rec.autos.simulators

Nascar 2003: Beta Testers Running in Leagues. Lets Level the Playing Field!

Don Wilsh

Nascar 2003: Beta Testers Running in Leagues. Lets Level the Playing Field!

by Don Wilsh » Thu, 03 Apr 2003 04:56:31

Beta Testers!

Seem to me it would be the fair, just and honorable thing to do to tell us
regular racers what are the
holes in the games, and what will be fixed in the patch..  Many of you race
with us and you have
knowledge that we dont have.  We realize you are fortunate with priviledged
information, but that
doesnt level the playing field.   I have read several posts here of some
phyics holes and coding
problems in the game.   Now you all have this information, but you havent to
date shared it with
the regular people!   Its great to be part of a knowledge base.   Buts its
not fair if you know of
problems!  Some of these problems will never be fixed and can be exploited
until the end of
time..   Please consider!   Need more speed. hehe

Don Wilshe

Mike Grand

Nascar 2003: Beta Testers Running in Leagues. Lets Level the Playing Field!

by Mike Grand » Thu, 03 Apr 2003 05:57:31

I found a hole, or was that a wall. )

--


Goy Larse

Nascar 2003: Beta Testers Running in Leagues. Lets Level the Playing Field!

by Goy Larse » Thu, 03 Apr 2003 05:59:58

Back to your old games are you Don ? :-)

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
"goyl at nettx dot no"

http://www.theuspits.com

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
--Groucho Marx--

Kevin Kin

Nascar 2003: Beta Testers Running in Leagues. Lets Level the Playing Field!

by Kevin Kin » Thu, 03 Apr 2003 06:14:14

Actually Don, I've been in contact with many of them, and they didn't know about these flaws.  You think they would say "Hey if I leave this in I could have an advantage..."  Wrong.  And you wanting to KNOW about these flaws is just childish and frankly lame.  I mean cmon, think about what you just said.  I always knew you were about exploiting things, but man you sure showed it with this one.

Kevin

Don Wilsh

Nascar 2003: Beta Testers Running in Leagues. Lets Level the Playing Field!

by Don Wilsh » Thu, 03 Apr 2003 08:11:00

so as a beta tester Goy you are saying you just gonna keep the secrets to
yourself..
I think thats not right.   Inside information and you keep the advantage.
And than you
use that information to race against others..

DW



> Back to your old games are you Don ? :-)

> Beers and cheers
> (uncle) Goy
> "goyl at nettx dot no"

> http://www.theuspits.com

> "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
> --Groucho Marx--

Don Wilsh

Nascar 2003: Beta Testers Running in Leagues. Lets Level the Playing Field!

by Don Wilsh » Thu, 03 Apr 2003 08:13:39

Its not very reassuring to know that Papyrus doesnt know about these flaws in the game.

You really think Papyrus is  gonna tell the truth.

You expect us regular guys to believe that 30 beta testers get together and dont discount problems and solutions.

Hear, See and Say no evil about this game..  

hehe

DW  

  Actually Don, I've been in contact with many of them, and they didn't know about these flaws.  You think they would say "Hey if I leave this in I could have an advantage..."  Wrong.  And you wanting to KNOW about these flaws is just childish and frankly lame.  I mean cmon, think about what you just said.  I always knew you were about exploiting things, but man you sure showed it with this one.

  Kevin

Kevin Kin

Nascar 2003: Beta Testers Running in Leagues. Lets Level the Playing Field!

by Kevin Kin » Thu, 03 Apr 2003 08:21:22

I bet I know more about what is going on right now than you do.  So yeah I will say they did miss it and will fix it.

  Its not very reassuring to know that Papyrus doesnt know about these flaws in the game.

  You really think Papyrus is  gonna tell the truth.

  You expect us regular guys to believe that 30 beta testers get together and dont discount problems and solutions.

  Hear, See and Say no evil about this game..  

  hehe

  DW  

    Actually Don, I've been in contact with many of them, and they didn't know about these flaws.  You think they would say "Hey if I leave this in I could have an advantage..."  Wrong.  And you wanting to KNOW about these flaws is just childish and frankly lame.  I mean cmon, think about what you just said.  I always knew you were about exploiting things, but man you sure showed it with this one.

    Kevin

Jay Taylo

Nascar 2003: Beta Testers Running in Leagues. Lets Level the Playing Field!

by Jay Taylo » Thu, 03 Apr 2003 08:37:22

In translation this means....  I really really want to know if the exploits
I've been able to take advantage of are going to be fixed, so I know if I'll
still maintain my advantage.

I realize your chassis dragging setups are near and dear to you, but you'll
just have to wait and find out like everyone else.  Besides until anything
is final, there's no point is disccusing it since it could still change.  Be
a good sport, and wait like everyone else.  As for your comments about the
beta testers, you know very well they are all covered with NDA's.  Which
means if they want to remain beta testers they can not discuss what may or
may not be changed, tweeked, adjusted, fixed, or reworked in anyway.  You
can dislike it all you want, but its not going to change.  Besides the
claims that beta testers have any tangible advantage is laughable.  I guess
your just worried they may know of an exploit you havn't found yet.  Most of
the beta testers I know probably aren't racing in any league your a part of,
so whats the problem?

Jay Taylor


Don Wilsh

Nascar 2003: Beta Testers Running in Leagues. Lets Level the Playing Field!

by Don Wilsh » Thu, 03 Apr 2003 09:07:35

Im postive you do know.. and if you know we should know.  Thats my point...  Getting secret information
for advantage isnt fair.. DW


  I bet I know more about what is going on right now than you do.  So yeah I will say they did miss it and will fix it.

    Its not very reassuring to know that Papyrus doesnt know about these flaws in the game.

    You really think Papyrus is  gonna tell the truth.

    You expect us regular guys to believe that 30 beta testers get together and dont discount problems and solutions.

    Hear, See and Say no evil about this game..  

    hehe

    DW  

      Actually Don, I've been in contact with many of them, and they didn't know about these flaws.  You think they would say "Hey if I leave this in I could have an advantage..."  Wrong.  And you wanting to KNOW about these flaws is just childish and frankly lame.  I mean cmon, think about what you just said.  I always knew you were about exploiting things, but man you sure showed it with this one.

      Kevin

Don Wilsh

Nascar 2003: Beta Testers Running in Leagues. Lets Level the Playing Field!

by Don Wilsh » Thu, 03 Apr 2003 09:10:43

Jay.. your right

its us and them.. them racing against us....

We should always have an equal chance to win...

NDA I understand... But how about some leaks.. There are
non betas that have information...

laughable.

Right I have been a beta tester for 10 years just in sim racing..  I think
i know what kind of informatioin goes on between a large group of
testers.. ie, visit www.games-advertising.com

Don


> In translation this means....  I really really want to know if the
exploits
> I've been able to take advantage of are going to be fixed, so I know if
I'll
> still maintain my advantage.

> I realize your chassis dragging setups are near and dear to you, but
you'll
> just have to wait and find out like everyone else.  Besides until anything
> is final, there's no point is disccusing it since it could still change.
Be
> a good sport, and wait like everyone else.  As for your comments about the
> beta testers, you know very well they are all covered with NDA's.  Which
> means if they want to remain beta testers they can not discuss what may or
> may not be changed, tweeked, adjusted, fixed, or reworked in anyway.  You
> can dislike it all you want, but its not going to change.  Besides the
> claims that beta testers have any tangible advantage is laughable.  I
guess
> your just worried they may know of an exploit you havn't found yet.  Most
of
> the beta testers I know probably aren't racing in any league your a part
of,
> so whats the problem?

> Jay Taylor



> > Beta Testers!

> > Seem to me it would be the fair, just and honorable thing to do to tell
us
> > regular racers what are the
> > holes in the games, and what will be fixed in the patch..  Many of you
> race
> > with us and you have
> > knowledge that we dont have.  We realize you are fortunate with
> priviledged
> > information, but that
> > doesnt level the playing field.   I have read several posts here of some
> > phyics holes and coding
> > problems in the game.   Now you all have this information, but you
havent
> to
> > date shared it with
> > the regular people!   Its great to be part of a knowledge base.   Buts
its
> > not fair if you know of
> > problems!  Some of these problems will never be fixed and can be
exploited
> > until the end of
> > time..   Please consider!   Need more speed. hehe

> > Don Wilshe

Kevin Kin

Nascar 2003: Beta Testers Running in Leagues. Lets Level the Playing Field!

by Kevin Kin » Thu, 03 Apr 2003 09:25:12

I don't have any secret information, I know that they know what's wrong and are trying to fix it.  This is a race sim, not a "tell me all the loopholes so I can use them to my advantage" game.  

  Im postive you do know.. and if you know we should know.  Thats my point...  Getting secret information
  for advantage isnt fair.. DW


    I bet I know more about what is going on right now than you do.  So yeah I will say they did miss it and will fix it.

      Its not very reassuring to know that Papyrus doesnt know about these flaws in the game.

      You really think Papyrus is  gonna tell the truth.

      You expect us regular guys to believe that 30 beta testers get together and dont discount problems and solutions.

      Hear, See and Say no evil about this game..  

      hehe

      DW  

        Actually Don, I've been in contact with many of them, and they didn't know about these flaws.  You think they would say "Hey if I leave this in I could have an advantage..."  Wrong.  And you wanting to KNOW about these flaws is just childish and frankly lame.  I mean cmon, think about what you just said.  I always knew you were about exploiting things, but man you sure showed it with this one.

        Kevin

Kevin Kin

Nascar 2003: Beta Testers Running in Leagues. Lets Level the Playing Field!

by Kevin Kin » Thu, 03 Apr 2003 09:29:36

Don what part don't you get?

For some reason you think there are beta testers that withheld these loopholes for advantages, and you're saying there has to be more and you want dibs on them.  Seriously think about what you're saying.  I have yet to see a Beta tester just blow away the field because of some little trick they know.  And when you say us, please do not include the honest racers out there in your little group.  As of now you are the only one jumping up and down crying for all the loopholes to be told so you can use them against people.  Seriously how old are you?

  Jay.. your right

  its us and them.. them racing against us....

  We should always have an equal chance to win...

  NDA I understand... But how about some leaks.. There are
  non betas that have information...

  laughable.

  Right I have been a beta tester for 10 years just in sim racing..  I think
  i know what kind of informatioin goes on between a large group of
  testers.. ie, visit www.games-advertising.com

  Don



  > In translation this means....  I really really want to know if the
  exploits
  > I've been able to take advantage of are going to be fixed, so I know if
  I'll
  > still maintain my advantage.
  >
  > I realize your chassis dragging setups are near and dear to you, but
  you'll
  > just have to wait and find out like everyone else.  Besides until anything
  > is final, there's no point is disccusing it since it could still change.
  Be
  > a good sport, and wait like everyone else.  As for your comments about the
  > beta testers, you know very well they are all covered with NDA's.  Which
  > means if they want to remain beta testers they can not discuss what may or
  > may not be changed, tweeked, adjusted, fixed, or reworked in anyway.  You
  > can dislike it all you want, but its not going to change.  Besides the
  > claims that beta testers have any tangible advantage is laughable.  I
  guess
  > your just worried they may know of an exploit you havn't found yet.  Most
  of
  > the beta testers I know probably aren't racing in any league your a part
  of,
  > so whats the problem?
  >
  > Jay Taylor
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >


  > > Beta Testers!
  > >
  > > Seem to me it would be the fair, just and honorable thing to do to tell
  us
  > > regular racers what are the
  > > holes in the games, and what will be fixed in the patch..  Many of you
  > race
  > > with us and you have
  > > knowledge that we dont have.  We realize you are fortunate with
  > priviledged
  > > information, but that
  > > doesnt level the playing field.   I have read several posts here of some
  > > phyics holes and coding
  > > problems in the game.   Now you all have this information, but you
  havent
  > to
  > > date shared it with
  > > the regular people!   Its great to be part of a knowledge base.   Buts
  its
  > > not fair if you know of
  > > problems!  Some of these problems will never be fixed and can be
  exploited
  > > until the end of
  > > time..   Please consider!   Need more speed. hehe
  > >
  > > Don Wilshe
  > >
  > >
  > >
  >
  >
  >

Schoone

Nascar 2003: Beta Testers Running in Leagues. Lets Level the Playing Field!

by Schoone » Thu, 03 Apr 2003 09:30:47

Part of running in a league IMHO deals with being part of a community,
having fun, and being honest and fair.  What is proven by beating someone
using cheats and loopholes?  Perhaps winning every race doesn't mean as much
in the league I race as does the fun and competition.  Yes it would be nice
if Papyrus could fix all these bugs but in the end it comes down to honesty
and fair play.


Jay Taylo

Nascar 2003: Beta Testers Running in Leagues. Lets Level the Playing Field!

by Jay Taylo » Thu, 03 Apr 2003 09:30:33

Don,
I'm sure some info does leak, its kind of the nature of the beast, but that
doesn't make it right.  However I'm fairly sure much current info hasn't.  I
assure you the beta testers know of no exploit or flaw which they can use to
their advantage, that you yourself could not find if you choose to spend the
time looking for them.  The run the same game you do, atleast for anything
online thru the sierra servers.  So all they can possibly have is knowledge,
which can be useful, but is there for anyone else to learn.  The only reason
a beta tester may know of any of this is because they need to in order to
test properly to make sure these problems are fixed.  You have to understand
the problem to make sure its fixed correctly.

I know and have raced with most if not all of the beta team, and I do not
think any of them would use any of these exploits in a league  ( or even a
pick up for that matter) race.  Its pretty easy to tell when someone is
using one of them, not just by their speeds, or lack of speed fall off, but
also my the attitude of the car thru the corner.  Just because someone knows
of an exploit doesn't mean they would use it.  Not everyone is like that.
If you feel there is a beta tester taking advantage of something somewhere
please show me.

Jay


> Jay.. your right

> its us and them.. them racing against us....

> We should always have an equal chance to win...

> NDA I understand... But how about some leaks.. There are
> non betas that have information...

> laughable.

> Right I have been a beta tester for 10 years just in sim racing..  I think
> i know what kind of informatioin goes on between a large group of
> testers.. ie, visit www.games-advertising.com

> Don



> > In translation this means....  I really really want to know if the
> exploits
> > I've been able to take advantage of are going to be fixed, so I know if
> I'll
> > still maintain my advantage.

> > I realize your chassis dragging setups are near and dear to you, but
> you'll
> > just have to wait and find out like everyone else.  Besides until
anything
> > is final, there's no point is disccusing it since it could still change.
> Be
> > a good sport, and wait like everyone else.  As for your comments about
the
> > beta testers, you know very well they are all covered with NDA's.  Which
> > means if they want to remain beta testers they can not discuss what may
or
> > may not be changed, tweeked, adjusted, fixed, or reworked in anyway.
You
> > can dislike it all you want, but its not going to change.  Besides the
> > claims that beta testers have any tangible advantage is laughable.  I
> guess
> > your just worried they may know of an exploit you havn't found yet.
Most
> of
> > the beta testers I know probably aren't racing in any league your a part
> of,
> > so whats the problem?

> > Jay Taylor



> > > Beta Testers!

> > > Seem to me it would be the fair, just and honorable thing to do to
tell
> us
> > > regular racers what are the
> > > holes in the games, and what will be fixed in the patch..  Many of you
> > race
> > > with us and you have
> > > knowledge that we dont have.  We realize you are fortunate with
> > priviledged
> > > information, but that
> > > doesnt level the playing field.   I have read several posts here of
some
> > > phyics holes and coding
> > > problems in the game.   Now you all have this information, but you
> havent
> > to
> > > date shared it with
> > > the regular people!   Its great to be part of a knowledge base.   Buts
> its
> > > not fair if you know of
> > > problems!  Some of these problems will never be fixed and can be
> exploited
> > > until the end of
> > > time..   Please consider!   Need more speed. hehe

> > > Don Wilshe

Schoone

Nascar 2003: Beta Testers Running in Leagues. Lets Level the Playing Field!

by Schoone » Thu, 03 Apr 2003 09:37:56

I'd have to agree 100% with your comments.  I am sure that Papyrus beta
testers are there for the greater good and to help make such we have a solid
sim for years to come.  Covering up bugs so a few can cheat seems childish
at best and I very much doubt would happen.

Don gives the appearance of someone that mastered the ins and outs of early
versions and is having a problem running at speed due to the new physics of
2003.  It is always easy to assume a faster car has to be cheating but it
all typically comes down to experience and learning the sim.  Fairplay and
fun are the bottoms lines to me, to win through cheats means little and
would be an empty victory.  I hope Papyrus and the beta testers can solve
any of these issues so we have a somewhat level playing field, the reset
will depend on one honour.


> Don,
> I'm sure some info does leak, its kind of the nature of the beast, but
that
> doesn't make it right.  However I'm fairly sure much current info hasn't.
I
> assure you the beta testers know of no exploit or flaw which they can use
to
> their advantage, that you yourself could not find if you choose to spend
the
> time looking for them.  The run the same game you do, atleast for anything
> online thru the sierra servers.  So all they can possibly have is
knowledge,
> which can be useful, but is there for anyone else to learn.  The only
reason
> a beta tester may know of any of this is because they need to in order to
> test properly to make sure these problems are fixed.  You have to
understand
> the problem to make sure its fixed correctly.

> I know and have raced with most if not all of the beta team, and I do not
> think any of them would use any of these exploits in a league  ( or even a
> pick up for that matter) race.  Its pretty easy to tell when someone is
> using one of them, not just by their speeds, or lack of speed fall off,
but
> also my the attitude of the car thru the corner.  Just because someone
knows
> of an exploit doesn't mean they would use it.  Not everyone is like that.
> If you feel there is a beta tester taking advantage of something somewhere
> please show me.

> Jay



> > Jay.. your right

> > its us and them.. them racing against us....

> > We should always have an equal chance to win...

> > NDA I understand... But how about some leaks.. There are
> > non betas that have information...

> > laughable.

> > Right I have been a beta tester for 10 years just in sim racing..  I
think
> > i know what kind of informatioin goes on between a large group of
> > testers.. ie, visit www.games-advertising.com

> > Don



> > > In translation this means....  I really really want to know if the
> > exploits
> > > I've been able to take advantage of are going to be fixed, so I know
if
> > I'll
> > > still maintain my advantage.

> > > I realize your chassis dragging setups are near and dear to you, but
> > you'll
> > > just have to wait and find out like everyone else.  Besides until
> anything
> > > is final, there's no point is disccusing it since it could still
change.
> > Be
> > > a good sport, and wait like everyone else.  As for your comments about
> the
> > > beta testers, you know very well they are all covered with NDA's.
Which
> > > means if they want to remain beta testers they can not discuss what
may
> or
> > > may not be changed, tweeked, adjusted, fixed, or reworked in anyway.
> You
> > > can dislike it all you want, but its not going to change.  Besides the
> > > claims that beta testers have any tangible advantage is laughable.  I
> > guess
> > > your just worried they may know of an exploit you havn't found yet.
> Most
> > of
> > > the beta testers I know probably aren't racing in any league your a
part
> > of,
> > > so whats the problem?

> > > Jay Taylor



> > > > Beta Testers!

> > > > Seem to me it would be the fair, just and honorable thing to do to
> tell
> > us
> > > > regular racers what are the
> > > > holes in the games, and what will be fixed in the patch..  Many of
you
> > > race
> > > > with us and you have
> > > > knowledge that we dont have.  We realize you are fortunate with
> > > priviledged
> > > > information, but that
> > > > doesnt level the playing field.   I have read several posts here of
> some
> > > > phyics holes and coding
> > > > problems in the game.   Now you all have this information, but you
> > havent
> > > to
> > > > date shared it with
> > > > the regular people!   Its great to be part of a knowledge base.
Buts
> > its
> > > > not fair if you know of
> > > > problems!  Some of these problems will never be fixed and can be
> > exploited
> > > > until the end of
> > > > time..   Please consider!   Need more speed. hehe

> > > > Don Wilshe


rec.autos.simulators is a usenet newsgroup formed in December, 1993. As this group was always unmoderated there may be some spam or off topic articles included. Some links do point back to racesimcentral.net as we could not validate the original address. Please report any pages that you believe warrant deletion from this archive (include the link in your email). RaceSimCentral.net is in no way responsible and does not endorse any of the content herein.