rec.autos.simulators

by **MipMa** » Tue, 05 Jan 1999 04:00:00

Hello,

I currently own a T2 but I want to change for something better (better
wheel, better pedals and so on)

I hesitate between :

1 - T2 !!!! if there is nothing better at the same price
2 - ACT LABS (force feedback or not, I don't care for GPL)
3 - TSW or TSW2
4 - Speedway (I've heard some words about it but do not know more than its
name)

I'd like to know which is the best TSW or TSW2 (stock, modified...) to drive
GPL at "low" cost.... (I can't pay 900 $ for a wheel). 400-500$ may be the
maximum but only if it worth the prize and has a cutting edge on ACTLABS
wheel...

Happy new year from France

Norbert

by **Steve Bowe** » Tue, 05 Jan 1999 04:00:00

I own a TSW2 that replaced my TM T-1 and recently borrowed a friend's
Act Labs Force RS. I am surprised no one has mentioned the "gearish"
feel of the Act Labs wheel. It feels like you can count the cogs on the
thing. The pedals are awful, not just compared to the TSW2, but even to
my old Thrustmaster (when it wasn't eating springs!) It is difficult to
give partial throttle or brake, and they are a little sticky. The force
feedback is nicely implemented in Viper Racing, but made Powerslide
simply undriveable. That was surprising since Powerslide works great
with my Microsoft FF joystick (and the TSW2 obviously without FF). I am
not a super driver compared to most that hang out here, but my lap times
on Viper racing were close to the same at the Dayton oval with the Act
Labs vs TSW2, but at the road courses, I was always 2 to 3 seconds a lap
faster with my TSW2. The precision of the wheel and especially pedals
made me feel much more in control and able to turn better times. Before
anyone asks, I paid full price for my TSW2 - this is not a paid favor
for Trev. If I had no wheel and was looking to spend anywhere close to
$200, I'd get a TSW2 in a heartbeat over any FF presently out there.
The only things I don't like about my TSW2 - the potentiometers aren't
very good, as shipped it is not split axis for gas and brakes, the
shifter is on the dash, not on the wheel. All those things are options
on regular TSWs and I think TSW2s as well, but made the price too high
for my budget. Happy driving.

> Hello,

> I currently own a T2 but I want to change for something better (better
> wheel, better pedals and so on)

> I hesitate between :

> 1 - T2 !!!! if there is nothing better at the same price
> 2 - ACT LABS (force feedback or not, I don't care for GPL)
> 3 - TSW or TSW2
> 4 - Speedway (I've heard some words about it but do not know more than its
> name)

> I'd like to know which is the best TSW or TSW2 (stock, modified...) to drive
> GPL at "low" cost.... (I can't pay 900 $ for a wheel). 400-500$ may be the
> maximum but only if it worth the prize and has a cutting edge on ACTLABS
> wheel...

> Happy new year from France

> Norbert

by **Tony Borro** » Tue, 05 Jan 1999 04:00:00

>Hello,

>I currently own a T2 but I want to change for something better (better
>wheel, better pedals and so on)

>I hesitate between :

>1 - T2 !!!! if there is nothing better at the same price
>2 - ACT LABS (force feedback or not, I don't care for GPL)
>3 - TSW or TSW2
>4 - Speedway (I've heard some words about it but do not know more than its
>name)

>I'd like to know which is the best TSW or TSW2 (stock, modified...) to
drive
>GPL at "low" cost.... (I can't pay 900 $ for a wheel). 400-500$ may be the
>maximum but only if it worth the prize and has a cutting edge on ACTLABS
>wheel...

>Happy new year from France

>Norbert

Well, if you're the slightest bit handy, the wheel and peddle feel on a
Hyper Stimulator kit is VERY nice.

I'm not sure what the price would be in France, but the kits are quite
reasonably priced over here.

Check out:

http://www.hyperstim.com/

TB

by FK » Tue, 05 Jan 1999 04:00:00

ECCI-CDS2
http://www.desktopsims.com/cds2e.htm

I have one. It is the best. After breaking 3 TM-T2. This wheel can take the
punishment. Works great on all racing sims. Excellent on Screamer2. Try
S2 on a plastic wheel and you will know what I'm talking about.

better fit ,finish, and quality than TSW

Fred

by FK » Tue, 05 Jan 1999 04:00:00

Ooops this is a better page
http://www.desktopsims.com/cds2c.htm

by **John Moor** » Wed, 06 Jan 1999 04:00:00

I would love to have a hyper, but here in the us the kit would be a months take
home pay!
JM

> >Hello,

> >I currently own a T2 but I want to change for something better (better
> >wheel, better pedals and so on)

> >I hesitate between :

> >1 - T2 !!!! if there is nothing better at the same price
> >2 - ACT LABS (force feedback or not, I don't care for GPL)
> >3 - TSW or TSW2
> >4 - Speedway (I've heard some words about it but do not know more than its
> >name)

> >I'd like to know which is the best TSW or TSW2 (stock, modified...) to
> drive
> >GPL at "low" cost.... (I can't pay 900 $ for a wheel). 400-500$ may be the
> >maximum but only if it worth the prize and has a cutting edge on ACTLABS
> >wheel...

> >Happy new year from France

> >Norbert

> Well, if you're the slightest bit handy, the wheel and peddle feel on a
> Hyper Stimulator kit is VERY nice.

> I'm not sure what the price would be in France, but the kits are quite
> reasonably priced over here.

> Check out:

> http://www.hyperstim.com/

> TB

by **Thomas Enterprise** » Wed, 06 Jan 1999 04:00:00

> better fit ,finish, and quality than TSW

> Fred

I would like to know what you base the above statement of "fact" on?
Just because you spent far too much money on something which gives no
better value per dollar spent than any TSW or TSW2 model does not make
it a better product, in future it would be better if you include an
"IMO" in your statements of comparison.

by **Rick Carls** » Wed, 06 Jan 1999 04:00:00

On Mon, 4 Jan 1999 17:59:26 -0800, "FK"

>ECCI-CDS2
>http://www.racesimcentral.net/

>I have one. It is the best. After breaking 3 TM-T2. This wheel can take the
>punishment. Works great on all racing sims. Excellent on Screamer2. Try
>S2 on a plastic wheel and you will know what I'm talking about.

>better fit ,finish, and quality than TSW

>Fred

It may be prettier, but the TSW is the best for the buck anywhere. I
don't spend any time looking at the wheel anyway, most of it is spent
studying the grass and sh***y in GPL.

Regards,

Rick Carlson

MSP Blue Goose Pilot #177 Car 3404

by **Randy Wilso** » Wed, 06 Jan 1999 04:00:00

Actually,

Car & Driver did a comparo of a bunch of wheels (Dec issue, I think) &
said basically that fit, finish & quality of the ECCI-CDS2 was far
better than the TSW. They still awarded the TSW 1st place due to the
fact that it is MUCH cheaper than ECCI-CDS2.

Just my .02

Randy

> You broke 3 TM-T2, and in the same breath you say ECCI-CDS2 is better
> than the TSW?. Your post is a little confusing here or better yet,
> you're a little confused about how to compare products which you seem
> to know nothing about or forgot to mention that you had owned or may
> not have owned a TSW.

> Have you or do you own a TSW Fred?. If not then you owe TSW an apology
> for making a FALSE comparison. If you do/did then your opinion should
> have mentioned a comparison of all 3 wheels...don't you think?

> SG

by **Tony Borro** » Wed, 06 Jan 1999 04:00:00

Actually, C&D was a little more scathing than that, but I don't subscribe to
the magazine anymore, so I can't give you a direct quote.

I considered getting an ECCI or TSW, but I decided to go with a
Hyperstimulator instead. So far, I've been delighted with it.

Cheers,
TB

>Actually,

>Car & Driver did a comparo of a bunch of wheels (Dec issue, I think) &
>said basically that fit, finish & quality of the ECCI-CDS2 was far
>better than the TSW. They still awarded the TSW 1st place due to the
>fact that it is MUCH cheaper than ECCI-CDS2.

>Just my .02

>Randy

>> You broke 3 TM-T2, and in the same breath you say ECCI-CDS2 is better
>> than the TSW?. Your post is a little confusing here or better yet,
>> you're a little confused about how to compare products which you seem
>> to know nothing about or forgot to mention that you had owned or may
>> not have owned a TSW.

>> Have you or do you own a TSW Fred?. If not then you owe TSW an apology
>> for making a FALSE comparison. If you do/did then your opinion should
>> have mentioned a comparison of all 3 wheels...don't you think?

>> SG

by **John** » Wed, 06 Jan 1999 04:00:00

I own a TSW2 wheel, a team mate of mine owns an ECCI wheel. We race Burnout
PCE and I'm typically faster than he is using the same setups. Granted we
don't do a lot of left and right steering but it is necessary to keep the
car in the groove. The ECCI is a very fine product. But for the money and
the guarantee Thomas Enterprises offers with their products. My choice was
TSW.

by **robert le** » Thu, 07 Jan 1999 04:00:00

Actually, C&D used the CDS4000, not the CDS2, in the comparison. I don't
know how much better the CDS4000 is compared to the CDS2 (haven't tried the
CDS4000, can't go anywhere to try it, don't know anyone who has one), but
the CDS2 is significantly cheaper than the CDS4000. If C&D had used the
CDS2 in the comparison, the price issue would have been a non-issue (and may
have changed the outcome of the comparison), since the CDS2 is similarly
priced to the TSW unit they tested (with similar features, except no paddle
shifter on the CDS2...can't find my C&D now, but did the TSW unit have the
Momo wheel? That's nice, but can you really feel the difference between a
Momo suede wheel and a non-Momo suede wheel).

Can't comment on the TSW wheels either, since I haven't tried it, can't go
anywhere to try it, and don't know anyone who has one... BUT I can comment
that I love my CDS2, and have no regrets about spending $600 on it.
Actually, the only regret I have is that I don't have enough time to play
games and use my CDS2...

One question that bugs me is this: how could many people on this newsgroup
constantly upgrade their hardware with the latest stuff, to extract maximum
performance, only to settle on a sub-$100 wheel... Having a nice wheel
really does add to the enjoyment of the game!!!

>Actually,

>Car & Driver did a comparo of a bunch of wheels (Dec issue, I think) &
>said basically that fit, finish & quality of the ECCI-CDS2 was far
>better than the TSW. They still awarded the TSW 1st place due to the
>fact that it is MUCH cheaper than ECCI-CDS2.

>Just my .02

>Randy

by **Thomas Enterprise** » Thu, 07 Jan 1999 04:00:00

> It may be prettier, but the TSW is the best for the buck anywhere. I
> don't spend any time looking at the wheel anyway, most of it is spent
> studying the grass and sh***y in GPL.

> Regards,

> Rick Carlson

Rick,

Thanks a lot for the support :) I hate to see an ECCI owner bashing our
product for no good reason. IMO it seems as though it may be an effort
to justify having spent far more money than necessary and not getting
any more value for it.

Car and Driver magazine seems to agree with me since they rated us
No1<g>!

Trev

by **Thomas Enterprise** » Thu, 07 Jan 1999 04:00:00

> You broke 3 TM-T2, and in the same breath you say ECCI-CDS2 is better
> than the TSW?. Your post is a little confusing here or better yet,
> you're a little confused about how to compare products which you seem
> to know nothing about or forgot to mention that you had owned or may
> not have owned a TSW.

> Have you or do you own a TSW Fred?. If not then you owe TSW an apology
> for making a FALSE comparison. If you do/did then your opinion should
> have mentioned a comparison of all 3 wheels...don't you think?

> SG

Couldnt have said it better :) I hate to see ECCI owners bashing our
product for no reason, especially since we offer so much more value per
dollar spent if you consider what you get. We have two product lines
with several models, each model is totally customizable and best of all,
the TSW and TSW2 last forever and are warranted for life.

Trev

by **Thomas Enterprise** » Thu, 07 Jan 1999 04:00:00

> I own a TSW2 wheel, a team mate of mine owns an ECCI wheel. We race Burnout
> PCE and I'm typically faster than he is using the same setups. Granted we
> don't do a lot of left and right steering but it is necessary to keep the
> car in the groove. The ECCI is a very fine product. But for the money and
> the guarantee Thomas Enterprises offers with their products. My choice was
> TSW.

Thanks John, its nice to see that there are supporters of Thomas
Enterprises and the TSW/TSW2 here in the newsgroup :). I'd think there
maybe be more than a few judging by how many we sell in a month<g>!

BTW Car and Driver magazine December 98 ish also said that the TSW gives
better laptimes than the ECCI and this was at Sears Point where there is
a lot of back and forth.

We DO NOT claim this to be the case but we certainly DO feel we give
better value per dollar spent than any other wheel maker if all factors
are considered. As far as this claim by some ECCI owners that their
wheel is better in any way cannot be backed by proof IMO.

What burned me was the flat statement that the ECCI is superior,
especially since there was no "IMO" and no proof and I doubt the guy
ever owned a TSW or TSW2 product.

Trev

rec.autos.simulators

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