Tim,

IMO, the server replay doesn't show what really happened, as in these cases,
three equally true realities exist (wow, finally proof for that theory <g>).

The server replay shows what the server saw, but each of the replays of the
involved drivers shows what each of these drivers saw. Each replays only
shows based on what assumptions the local systems or server made their
decisions. But there is no 'true' replay. The server is only a common
denominator, nothing more.

In order to judge the actions of any of the drivers involved, you have to do
that based on their local replay.

Achim


Joachim Trens

Today's RAS race

by Joachim Trens » Mon, 27 May 2002 22:27:27

Hi Dave,

while indeed a replay of for example a driver who's being accused of having
caused an incident may not show precisely what another driver involved saw
on his screen, it shows, however, whether that accused driver on his side
did anything wrong or not, as it clearly shows what _he_ saw.

Achim




> > Ok, I have gone and watched the entire replay to find this phantom
> incident
> > during the Loudon race.

> > And I found it.
>    What you have said sounds consistant, but I should warn you that
> different replays of the same incident will have markedly different views.
> THe Papy replay has always been  centered on the single online car, thus
> everything around it kinda gets guessed at.  Your replay may show a clean
> turn, Jan's may demostrate his being blocked and clubbed.
>   The warping replay means somebodies connection wasn't top-notch but not
> always the other car.
>    Good luck sorting this out..
> dave henrie

Joachim Trens

Today's RAS race

by Joachim Trens » Mon, 27 May 2002 22:20:03

Hi John,

please keep sharing your knowledge about these rule related matters.

For me, everything you've said so far in that respect was utterly
informative and helpful. I couldn't find information similarly up-to-date
and pertaining to actual, current events (and hence similarly intelligible
and digestible to a Nascar Newbie) anywhere else.

I've read all your comments with interest and profound gratefulness, and if
you'd give me advice in a race, I'd be even more grateful!

I don't think Dave was referring to your posts. Please keep posting!

Achim


>   P.p.s  <G>  Sorry if I offended anyone; that wasn't the point.  Just was
> trying to explain to Larry why some things may not have occurred/people
did
> things a certain way, during the race.

> -John



> >   No you wouldn't have Dave, fwiw(passed cars/penalty, etc.)  Not if you
> > were where you needed to be before the marks, assuming you weren't
> supposed
> > to pass.

> > -John

> > p.s.  For the record, I didn't say a thing about rules during the race,
> > don't recall anyone else either, but may have missed it; this post was
> just
> > trying to help/advise is all..........I'll keep my mouth shut in the
> future
> > :)

John Simmon

Today's RAS race

by John Simmon » Mon, 27 May 2002 21:56:27


says...

It was me that you took out in practice.  Hence the following:

If I recall, I rode Mike Grandy's and Ed's ***a little too(at Indy),
but they took it as it was meant - just a poke in the ribs.

I was surprised to see that (and I'm not sure I agree with it, but hey,
it's Eldred's server and he can do as he pleases).  I thought you just
got mad and quit.  Just so you know, I'm *always* a bit much.

I think that was Ed.  On the other hand, it could have been anybody.

All you gotta do is have a humor gland surgically implanted.  I'm sure
if you had demonstrated any amount of ability to laugh at yourself and
at others, it would have gone a different way.

Eldred said you were just ejected (and not banned), so if you want to,
come on back.

--
=========================================================
DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
  http://www.racesimcentral.net/
DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development)
  http://www.racesimcentral.net/
RASCAR Roster
  http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
  http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting)
  http://www.racesimcentral.net/

If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
=========================================================

John Simmon

Today's RAS race

by John Simmon » Mon, 27 May 2002 22:05:17



Well, I ain't apologizing to anyone, but if he wants to keep racing with
us, that's fine by me.  He's just gotta grow a thicker skin.

When I see someone (that I've nevcer seen race before) over-drive into a
corner in practice or warm-up, I can only assume that's how he's
probably going to drive in the race, so I'm gonna be a bit indignant.

--
=========================================================
DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
  http://www.paddedwall.org/demons
DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development)
  http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2
RASCAR Roster
  http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar
Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
  http://www.paddedwall.org/john
Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting)
  http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast

If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
=========================================================

John Simmon

Today's RAS race

by John Simmon » Mon, 27 May 2002 22:07:08



I was just pokin' him in the ribs, and he got pissy.  I wouldn't exactly
call it an argument.

--
=========================================================
DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
  http://www.paddedwall.org/demons
DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development)
  http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2
RASCAR Roster
  http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar
Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
  http://www.paddedwall.org/john
Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting)
  http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast

If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
=========================================================


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