rec.autos.simulators

This bullsh*t has gone on long enough.

Did it ever occur to you that maybe, just _maybe_, most buyers of GP2 are pretty
happy? The truth is that you are so conceited that you take your personal
opinion as FACT. I'm sick of your claims that "most people will confirm that it
is a piece of shit", "serious sim racers agree that it is a rip-off...", "the
newsgroup is full of complaints about...."

I would be very interested to have an exact count of the people who don't like
GP2 in this group. I don't see more than 10. Maybe there are 20??? Just imagine:
about *twenty* people interested in racing simulations around the world. They DO
make a lot of noise, but this is mostly due to their big mouth and the extreme
unballancedness (sp?) of their 'opinions'.

That's just a _very_ small part of the people posting to r.a.s. Add to this the
general rule that most people who are satisfied don't feel the need to post
anyway, and the winers become so unimportant that you have to use a microscope
to discover them.

GP II isn't perfect, but I'm 100% sure that it's the cheapest fun ($ per minute
of entertainment)I have ever purchased.

And now SHUT UP. (grumble,grumble...Parents don't raise their children any more
these days....grumble grumble...)

Jo Helsen

PS: I didn't really mean that you should shut up... Newsgroups are here to
broadcast your opinions. But STOP talking in terms of "most people...", "90% of
serious sim racers..." etc...etc...
"I think that"'s and "In my opinion"'s prevent a lot of irritation.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
When everything else failed, we can still become im-
mortal by making an enormous blunder....

                             John Kenneth Galbraith
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Bollox.

Blah , Blah, inane drivel, moan, whine.....

d:~)

 **Peter**

Wake up!

No Jo it hasnt. If it had I wouldnt be agreeing with people. You need to
read these
posts more often. I've seen a 8 to 10 ratio of complaints in here about
the competency
of GP2 and the lack of support by its creator. Is there a little guy out
on my telephone
wire typing these letters in here? I think not.

"Conceited", Huh?! English must be your second choice of language.
I state the facts that are obvious due to the posts I read.

Who cares what your sick of. I'm sick of people who defend "half-ass".
Their not "claims", READ sometime.

Like I said READ sometime and compare the facts. I actually still
practice
F1 tracks with GP2's simulator. That doesnt mean I accept it as complete
or support the people who designed it. Give credit where credits due.

Whatever that means.

And thats your opinion and your entitled to it, like the rest of us.

When a better F1 sim comes out, you'll see how foolish your defense was
for Microprose.
My opinions and statements stand for the quality of future sims and if
that seems irrational
to you then so be it. I'm not the "end all and be all" and neither are
you. Its the majority
and so far I'm agreeing. The bottom line is that, its not just GP2
itself,
but the way Microprose leaves their customer in the dark with their
ignorance for service.
Its the whole "ball a wax". Stand up for quality instead of bashing
people who do.
If Microprose had any competancy for service then they wouldnt have
people like Mark Rich
representing them. I mean comon, the only representative to pop in here
for months since
this sim has been released and gives his $.02 and then sneeks off into
oblivian when the
customers that bought his company's product ask cold harded questions.
Gimme a break.
You'd be an idiot if you think hes not reading these posts as we speak.

hmmm, need to learn how that clip board works.

AMF,

-DG-

(yawn)

=8>]

=DG=

GP2 : The best racing game that almost was .     :(

=8>]

Your not foolin' anyone Marky....

-DG-

All,

GP2 *is* the best F1 sim out there - OK, so Microprose screwed up and maybe
some things could have been better - but it's pretty ***in' good!!
--
Tom Cosgrave
Guinness Grand Prix :-
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
E-mail :-

"The Jordan factory is at the factory gates..."
"The beak of Ayrton Senna's chicken is pulling ahead !"
"The Italian Grand Prix at Monaco..."
"The enthusiastic enthusiasts..."
"And he has lost BOTH right front tyres !!"
 ALL QUOTES FROM MURRAY WALKER, ITV,
  DATING FROM 1988 TO 1996

[Bruce Wrote...]

Statistics are there to get the whole picture even if you don't have the whole
picture (or something :-)  )

...

It's WWW all over the place. Newsgroups are just not flashy enough for most.

It's a well known fact. Most are attracted by the highly graphical WEB. It's not
a coincidence that the Net only started to grow seriously after the invention of
HTML.

....

about 5.300.000.000 people on earth
20% = ~1.000.000.000 people on the Net? I think we're overestimating things 'a
little'. Internet as a whole is being overestimated lately, BTW. After the hype
has settled down, we'll see what's left. A whole lot, I'm sure, but not half as
much as is being "predicted" by people who it is important for.

I hope you mean 'computer-using people'

You're smarter than I thought! You even _realise_ how few of you GP2-bashers are
around and why GP2-bashing makes a lot more noise than can be justified by the
size of the phenomenon.

Hmmm... Extreme opinions without nuances might ring a bell with some as well. As
long as you continue writing your messages like that, I doubt many readers will
take them serious. It's your choice.

Isolated facts are not everything.

"In the Middle-ages, almost no people died of cancer" might be a fact, but how
useful is that information if you don't add that the average lifetime only
lasted 35 years so that people didn't have time to develope cancer?

GP2 isn't all "rediculous framerate at SVGA full detail". It also is "a lot of
fun at SVGA low detail".

Facts aren't information as long as you don't give the whole picture. And that's
your problem, David.

JoH

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
When everything else failed, we can still become im-
mortal by making an enormous blunder....

                             John Kenneth Galbraith
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

There have been two 'successors' lately: Power F1 and Psygnosis F1. Both were
rumoured to be "GP2-killers".Power F1 turned out to be a JOKE and Psygnosis F1
is a great game but simply doesn't compete in the same league as GP2. It looks
awesome, but how realistic is it as a simulator?

Then there is Starting Grid. I hope it will be worthwhile, but just how long
will it take to release this thing? First they talked about October '96. What
date is it now? Yep.... They're probably waiting for the "Dechutes" processor to
get a good framerate...:-) I'd rather have it _before_ that, to play it at low
detail until I have the money and the processor to upgrade and get good detail
and framerate. That was the philosophy with GP1, and GP2. How many people do you
think could play GP1 25fps full detail at the time? Yep: NONE!

I don't think GP2 is perfect, but I'm absolutely sure that only GP3 will be a
better F1 simulator.

JoH
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
When everything else failed, we can still become im-
mortal by making an enormous blunder....

                             John Kenneth Galbraith
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Notice that I emphasised the word "sim". Power F1 and Psygnosis F1 are not
even close to being simulators and in no way "compete" in the same
category than F1GP2 does.

Just like what happened with GP2, remember? Delays after delays after
delays and after it was finally released some of the promised features
were missing.

Of course it will, no doubt about it. Being a Microprose game, it will
also include a multitude of bugs (most minor, some serious) and there
will never be a patch no matter how serious the bugs are and that's
why I will not buy it. Not to mention I'd have to buy a new computer
to be able to play it, talk about expensive software.

                                -TPP

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(1) The statistics were taken from survey results up to and including
January 1997.
(2) I am not a "Government Statistician" and the survey was not taken by
any Government department nor agency nor were they done at the request of
any such department or agency.
Neither is the retail outlet "one of several thousand": in the area in
which we are based we are the major retailer of entertainment software.
(3) I am also an ISP administrator and the figures concerning newsgroup
usage ARE 100% accurate.

Granted that I'net usage is increasing at a remarkable rate BUT, as an ISP,
I can assure you that (just looking at April's activity figures here)
newsgroup activity is only a tiny part of the total logged time.

I think that the general impression regarding newsgroups is one of "Because
I read/post here, then I'm important!".....an attitude which is egotistic.
A newsgroup is nothing more or less than a gigantic free-for-all.....the
modern equivalent of a market place or town common, where the gossip and
opinions of the day were aired.
However, as a retailer, I would pay immediate attention to a customer who
(a) complained to me personally face-to-face or (b) telephoned or faxed me
or (c) sent me a letter or (d) sent me an email.  I would not lose any
sleep over reading a "This is crap!" post in a newsgroup.  That sort of
thing is an "opinion", not necessarily the basis for a legitimate
complaint.

---
Bruce.
"But that was then....and this is now!"
(Guess who!)

------=_NextPart_000_01BC5EE0.4A197980
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<html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><p><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#000080" face=3D"Comic Sans MS">(1) The statistics were taken =
from survey results up to and including January 1997.<br>(2) I am not a =
&quot;Government Statistician&quot; and the survey was not taken by any =
Government department nor agency nor were they done at the request of =
any such department or agency.<br>Neither is the retail outlet &quot;one =
of several thousand&quot;: in the area in which we are based we are the =
major retailer of entertainment software.<br>(3) I am also an ISP =
administrator and the figures concerning newsgroup usage ARE 100% =
accurate.<br><br>Granted that I'net usage is increasing at a remarkable =
rate BUT, as an ISP, I can assure you that (<font size=3D2>just looking =
at April's activity figures here) <font size=3D2>newsgroup activity is =
only a tiny part of the total logged time.<br><br>I think that the =
general impression regarding newsgroups is one of &quot;Because I =
read/post here, then I'm important!&quot;.....an attitude which is =
egotistic. A newsgroup is nothing more or less than a gigantic =
free-for-all.....the modern equivalent of a market place or town common, =
where the gossip and opinions of the day were aired.<br>However, as a =
retailer, I would pay immediate attention to a customer who (a) =
complained to me personally face-to-face or (b) telephoned or faxed me =
or (c) sent me a letter or (d) sent me an email. &nbsp;I would not lose =
any sleep over reading a &quot;This is crap!&quot; post in a newsgroup. =
&nbsp;That sort of thing is an &quot;opinion&quot;, not necessarily the =
basis for a legitimate complaint.<br><br>---<br>Bruce.<br>&quot;But that =
was then....and this is now!&quot;<br>(Guess who!)<br><br><font =
color=3D"#000000"><br></p>
</font></font></font></font></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_01BC5EE0.4A197980--

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_01BC5EF5.DB17CDA0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

David, you really just don't get the message, do you?
What is it about your ego that will not allow you to understand or accept
that the RAS newsgroup represents a microscopic section of the total
purchasers world-wide of any racing sim, let alone GP2?

See, RAS is a minority group, David. In fact, it's a minor minority group.
It makes a lot of noise within its own environment but that's about all.

Once you can accept that then we may be on the way towards making the world
a better place in which to live!
---
Bruce.
"But that was then....and this is now!"
(Guess who!)

------=_NextPart_000_01BC5EF5.DB17CDA0
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<html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><p><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#000080" face=3D"Comic Sans MS">David, you really just don't =
get the message, do you?<br>What is it about your ego that will not =
allow you to understand or accept that the RAS newsgroup represents a =
microscopic section of the total purchasers world-wide of =
<i><u>any</u></i> racing sim, let alone GP2?<br><br>See, RAS is a =
minority group, David. In fact, it's a <i><u>minor</u></i> minority =
group. &nbsp;It makes a lot of noise within its own environment but =
that's about all. <br><br>Once you can accept that then we may be on the =
way towards making the world a better place in which to live!<br>--- =
<br>Bruce.<br>&quot;But that was then....and this is =
now!&quot;<br>(Guess who!)<br><br><font color=3D"#000000"><br></p>
</font></font></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_01BC5EF5.DB17CDA0--

The bottom line is, Microprose has proven that they donot fall in that
"we produce
products for the customer" catagory and I surely wont waste anymore time
on them.

I would rather go back to playing pole position, before I continue to
stir up people's
emotions over a silly incomplete, piece of software. I think we both
know that the next
F1 "sim" will easily put GP2 under the table and all this BS will come
to an end and we
will surely say, "that was then...this is now".

Take care my man,

-David Gary-

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_01BC5EE0.4A197980 Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

(1) The statistics were taken from survey results up to and including
January 1997. (2) I am not a "Government Statistician" and the survey was
not taken by any Government department nor agency nor were they done at
the request of any such department or agency. Neither is the retail outlet
"one of several thousand": in the area in which we are based we are the
major retailer of entertainment software. (3) I am also an ISP
administrator and the figures concerning newsgroup usage ARE 100%
accurate.

Granted that I'net usage is increasing at a remarkable rate BUT, as an
ISP, I can assure you that (just looking at April's activity figures here)
newsgroup activity is only a tiny part of the total logged time.

I think that the general impression regarding newsgroups is one of
"Because I read/post here, then I'm important!".....an attitude which is
egotistic. A newsgroup is nothing more or less than a gigantic
free-for-all.....the modern equivalent of a market place or town common,
where the gossip and opinions of the day were aired. However, as a
retailer, I would pay immediate attention to a customer who (a) complained
to me personally face-to-face or (b) telephoned or faxed me or (c) sent me
a letter or (d) sent me an email.  I would not lose any sleep over reading
a "This is crap!" post in a newsgroup.  That sort of thing is an
"opinion", not necessarily the basis for a legitimate complaint.

--- Bruce. "But that was then....and this is now!" (Guess who!)

 ------=_NextPart_000_01BC5EE0.4A197980 Content-Type: text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><p><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#000080" face=3D"Comic Sans MS">(1) The statistics were taken =
from survey results up to and including January 1997.<br>(2) I am not a =
&quot;Government Statistician&quot; and the survey was not taken by any =
Government department nor agency nor were they done at the request of =
any such department or agency.<br>Neither is the retail outlet &quot;one =
of several thousand&quot;: in the area in which we are based we are the =
major retailer of entertainment software.<br>(3) I am also an ISP =
administrator and the figures concerning newsgroup usage ARE 100% =
accurate.<br><br>Granted that I'net usage is increasing at a remarkable =
rate BUT, as an ISP, I can assure you that (<font size=3D2>just looking =
at April's activity figures here) <font size=3D2>newsgroup activity is =
only a tiny part of the total logged time.<br><br>I think that the =
general impression regarding newsgroups is one of &quot;Because I =
read/post here, then I'm important!&quot;.....an attitude which is =
egotistic. A newsgroup is nothing more or less than a gigantic =
free-for-all.....the modern equivalent of a market place or town common, =
where the gossip and opinions of the day were aired.<br>However, as a =
retailer, I would pay immediate attention to a customer who (a) =
complained to me personally face-to-face or (b) telephoned or faxed me =
or (c) sent me a letter or (d) sent me an email. &nbsp;I would not lose =
any sleep over reading a &quot;This is crap!&quot; post in a newsgroup. =
&nbsp;That sort of thing is an &quot;opinion&quot;, not necessarily the =
basis for a legitimate complaint.<br><br>---<br>Bruce.<br>&quot;But that =
was then....and this is now!&quot;<br>(Guess who!)<br><br><font =
color=3D"#000000"><br></p> </font></font></font></font></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_01BC5EE0.4A197980--

<

Well, keep this in mind Mr. Retailer, I NEVER buy any computer software
without checking the appropriate newsgroup to see if it is a piece of
unsupported garbage. When more people start following this strategy the
big game companies will pay the price for their transgressions.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------

Jason Nichols

Commissioner

SportSim Football League

http://members.aol.com/jn141414/ssfl.html

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------

OK, enough of the "statistics" chit-chat, The original thread was why
hasnt
Mark Rich of Microprose answered the "REAL" questions. Believe me GP2 is
an
awesome "sim". It has the best "feel" and graphics around. The problem
is
(and everyone knows by now)that no one can enjoy these wonderful
features unless
they have a p200 or higher(which at the time of GP2's creation wasnt
even out to
the general market in most areas) and even those people still had
limitations. not
to mention the others incompetent features like, Multi player and
absence of "traditional"
utilites.

The more important issue was that there was no
more further development to finish it and before this thread starts
another
"who says" "I say" war, the bottom line is:  Where is Microprose's
support in this.
Well its not and I would have cut this thread here until Mark Rich
emailed me to only
leave this:

Well Mark it seems since you are more of a "lurker" than a
representative of your company,
we'll give ya one more shot guy. Hell, maybe since your with Compuserve,
you didnt get all
the posts. Its happens. Well to give you the benefit of a doubt, here
they are again.

1st: Why would you advertise "modem capabilty" when it is obvious
that it wasn't useful in the least?  Even with "direct link" it is
impossible
and most unacceptable to actually work successfully. Did you not know
this
at the time?  Does Microprose have "beta" testers?

2nd: Why would you release a sim made from an engine that wouldnt even
run with half
the details on with the fastest hardware at time? What you
have stated above about 16/17 fps on a p200mmx is based on what? What
track, what location on the track?
How many cars in front?.

3rd and most important of all: Why would Microprose NOT release a
"patch"
or update for this "so-called" masterpiece?!!

I've even edited out any "sarcasm" or "heat" that might be evident.
I couldnt make it anymore easier for you than that Mark.

Its on a silver plater, right there for ya' my man. Go for it!

=8>]

-David Gary-