rec.autos.simulators

I just bought the Diamond Viper 330, and I'm a little disapointed.
Diamond says they will have open GL drivers for win95 soon for this
card, but does that mean I will be able to play the "Glide" version of
CPR? Is OpenGL the same thing as Glide? Dean, or anybody from the Cart
team please let me know if it is worth keeping the Viper or if I need to
get a 3dfx card to run the upcoming CART patch?

Mike

Seems they are playing big time games w/the drivers.  Could cause you a
problem later.  Seriously.

Doug

OpenGL, Direct 3D and Glide are all different and are called API's. Your
Diamond Viper 330 is great for Direct 3D. Once they release OPenGl it will
handle that as well. For Glide, or referred to as 3dfx, you will need a 3dfx
(Voodoo) card. Monster 3D, Pure3D are 3dfx or Voodoo based cards. Which one?
Buy the least expensive one for now since a newer and vastly improved
version (Voodoo 2) will be out sometime in the next 5-8 months. Hope that
helps.

Glide is the native library for 3Dfx only.
Open GL or Direct3D are high level libraries,
they will work with your card provided there
are drivers to support them.

Pascal.

% >
% > I just bought the Diamond Viper 330, and I'm a little disapointed.
% > Diamond says they will have open GL drivers for win95 soon for this
% > card, but does that mean I will be able to play the "Glide" version of
% > CPR? Is OpenGL the same thing as Glide? Dean, or anybody from the Cart
% > team please let me know if it is worth keeping the Viper or if I need to
% > get a 3dfx card to run the upcoming CART patch?
% >
% > Mike

% Boot had some very unflattering things to say about the DV330 and it's
% twin sibling ...  you might want to pick up the latest Boot (the one
% w/the babe on the front) while you can still return your card.

% Seems they are playing big time games w/the drivers.  Could cause you a
% problem later.  Seriously.

That has always been Diamond's biggest problem.  They***around with
their drivers, drag their feet fixing them, and generally provide poor
support for their hardware.  Until they change this track record, I
wouldn't buy one of their products (even if it was rated as the cream of
the crop by a well respected PC rag).  Video cards aren't just hardware
anymore and Diamond hasn't shown that they are capable of keeping up on
the software side.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

CPR already takes advantage of your card for hardware acceleration - this
is the advantage of D3D (a favorite target ... er sorry ... "topic" ... for
ras).

While custom api's like Glide may provide slightly better performance
on 3dfx cards alone (and yes, I have benchmarks for Glide CPR before
anyone jumps in here to "correct" me), they leave all the other card
owners (nVidia, Rendition etc) empty-handed.

You only have to read the threads regarding lack of 3dfx support for
existing
popular sims on this NG to see the difference.

Writing to D3D allows compatibility for many existing - and future - 3D
accelerators, although OEM D3D drivers sometimes take a little while
to materialize.

D3D has only been around for a short while, and as with any "standard" it
takes
a while to be fully supported and optimized. As D3D matures (Open GL
has been around many more years) it will hopefully become exactly the api
the developers want and buyers of 3D accelerators will worry less and
less about the compatibility issues you raise here. That's the theory.

Printers are a good example of the thinking here - a few years ago
getting these devices to work was a nightmare of compatibility. Today
noone thinks twice about buying a printer that is not the #1 brand name
- they all just work.

Stand by for printer tech support flame following this posting!!! - but
you see my point I hope.

Needless to say, writing to both may be a good solution in the meantime,
D3D providing support for the widest range of cards and custom api's
for those that desire a few extra fps.

Asbestos suit on ...

Thanks for the posting. Asbestos suit wasn't needed at all. This time.

As for D3D benchmarks for various cards, it is too early to say for sure -
realworld
apps tend to stress different areas of functionality than pure benchmarks.

The maturity of the drivers is also a critical factor - the hardware may
have
great potential but if the drivers are immature then this performance will
never
be realized.

Older cards tend to be in a strange middle ground - they are not as "hot"
as the latest generation of silicon but they have tested and optimized
drivers.

Did I avoid answering your question successfully?    ; )

OPENGL is another graphics API like Microsofts
Direct3D (D3D) and 3dfx's GLIDE.

There is an OPENGL driver available for Win95 that allows
owners of 3dfx cards to play the game Quake at a very
high graphics quality level. This driver was produced as
a collaborative effort between 3dfx and ID Software.

This driver implements only a subset of the OPENGL
API which is required to support GLQuake in Win95.

What they mean when they say an OPENGL driver is
in development for the Viper (Riva 128) card, is that
GLQuake will soon be able to run on a Riva 128 based
card.

GLIDE is a *** API which is native to the 3dfx
Voodoo Graphics and Voodoo Rush chipset 3D cards.
Games developed with this API tend to be very spectacular
and can only be used on 3dfx equipped cards.

Microsofts Direct3d supports most modern 3D graphics
cards and is somewhat generic in nature. Games written
for this API tend to run slower and tend to be less spectacular
than GLIDE or OPENGL. This is because the Direct3D
programming environment is not optimized to take advantage
of any specific 3D card architecture.

I hope this clears up the confusion

Now go get that 3dfx card (But avoid the 2D/3D combo
cards which use the Rush chipset).

Cheers John Cookson (Canada)

<snip>

Amen ! This is actually one of the only time I am replying to Dean and not
flaming CART:PR ;-)

Direct3D is IMHO the way to go.  3D accelerator cards will not do the same
thing as sound cards. The 3dfx technology will not win like Creative did
with their SoundBlaster sound technology.  OpenGL and Direct3D will win the
war I hope, not because it's the best solution, but because it reaches the
most game users around the planet. And because Microsoft has the Ca$h to put
Direct3D (and DirectX also) into the games.  I will have a STB Velocity 128
AGP on my next PC (Dell 300mhz, the Pc of 1997 and the best video card of
1997).  I think it's unfair to see that somes games go with the 3dfx
technology when they could do their games for better cards like my one
(nVidia chip).

3dfx users are kinda "snobbish".  They think that they are masters of the
*** world because it looks great on theirt PC's.  Remember that GPLegends
will be D3D, not 3dfx.  JediKnight also is D3D. (plenty of <snipped> games
also).

I just hope that the best technology will win.  And that us, the customers,
will be the REAL winners.  But IMHO D3D or OpenGL out good into everynbody.
Make Microsoft happy. Make 3dcard companies happy 'cause they don't have to
worry about the compatibility. Make gamers happy because they will not have
to worry about WITCH technology to get (3dfx/Rendition/nVidia).

Btw Dean, is it real (I heard of that) that the STB nVidia Velocity AGP has
the best DirectX Benchmarks on the market presently ???

With great respect,
May the downforce be with you,
Good race at the Brickyard,  (-o-)

Fran?ois Mnard, "ymenard" on NROS
Team member, Zombie Entreprise
Sponsored by AWPSS, http://www.racesimcentral.net/

SimRacing director,  AWPSS
Official PR,         AWPSS
Director,            The SimRacing Hall-of-Fame
Co-director,         Light-Speed

- *Excuse me for my poor English(I'm French speaking) * -

People must note that Rendition cards have much better picture quality than all
of these!!! =)  Right, Dean (please say "yes"!!!)?

Loren
Team SAVATS

        How about (God forbid) taking advantage of what the 3dfx can
actually do???!?!

        Yeah, and look where the D3D got CART- no excuses, MS, as
usual, writes non-optimized shit. Look at F1RS for proof GL is better.

        If that were the case, we'd all be using OS/2 (or Macs) and
betamax  VCRs. Don't hold your breath, what makes the most $$ for Bill
and Intel is all that matters. They don't give a shit if it's slow,
that's what the next Intel CPU is for.

       ***on any Microsoft "standard" they choose to foist upon us.

        You never win when MS is your OS.

Joe

 Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Or something.

UnserFan1 wrote in article

D3D in current form is most definitely _not_ the way to go. It is a
lowest common denominator solution, which serves to ensure that my
"twin Voodoo2 SLI supersystem" has to suffer the same features as
someone who dropped their xash for a PowerPR. Sorry, but no.

Anyone who develops native support for the best card will get my
money, and in doing so ensure that games are developed to the highest
standard. Remember that any card manufacturer can make a chip based
upon Voodoo, Verite, SGS Thomson or whatever, it's still an open
market. The fight is between the chipset manufacturers to develop and
market the best product in the best manner, and D3d drags 'em all back
down to the same level.

No thank you.

Cheers!
John