rec.autos.simulators

Another suspect CPR Review - Operation 3DFX

Donald R. Chapm

Another suspect CPR Review - Operation 3DFX

by Donald R. Chapm » Sun, 21 Dec 1997 04:00:00

I know I may be beating a dead horse with this one, however, I am once
again amazed at another ridiculously positive review of CART Precision
Racing(CPR). This time from Operation
3DFX(http://www.op3dfx.com/reviews/cart/index.shtml)
I realize that the patch is imminent, but this is a review of the
current product, not with the patch. It lists a patch, but it is the
paintkit(not the frame rate, AI, yellows, pit, etc. patch that we are
all hoping for).

Anyway,  Eagle Woman, Alison Hine, released a very informative and
intelligent review of CPR several days ago on her excellent web
site(http://www.nh.ultranet.com/~alison/sims/index.htm). While
somewhat harsh in tone, it was very honest and fact based, and I
believe she did a great job of describing the frustrations and
disappointments many of us have experienced with CPR. She received
alot of backlash from the CPR supporters, that what she said was
unfair and that she failed to mention CPR's positives.
She has since revised her
review(http://www.nh.ultranet.com/~alison/sims/cpr.htm) to make it
more "balanced". I do not know if this was pressure from said
backlash, or on her own accord, but it seemed more accurate and honest
in its original form. This is her own personal web site which contains
some really good info on racing sims, and as far as I know she gains
nothing commercially from it.
However, it was still suggested by some members of r.a.s that she
should be more responsible and "balanced" when publishing her opinions
and experiences about a game such as CPR.

It is with this in mind that I feel it is just as important to point
out web sites and/or posts that seem to misinform, overlook, or
flat-out lie, when they review a product and give a score that is far
too un-balanced on the positive side. The most glaring of these
reviews on CPR was posted several weeks ago by The Adrenaline
Vault(http://www.avault.com/reviews/cart1.asp). However, the newly
released review by Operation 3DFX takes a close second. The Adrenaline
Vault review pointed out some of CPR's limitations(AI) but then seemed
to ignore it in the final score(4 out of 5 stars for Intelligence &
Difficulty??)
Operation 3DFX essentially lies altogether giving gameplay an 87% and
actually stating,

"Precision Racing's artificial intelligence is not your normal lazy,
noncompetitive, computer opponent. It knows every trick in the book,
such as rolling starts, and daring passes. I found that on rookie
level, the AI was a little too easy. "

What!?! Did they play the same game as the rest of us. Are rolling
starts an AI trick? Is ramming someone from behind, as opposed to
going around, considered a daring pass(ok maybe by Zanardi). Not your
normal, non-competitve computer opponent?? I have beaten the AI by
almost 20mph average in a 20 lap race at full realism/pro settings!!
That, my friend, is NOT competitive. I am not even that good a driver.
The reviewer then goes on to say that on rookie level, the AI was a
little too easy. Come on! I doubt even the CPR supporters will argue
that the above statment is even remotely correct as far as the current
un-patched version of CPR. Opinions are one thing, facts are another.
This is just dishonest journalism. It completely ignores possibly the
#1 problem with CPR in its current form, the AI. Overall, the AI is
just plain bad. Even the CPR development team(Dean and Eric both)
acknowledged the AI limitations from the get go.

Lets go to CPR's major problem #2 - frame rate. Operation 3DFX gives
the graphics a rating of 88% and states,

"As far as graphics go, I didn't see much not to like. With hardware
acceleration on, and all the graphic options turned on, this game
looks incredibly realistic. A lot of racing simulations out today are
great games, but they fail to convince the player that they are racing
at 200 mph's. The good use of hardware acceleration in Precision
Racing, allows you to drive 200mph with the scenery and opponents
zipping by just as if you were in a real racing car. "

First of all, the reviewer fails to mention the system specs of the
machine he tested on. Now I will agree that if any processor and 3D
accelerator were capable of running CPR with all graphic options on
AND a full field of cars, AND perform at a consistent 30fps, then it
would look incredibly realistic. HOWEVER, my machine is ONLY the CPR
recommended P166, 32MB, Pure 3D(3DFX). If I run with full detail in 3D
accelerated mode with any opponents, I get a slide show somewhere in
the range of 10-15fps. I DO NOT feel like I am racing at 200mph. I
will tell you that to achieve frame rates that has "scenery and
opponents zipping by just as if I was in a real racing car" on my
machine, requires me to turn off the cockpit, sky & clouds, shadows,
roadside objects, draw hills, and smoke effects. Only then, I am able
to achieve frame rates in 20-25 range. With all these graphic options
turned off, it no longer looks "incredibly realistic", even if the
sense of speed has improved. Even so, the frame rate will drop back in
the teens if there are computer controlled cars. Now, some peolpe are
going to say, "Your video drivers are not up to date", or "You are not
in Full Screen mode", or "Your 3DFX card is not kicking in". I have
tested CPR on 3 different P166 machines - one with Pure 3D and latest
drivers, one with Diamond Monster 3D and latest drivers, and one with
STB Velocity 128 and latest drivers. The results are virtually the
same. If you need further proof, please go the the excellent CPR fan
site The APEX(http://cart.gamestats.com) and then proceed to the
benchmarks page(http://cart.gamestats.com/benchmarks.htm). These
benchmarks were tested in 3D and non-3D mode, but we are only
concerned with 3D mode here. The third column over from the right
represents  640x480 3D accelerated mode with all graphic options on at
highest detail settings, no map overlay, no pip, no cars on the track,
stopped on the middle of the back straight at Fontana. A P133 with
Diamond Monster 3D shows a frame rate of 9.4fps. A P166 w/Diamond
Monster 3D shows 13.5fps. And a  Dell PII300mhz , 64mb ram, STB
Velocity 128(currently the fastest Direct 3D performer), shows
25.0fps. This would theoretically be the fastest setup availble to
regular consumers for running CPR and it ONLY runs at 25fps. Again,
this is with NO other cars on the track. Add some cars, and the frame
rate will drop from there. Now I know that with graphic detail
tweaking many machines can run close to 30fps, but the review above
states "all graphic options turned on", "scenery and opponents zipping
by", "looks incredibly realistic", and "good use of hardware
acceleration". The point is, CPR is definitely not an example of good
use of 3D hardware acceleration. In fact, I would say that many will
agree with me that it is one of the worst of the current batch of "3D
accelerated" titles. Whether it has to do with CPR's advanced physics
model, limitations of Direct 3D, inefficient programming, or whatever,
the final result remains the same - unimpressive 3D performance. Look
at Ubisoft's F1 Racing for a real example of good use of hardware
acceleration. The recommended settings for that title are the same as
CPR(P166, 3DFX card) and I can run that game  with full detail and
cars on the track and I get smooth, fast performance with a great
sense of speed. Even though I cannot give an exact frame rate(I have
not found if there is a counter), I would venture to say that it
approaches the 25-30fps range. Anyway, since the Operation 3DFX review
does not state what system config the review was performed on,  AND in
fact lists the recommended P166, 32mb, D3D card, I would assume from
the info stated above that CPR would give me an incredibly smooth,
detailed, fast 3D racing game. This is just not the case, and the
review just fails to tell the truth about real world results.

The final issue I have with the CPR review by Operation 3DFX is a
minor one, but it is still a good example of the complete omission of
anything negative about the game. The gameplay section of the review
states:

"While I was playing, one of the things that made me sit up and take
notice is pit row. When I first decided to get some gas, I was
expecting the normal look of pit row, nothing special. The reason for
this is because none of the good racing games out today have realistic
looking and acting pit crews. As I was driving down pit road, a menu
popped up, asking me a few options. I picked recommended, and
proceeded down pit row. As the car pulled to a stop, the pit crew got
to work. They did the normal tire change. To my surprise, they also
came out carrying a new nosepiece for my car, and the put it on. After
they were done, they yelled, Go-Go-Go. This kind of fully animated,
realism is what I have been looking for in a racing simulation. "

I agree that the pit animations are cool, but this whole paragraph
talks about how much this adds to the "realism" of the sim without
even mentioning that this "realistic sim" does not even let you drive
your own car in and out of the pits. I know this is a preference
issue, and that supposedly the patch will allow you to choose whether
you or the computer drives your car in and out of the pits, but to
talk about "realism" and not mention that the pit entrance and exit is
controlled by the computer is again deliberately not telling the whole
story.

I hope the patch solves all the above problems, and that I can enjoy
the game for what it claims to be on its packaging and in its
advertisements. I think that it is unfair that the trend recently in
r.a.s has been to accuse those pointing out CPR's limitations as being
biased or too negative, while many commercial gaming sites and mags
are posting overly postive reviews that either ignore the glaring
problems, or glaze over them because of the promise of a patch.

By the way, which do you think is the more damaging review to the game
buying public? The overly negative review that points out ...

read more »

Randy BO

Another suspect CPR Review - Operation 3DFX

by Randy BO » Sun, 21 Dec 1997 04:00:00

reviews made by gamers for gamers, visit http://www.racesimcentral.net/
They have very good reviews of both CART Precision Racing and ABC Road to Indy,

I think you'll find the same can be said of my reviews Digital Sportspage.  You
don't have to trash a game in its entirety to be "un-biased, fact-based
intelligent", you know.  That seems to be the criteria by which those that hate
a game judge a review.  If it does nothing but trash the game, its an
"un-biased, fact-based, intelligent" review, but if it dares mention positive
features, then the reviewers suck, the reviewers are bought off, etc.  I just
wrote probably the nastiest review I've ever written, for NCAA Gamebreaker 98
for the Playstation.  You should check it out.  If I felt CART deserved GB98
treatment, it would have gotten it.  I suggest you read both the Gamebreaker 98
and CART reviews at Digital Sportspage and then come back and tell me I'm just
biased.

be the best looking site, but it is much more professional and
informative than any of those commercial *** sites.>>

besides Digital Sportspage, that is :)

Randy
Randy Magruder
Staff Writer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Jo

Another suspect CPR Review - Operation 3DFX

by Jo » Sun, 21 Dec 1997 04:00:00


>I think you'll find the same can be said of my reviews Digital Sportspage.  You
>don't have to trash a game in its entirety to be "un-biased, fact-based
>intelligent", you know.  

No, but you do have to honestly communicate the flaws. Obviously the
Op3dfx review fails utterly to do that.

Joe

Donald R. Chapm

Another suspect CPR Review - Operation 3DFX

by Donald R. Chapm » Sun, 21 Dec 1997 04:00:00


I don't think they trashed the game, and I think you have had enough
contact with me personally to know that is not the criteria I use to
tell if a review is worth its salt. By the way, I do not hate CPR. I
just think that it is getting exceptionally good, undeserved reviews
by MOST of the commercial *** sites and mags. Your review at
Digital Sportspage was actually very good and informative as well. But
I have already had countless posts and e-mails about that directly to
you, and in r.a.s. Remember my formal apology to you regarding the ABC
Road to Indy/CPR thread from a couple weeks ago?

Again, that is not what I was saying, and most certainly did not mean
to imply that. I agree there needs to be more balanced posting of
positives and negatives in reviews, but do you disagree that both The
Adrenaline Vault and Operation 3DFX reviews were overly positive in
their evaluations? That was the point of my post. What I was pointing
out was a review that is ridiculously positive, just like you have
pointed out reviews and posts that tend to focus only on the negative.
My beef with the aforementioned reviews is that they not only miss the
negatives, but in some cases completely mislead the consumer. Do you
really feel that I am that off-base?

Cool, I did read it and I completely agree with your review of
Gamebreaker 98, as I have had the game since it came out. I have been
just as frustrated about the *** press gushing over CPR, as you are
about it gushing over Gamebreaker 98. Again, I have been an avid
reader of Digital Sportspage for months and I have made that clear
before. Your review of both CPR and Road to Indy 500 are good and
unbiased. Anyone trying to decide on CPR as a purchase would be good
to start out there.
(http://www.racesimcentral.net/).

Don Chapman

Randy BO

Another suspect CPR Review - Operation 3DFX

by Randy BO » Sun, 21 Dec 1997 04:00:00

<<  I don't think they trashed the game, and I think you have had enough
 contact with me personally to know that is not the criteria I use to
 tell if a review is worth its salt.>>

The reason I wrote what I did was that it seemed like you were saying that Game
Pad was the ONLY place to find a decent review on the 'net, and of course I
would differ with that :)

<< By the way, I do not hate CPR. I  just think that it is getting
exceptionally good, undeserved reviews  by MOST of the commercial *** sites
and mags.

Agreed 100%.  I'm disgusted by the reviews that I read!

 Road to Indy/CPR thread from a couple weeks ago?>>

I'm sure I do, but I might not have associated the name with the post.  Its
hard to keep straight sometimes all the people I e-mail with.  I apologize.

 >> Again, that is not what I was saying, and most certainly did not mean
 to imply that. I agree there needs to be more balanced posting of
 positives and negatives in reviews, but do you disagree that both The
 Adrenaline Vault and Operation 3DFX reviews were overly positive in
 their evaluations?>>

No. Those two reviews were a joke.  Anyone who knows anything about racing sims
know a puff piece when they see one!

No, just you didn't mention the other side of the coin in your post :)

 >> Cool, I did read it and I completely agree with your review of
 Gamebreaker 98, as I have had the game since it came out. <<

Thank God I'm not alone!

<< I have been  just as frustrated about the *** press gushing over CPR, as
you are  about it gushing over Gamebreaker 98. Again, I have been an avid
reader of Digital Sportspage for months and I have made that clear  before.
Your review of both CPR and Road to Indy 500 are good and  unbiased. Anyone
trying to decide on CPR as a purchase would be good  to start out there.
(http://www.racesimcentral.net/).

Thanks!  Perhaps we need to make a standard "recommended review site" list and
include Digital Sportspage and Gamepad.  Go directly there.  Do not pass Avault
and do not collect $200 :)

Randy
Randy Magruder
Staff Writer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Randy BO

Another suspect CPR Review - Operation 3DFX

by Randy BO » Sun, 21 Dec 1997 04:00:00

review fails utterly to do that. >>

Agreed.  I did not mean to come off sounding like I was defending those puff
pieces.  Just wanted to get in that Gamepad isn't the only good place in town
to get honest, fairly unbiased reviews.  Digital Sportspage is pretty
religious.  You should see my NCAA Gamebreaker 98 review.  I'm already putting
on layers of flame-proof clothing :)

Randy
Randy Magruder
Staff Writer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com/

Ken

Another suspect CPR Review - Operation 3DFX

by Ken » Sun, 21 Dec 1997 04:00:00

Thanks for the comments about Game Pad. We do try to be unbiased in our reviews and we do
actually buy our own games to review. Anyone on this site interested in writing reviews
is welcome to contact us. While I may not always agree with Randy at Digital Sports, I do
believe that his reviews are very thorough and well balanced. When I am on the fence
about purchasing a particular game and he already has a review out,  then that is one of
the places I know I can go to get an intelligent review. I just wish there were more
sites like that, which is why I started The Game Pad in the first place. Back to F1RS. (
I know I promised a review on it this week, but...well..ummm....I'm having too much time
racing to write one now. Next week I promise.( he says with fingers crossed his behind
back)

                                                                    Lets Go Racing,
                                                                               Ken
The Game Pad
http://gamepad.org/

Ken

Another suspect CPR Review - Operation 3DFX

by Ken » Mon, 22 Dec 1997 04:00:00

I meant to say anyone is this newsgroup, not site. Sorry for the confusion.


> Anyone on this site interested in writing reviews is welcome to contact
> us.                                                                     Lets Go Racing,
>                                                                                Ken
> The Game Pad
> http://gamepad.org/

Jo

Another suspect CPR Review - Operation 3DFX

by Jo » Mon, 22 Dec 1997 04:00:00


>Agreed.  I did not mean to come off sounding like I was defending those puff
>pieces.  Just wanted to get in that Gamepad isn't the only good place in town
>to get honest, fairly unbiased reviews.  Digital Sportspage is pretty
>religious.  You should see my NCAA Gamebreaker 98 review.  I'm already putting
>on layers of flame-proof clothing :)

I checked out your site's NHL98 review, as that was a game that was
vastly over-hyped and over-rated in most reviews. Yours is good, it
does convey the problems in the game. I'll keep an eye on your site,
those honest reviews are hard to find sometimes.

Joe

Trevor C Thoma

Another suspect CPR Review - Operation 3DFX

by Trevor C Thoma » Fri, 26 Dec 1997 04:00:00


> I know I may be beating a dead horse with this one, however, I am once
> again amazed at another ridiculously positive review of CART Precision
> Racing(CPR). This time from Operation
> 3DFX(http://www.op3dfx.com/reviews/cart/index.shtml)
> I realize that the patch is imminent, but this is a review of the
> current product, not with the patch. It lists a patch, but it is the
> paintkit(not the frame rate, AI, yellows, pit, etc. patch that we are
> all hoping for).

<SNIP>

If you are interested in finding out what is really happening with CART
and not just being another "me too" flamer, then email me. I'm on the
CART beta testing team and we have the second patch CD right now.

Patched CART is a whole nother sim, BTW.

Trev

Leho Kra

Another suspect CPR Review - Operation 3DFX

by Leho Kra » Sat, 27 Dec 1997 04:00:00

Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 14:26:21 GMT

About: Another suspect CPR Review - Operation 3DFX
[e-mailed and posted, please reply to rec.autos.simulators if
possible]

I might be jumping in a few days late here, but anyway:

the word 'incompetent' is the best I've found so far for describing
the reviews and reviewers, who practically don't know what the hell
they're writing about. Unfortunately, the reviews on op3dfx.com are
among the worst I've seen yet (avault.com comes up close second),
although their news section is excellent. Reviews of NHL '98, NBA Live
'98 and NHL Powerplay '98 clearly demonstrate that, with NHL '98's
review winning by a long shot (in patheticness). They talk so much
about 'realism', yet, I as a reader, get the feeling they don't have a
clue what goes on in the _real_ game. But then again, I've usually
already played the games they're reviewing, so I know whether it's BS
or not - it would be so much harder, if I hadn't played them upfront.

The point is: don't believe. Read newsgroups. Then spend money. :]


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