rec.autos.simulators

--
Tim White
www.intracmotorsports.com

Nice Speech...

But I didnt say what you said.. I just said there are people that race with us that have advantages because they
are beta testers and they know of bugs and flaws in the game.   this knowledge is gained from testing and
from being part of a network of knowledge..

dW

  Don what part don't you get?

  For some reason you think there are beta testers that withheld these loopholes for advantages, and you're saying there has to be more and you want dibs on them.  Seriously think about what you're saying.  I have yet to see a Beta tester just blow away the field because of some little trick they know.  And when you say us, please do not include the honest racers out there in your little group.  As of now you are the only one jumping up and down crying for all the loopholes to be told so you can use them against people.  Seriously how old are you?

    Jay.. your right

    its us and them.. them racing against us....

    We should always have an equal chance to win...

    NDA I understand... But how about some leaks.. There are
    non betas that have information...

    laughable.

    Right I have been a beta tester for 10 years just in sim racing..  I think
    i know what kind of informatioin goes on between a large group of
    testers.. ie, visit www.games-advertising.com

    Don

    > In translation this means....  I really really want to know if the
    exploits
    > I've been able to take advantage of are going to be fixed, so I know if
    I'll
    > still maintain my advantage.
    >
    > I realize your chassis dragging setups are near and dear to you, but
    you'll
    > just have to wait and find out like everyone else.  Besides until anything
    > is final, there's no point is disccusing it since it could still change.
    Be
    > a good sport, and wait like everyone else.  As for your comments about the
    > beta testers, you know very well they are all covered with NDA's.  Which
    > means if they want to remain beta testers they can not discuss what may or
    > may not be changed, tweeked, adjusted, fixed, or reworked in anyway.  You
    > can dislike it all you want, but its not going to change.  Besides the
    > claims that beta testers have any tangible advantage is laughable.  I
    guess
    > your just worried they may know of an exploit you havn't found yet.  Most
    of
    > the beta testers I know probably aren't racing in any league your a part
    of,
    > so whats the problem?
    >
    > Jay Taylor
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >


    > > Beta Testers!
    > >
    > > Seem to me it would be the fair, just and honorable thing to do to tell
    us
    > > regular racers what are the
    > > holes in the games, and what will be fixed in the patch..  Many of you
    > race
    > > with us and you have
    > > knowledge that we dont have.  We realize you are fortunate with
    > priviledged
    > > information, but that
    > > doesnt level the playing field.   I have read several posts here of some
    > > phyics holes and coding
    > > problems in the game.   Now you all have this information, but you
    havent
    > to
    > > date shared it with
    > > the regular people!   Its great to be part of a knowledge base.   Buts
    its
    > > not fair if you know of
    > > problems!  Some of these problems will never be fixed and can be
    exploited
    > > until the end of
    > > time..   Please consider!   Need more speed. hehe
    > >
    > > Don Wilshe
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    >

<snip>

Dj vu, again, all over again...!

:-|

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- http://ymenard.cjb.net/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

dw

just looking for a game thats fair.. and if tere are any problems. let them
be
published.  that way everyone knows everything
dw

That's funny because all the testers I talked to were unaware of this flaw, so tell me what information do you have that proves otherwise?

  Nice Speech...

  But I didnt say what you said.. I just said there are people that race with us that have advantages because they
  are beta testers and they know of bugs and flaws in the game.   this knowledge is gained from testing and
  from being part of a network of knowledge..

  dW

    Don what part don't you get?

    For some reason you think there are beta testers that withheld these loopholes for advantages, and you're saying there has to be more and you want dibs on them.  Seriously think about what you're saying.  I have yet to see a Beta tester just blow away the field because of some little trick they know.  And when you say us, please do not include the honest racers out there in your little group.  As of now you are the only one jumping up and down crying for all the loopholes to be told so you can use them against people.  Seriously how old are you?

      Jay.. your right

      its us and them.. them racing against us....

      We should always have an equal chance to win...

      NDA I understand... But how about some leaks.. There are
      non betas that have information...

      laughable.

      Right I have been a beta tester for 10 years just in sim racing..  I think
      i know what kind of informatioin goes on between a large group of
      testers.. ie, visit www.games-advertising.com

      Don

      > In translation this means....  I really really want to know if the
      exploits
      > I've been able to take advantage of are going to be fixed, so I know if
      I'll
      > still maintain my advantage.
      >
      > I realize your chassis dragging setups are near and dear to you, but
      you'll
      > just have to wait and find out like everyone else.  Besides until anything
      > is final, there's no point is disccusing it since it could still change.
      Be
      > a good sport, and wait like everyone else.  As for your comments about the
      > beta testers, you know very well they are all covered with NDA's.  Which
      > means if they want to remain beta testers they can not discuss what may or
      > may not be changed, tweeked, adjusted, fixed, or reworked in anyway.  You
      > can dislike it all you want, but its not going to change.  Besides the
      > claims that beta testers have any tangible advantage is laughable.  I
      guess
      > your just worried they may know of an exploit you havn't found yet.  Most
      of
      > the beta testers I know probably aren't racing in any league your a part
      of,
      > so whats the problem?
      >
      > Jay Taylor
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >


      > > Beta Testers!
      > >
      > > Seem to me it would be the fair, just and honorable thing to do to tell
      us
      > > regular racers what are the
      > > holes in the games, and what will be fixed in the patch..  Many of you
      > race
      > > with us and you have
      > > knowledge that we dont have.  We realize you are fortunate with
      > priviledged
      > > information, but that
      > > doesnt level the playing field.   I have read several posts here of some
      > > phyics holes and coding
      > > problems in the game.   Now you all have this information, but you
      havent
      > to
      > > date shared it with
      > > the regular people!   Its great to be part of a knowledge base.   Buts
      its
      > > not fair if you know of
      > > problems!  Some of these problems will never be fixed and can be
      exploited
      > > until the end of
      > > time..   Please consider!   Need more speed. hehe
      > >
      > > Don Wilshe
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >

Then what are you trying to accomplish with this

  yep you got it.. i cant get the speed. hehe

  dw

  > I'd have to agree 100% with your comments.  I am sure that Papyrus beta
  > testers are there for the greater good and to help make such we have a
  solid
  > sim for years to come.  Covering up bugs so a few can cheat seems childish
  > at best and I very much doubt would happen.
  >
  > Don gives the appearance of someone that mastered the ins and outs of
  early
  > versions and is having a problem running at speed due to the new physics
  of
  > 2003.  It is always easy to assume a faster car has to be cheating but it
  > all typically comes down to experience and learning the sim.  Fairplay and
  > fun are the bottoms lines to me, to win through cheats means little and
  > would be an empty victory.  I hope Papyrus and the beta testers can solve
  > any of these issues so we have a somewhat level playing field, the reset
  > will depend on one honour.
  >


  > > Don,
  > > I'm sure some info does leak, its kind of the nature of the beast, but
  > that
  > > doesn't make it right.  However I'm fairly sure much current info
  hasn't.
  > I
  > > assure you the beta testers know of no exploit or flaw which they can
  use
  > to
  > > their advantage, that you yourself could not find if you choose to spend
  > the
  > > time looking for them.  The run the same game you do, atleast for
  anything
  > > online thru the sierra servers.  So all they can possibly have is
  > knowledge,
  > > which can be useful, but is there for anyone else to learn.  The only
  > reason
  > > a beta tester may know of any of this is because they need to in order
  to
  > > test properly to make sure these problems are fixed.  You have to
  > understand
  > > the problem to make sure its fixed correctly.
  > >
  > > I know and have raced with most if not all of the beta team, and I do
  not
  > > think any of them would use any of these exploits in a league  ( or even
  a
  > > pick up for that matter) race.  Its pretty easy to tell when someone is
  > > using one of them, not just by their speeds, or lack of speed fall off,
  > but
  > > also my the attitude of the car thru the corner.  Just because someone
  > knows
  > > of an exploit doesn't mean they would use it.  Not everyone is like
  that.
  > > If you feel there is a beta tester taking advantage of something
  somewhere
  > > please show me.
  > >
  > > Jay
  > >
  > >


  > > > Jay.. your right
  > > >
  > > > its us and them.. them racing against us....
  > > >
  > > > We should always have an equal chance to win...
  > > >
  > > > NDA I understand... But how about some leaks.. There are
  > > > non betas that have information...
  > > >
  > > > laughable.
  > > >
  > > > Right I have been a beta tester for 10 years just in sim racing..  I
  > think
  > > > i know what kind of informatioin goes on between a large group of
  > > > testers.. ie, visit www.games-advertising.com
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > > Don
  > > >


  > > > > In translation this means....  I really really want to know if the
  > > > exploits
  > > > > I've been able to take advantage of are going to be fixed, so I know
  > if
  > > > I'll
  > > > > still maintain my advantage.
  > > > >
  > > > > I realize your chassis dragging setups are near and dear to you, but
  > > > you'll
  > > > > just have to wait and find out like everyone else.  Besides until
  > > anything
  > > > > is final, there's no point is disccusing it since it could still
  > change.
  > > > Be
  > > > > a good sport, and wait like everyone else.  As for your comments
  about
  > > the
  > > > > beta testers, you know very well they are all covered with NDA's.
  > Which
  > > > > means if they want to remain beta testers they can not discuss what
  > may
  > > or
  > > > > may not be changed, tweeked, adjusted, fixed, or reworked in anyway.
  > > You
  > > > > can dislike it all you want, but its not going to change.  Besides
  the
  > > > > claims that beta testers have any tangible advantage is laughable.
  I
  > > > guess
  > > > > your just worried they may know of an exploit you havn't found yet.
  > > Most
  > > > of
  > > > > the beta testers I know probably aren't racing in any league your a
  > part
  > > > of,
  > > > > so whats the problem?
  > > > >
  > > > > Jay Taylor
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >


  > > > > > Beta Testers!
  > > > > >
  > > > > > Seem to me it would be the fair, just and honorable thing to do to
  > > tell
  > > > us
  > > > > > regular racers what are the
  > > > > > holes in the games, and what will be fixed in the patch..  Many of
  > you
  > > > > race
  > > > > > with us and you have
  > > > > > knowledge that we dont have.  We realize you are fortunate with
  > > > > priviledged
  > > > > > information, but that
  > > > > > doesnt level the playing field.   I have read several posts here
  of
  > > some
  > > > > > phyics holes and coding
  > > > > > problems in the game.   Now you all have this information, but you
  > > > havent
  > > > > to
  > > > > > date shared it with
  > > > > > the regular people!   Its great to be part of a knowledge base.
  > Buts
  > > > its
  > > > > > not fair if you know of
  > > > > > problems!  Some of these problems will never be fixed and can be
  > > > exploited
  > > > > > until the end of
  > > > > > time..   Please consider!   Need more speed. hehe
  > > > > >
  > > > > > Don Wilshe
  > > > > >
  > > > > >
  > > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > >
  > >
  >
  >
  >

Don have you ever used cheats in any Papyrus NASCAR game?  Testing you on this "looking for a game that's fair" when you yourself sent that email on how to exploit the game.

  we agree...
  dw

  just looking for a game thats fair.. and if tere are any problems. let them
  be
  published.  that way everyone knows everything
  dw

  > Ah the same guy that wanted websites to do pro reviews of software he was
  > promoting a few months ago.  Don, I don't understand what your up to here,
  I
  > just hope Papyrus and the beta testers can held make this an even better
  sim
  > through a patch if needed.
  >


  > > Jay.. your right
  > >
  > > its us and them.. them racing against us....
  > >
  > > We should always have an equal chance to win...
  > >
  > > NDA I understand... But how about some leaks.. There are
  > > non betas that have information...
  > >
  > > laughable.
  > >
  > > Right I have been a beta tester for 10 years just in sim racing..  I
  think
  > > i know what kind of informatioin goes on between a large group of
  > > testers.. ie, visit www.games-advertising.com
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > > Don
  > >


  > > > In translation this means....  I really really want to know if the
  > > exploits
  > > > I've been able to take advantage of are going to be fixed, so I know
  if
  > > I'll
  > > > still maintain my advantage.
  > > >
  > > > I realize your chassis dragging setups are near and dear to you, but
  > > you'll
  > > > just have to wait and find out like everyone else.  Besides until
  > anything
  > > > is final, there's no point is disccusing it since it could still
  change.
  > > Be
  > > > a good sport, and wait like everyone else.  As for your comments about
  > the
  > > > beta testers, you know very well they are all covered with NDA's.
  Which
  > > > means if they want to remain beta testers they can not discuss what
  may
  > or
  > > > may not be changed, tweeked, adjusted, fixed, or reworked in anyway.
  > You
  > > > can dislike it all you want, but its not going to change.  Besides the
  > > > claims that beta testers have any tangible advantage is laughable.  I
  > > guess
  > > > your just worried they may know of an exploit you havn't found yet.
  > Most
  > > of
  > > > the beta testers I know probably aren't racing in any league your a
  part
  > > of,
  > > > so whats the problem?
  > > >
  > > > Jay Taylor
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >


  > > > > Beta Testers!
  > > > >
  > > > > Seem to me it would be the fair, just and honorable thing to do to
  > tell
  > > us
  > > > > regular racers what are the
  > > > > holes in the games, and what will be fixed in the patch..  Many of
  you
  > > > race
  > > > > with us and you have
  > > > > knowledge that we dont have.  We realize you are fortunate with
  > > > priviledged
  > > > > information, but that
  > > > > doesnt level the playing field.   I have read several posts here of
  > some
  > > > > phyics holes and coding
  > > > > problems in the game.   Now you all have this information, but you
  > > havent
  > > > to
  > > > > date shared it with
  > > > > the regular people!   Its great to be part of a knowledge base.
  Buts
  > > its
  > > > > not fair if you know of
  > > > > problems!  Some of these problems will never be fixed and can be
  > > exploited
  > > > > until the end of
  > > > > time..   Please consider!   Need more speed. hehe
  > > > >
  > > > > Don Wilshe
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > >
  > >
  >
  >
  >

That statement in itself explains volumes as to why we need a patch.. lol

don

  That's funny because all the testers I talked to were unaware of this flaw, so tell me what information do you have that proves otherwise?

 I always look for holes in the game.  Just as if I was to build a motor and change the bore and stroke to
effect HP and Torque.    I dont have any cheats.  Send me some. lol
DW

  Don have you ever used cheats in any Papyrus NASCAR game?  Testing you on this "looking for a game that's fair" when you yourself sent that email on how to exploit the game.

Answer the question

   I always look for holes in the game.  Just as if I was to build a motor and change the bore and stroke to
  effect HP and Torque.    I dont have any cheats.  Send me some. lol
  DW

    Don have you ever used cheats in any Papyrus NASCAR game?  Testing you on this "looking for a game that's fair" when you yourself sent that email on how to exploit the game.

Don Burnette

nope never..
DW

  Answer the question

     I always look for holes in the game.  Just as if I was to build a motor and change the bore and stroke to
    effect HP and Torque.    I dont have any cheats.  Send me some. lol
    DW

      Don have you ever used cheats in any Papyrus NASCAR game?  Testing you on this "looking for a game that's fair" when you yourself sent that email on how to exploit the game.

KK: "Answer the question."
DW: "You want answers?"
KK: "I want the truth."
DW: "You can't handle the truth!"

  Answer the question

     I always look for holes in the game.  Just as if I was to build a motor and change the bore and stroke to
    effect HP and Torque.    I dont have any cheats.  Send me some. lol
    DW

      Don have you ever used cheats in any Papyrus NASCAR game?  Testing you on this "looking for a game that's fair" when you yourself sent that email on how to exploit the game.