rec.autos.simulators

NR2k3 and cheating

McWho

NR2k3 and cheating

by McWho » Sat, 22 Nov 2003 03:06:59

Well,
     It finally happened to me.  I was in an online race, Daytona night open
server.  One of the entrants was complaining about how cheating was going
on, servers were allowing it and papy could fix it but was ignoring the
problem and deleting his posts to forums.  I figured it was another person
compaining about exagerated setups and went about my race.
Of course this is an open server and I am trying to learn how to setup my
own cars so I start mid pack and *almost* avoid the first lap crash barely
clipping the last car I needed to get by :-(.
about lap 10 I get passed by this driver and another fighting for the lead,
I had been watching via F2 and had seen nothing unusual so far.  To my
amazement, just as they are approaching the tri-oval, he types "bye" and I
WATCHED him accelerate and leave the car he had been racing with.  F2 showed
the gap growing in tenths as if seconds were ticking on a clock, it was
amazing!
Well, he pulls into the pits continueing with his diatribe about cheating
going on and there is the proof.  I have to agree.  I saved the race,
reviewed it and indeed I saw a top speed for him of 215 mph running by
himself.  Watching from far chase you can hear him hit the accelerator, it
was like he was just cruising along at 188 racing with this other car and
when he put the pedal down he was gone.......
    I am starting to get good enough on the big tracks to qual well and have
a lot of fun racing other competent drivers.  I even finished second once.
I would like to get good enough to be able to win.  If I were to find myself
in that position and see the guy I was racing make a move like that it would
sure***me off.  Anyone know what this cheat is or why it still works post
patch?  What the hell?  I mean, this won't stop me racing but sure does seem
wrong if it is a code cheat. could it be prevented by Papy/Sierra if they
wanted?  Is it the game or the multiplayer code?

Sean

TDRacin

NR2k3 and cheating

by TDRacin » Sat, 22 Nov 2003 08:02:22

replay?


McWho

NR2k3 and cheating

by McWho » Sat, 22 Nov 2003 12:19:17

Yep, full replay and chat log.  Was looking at the core.ini file and the
replay telemetry was set to 0, I don't think I have much information wise.
I did change two telemetry settings to 1, is that the right thing to do to
be able to see more technical information from a replay?
Replay is 49 MB raw, anyone know where I could post a file that size I don't
have a problem with it, if there is a smaller space I could easily edit it
down the the three relevent laps.
Probably what I am most interested in is, who would be interested to see
information of this type that could actually do something about it.  I don't
know what this person was talking about, that is to say I have not seen a
lot of this going on.  But, since I do have a demonstration of it recorded,
well I think I will hold onto it  :-)
Can anyone clue me into just what is happening?  I would think this is not
an issue in any organized league and when it gets right down to it, who the
hell cares if the winner of an open race cheated.  Really, in my experience
I consider myself lucky if I am not taken out by a newbie or wrecker, or
just plain racing.  My main goal in an open race is to complete it  *grin*!!

Sean

Dave Henri

NR2k3 and cheating

by Dave Henri » Sat, 22 Nov 2003 12:43:58

"McWhom" I would think this is

  215mph sounds like the restrictor plate was removed.  
dh

McWho

NR2k3 and cheating

by McWho » Sat, 22 Nov 2003 13:04:34


> "McWhom" I would think this is
>> not an issue in any organized league and when it gets right down to
>> it, who the hell cares if the winner of an open race cheated.
>> Really, in my experience I consider myself lucky if I am not taken
>> out by a newbie or wrecker, or just plain racing.  My main goal in
>> an open race is to complete it  *grin*!!

>> Sean

>   215mph sounds like the restrictor plate was removed.
> dh

Can you do that in your local config file?  I guess since I see servers that
have plates and servers that do not, that it was a server setting and not a
local one??  This just bugs me, guess I just want to understand it.  My
problem is I don't mess with game files enough, I understand it can be done
but just don't muck around in the files much.  Heh, I have enough trouble
getting good at the game, let alone trying to learn how to manipulate the
game.

Sean

Pete

NR2k3 and cheating

by Pete » Sat, 22 Nov 2003 13:23:29

    I would say that someone has cracked the 32 bit encryption.
They then edit the HP numbers and alter the check sums to
re-balance the file. This was done in previous versions of the game.

    Pete


Eric Leblan

NR2k3 and cheating

by Eric Leblan » Sat, 22 Nov 2003 21:29:59

Yes and can be easily done. but would failed to log on sierra.

Replay?

Eric Leblanc
www.projectwildfire.com


>     I would say that someone has cracked the 32 bit encryption.
> They then edit the HP numbers and alter the check sums to
> re-balance the file. This was done in previous versions of the game.

>     Pete



> > "McWhom" I would think this is
> > > not an issue in any organized league and when it gets right down to
> > > it, who the hell cares if the winner of an open race cheated.  Really,
> > > in my experience I consider myself lucky if I am not taken out by a
> > > newbie or wrecker, or just plain racing.  My main goal in an open race
> > > is to complete it  *grin*!!

> > > Sean

> >   215mph sounds like the restrictor plate was removed.
> > dh

Pete

NR2k3 and cheating

by Pete » Sat, 22 Nov 2003 22:13:22

    Well I would have to say with N2003 that I don't know it
for fact but for previous versions I do know it for a fact.
    Dat files were altered and the checksums matched and
they did play online. The HP and traction were altered. It was
mainly used at Daytona and Dega.
    I screamed loud and hard at the time but people didn't listen.
It started in Nascar 1 and was being used right up until N2002.
    You altered your encryption with N2003 so I don't know whether
it was hacked or not. But I'm assuming it has been.

    Pete


McWho

NR2k3 and cheating

by McWho » Sun, 23 Nov 2003 00:04:51


> Yes and can be easily done. but would failed to log on sierra.

> Replay?

> Eric Leblanc
> www.projectwildfire.com

I am not having much luck posting the replay.  I edited it down to a few
laps and just over 3mb but getting an error trying to attatch it to a post
in alt binaries simulators autos, says it is too big even at that size.  If
anyone knows of a good free or trial program that would separate it into
parts or has a forum I could post it to I will.
Below is the text log from the race.  I did some pretty heavy editing but
tried to keep the flow so it is fairly long. I left the server identifiers
in here, I believe between this log and the replay I do in fact have proof
that cheating is possible in this version of the game.
I would like to state that I am more interesting in providing this to
someone who may be able to do something with it than anything.  I don't plan
on going on any kind of personal campaign myself.  I was there, I saw it, I
saved the evidence.   :-)

Legend:
. = someone connected
( = unrelated comments
comments with no identifier = me :-)
The first few lines of comments do not have any identifier to them but they
were on my chat screen in the race.

Attempting to join server: jolt.co.uk SS1
no 28, no site
jolt online ***:Connected.

guess not just braggin about it huh?
i witnessed it running a few minutes ago thats proof enough for me
youll nly here about it by being sumbod's good buddy

that's wrong
.
I bught this CD just to run it and show whats being done

Dxx Jxxxx:Connected.
(Dxx Jxx#32) but not tell how,
(xxxxxx#19) hosts are doing it
.
.
(Dxx Jxxx#32) people need to get pizzed off about this
(Dxx Jxxx#32) yes 19
.
.
(Dxx Jxxx#32) go post on the forums that you want it fixed, and guess what
(xxx#17) oh yea,,,ran an entire season in the league getting lapped at times
.
(Dxx Jxxx#32) they will delete it faster than you know
Exiting pit.
.
(xxx#19) how long have you had the game 32?
(xxx#40) so is it a modification editing somewhere  a text file
(xxx#17) and running good lap times myself
(xxx#40) tell us that much
(Dxx Jxxx#32) intstead of fixin the problem, theyd rather shut up the people
thatw ant it fix
.
(Dxx Jxxx#32) been racing  Papy for 8 years now
(xxx#28) i can assure u im going to papy and post
(Dxx Jxxx#32) had this game since the day it came out
(Dxx Jxxx#32) I am a well known racer
(Dxx Jxxx#32) you have probably heard of me many times before
(xxx#19) thought you bought it to expose the cheat?
(
(Dxx Jxxx#32) just sick and tired of the cheats
(Dxx Jxxx#32) papy can fix it
(xxx#17) amen
(Dxx Jxxx#32) EA has no problems like this now
(Dxx Jxxx#32) they fixed em all
(xxx#28) im with u 32..i hate cheaters
.
(Dxx Jxxx#32) and so can Papy
.
(Dxx Jxxx#32) but YOU have to demand it
(xxx#19) papyrus going under i believe
(
 manually disconnected.
(
 manually disconnected.
 manually disconnected.
(xxx#28) wasn't this game bought out by someone else?
(Dxx Jxxx#32) watch me, I'll run a "what seems like legit" pole speed
.
(Dxx Jxxx#32) then race like normal if I want
(Dxx Jxxx#32) watch
(xxx#17) thx for the info dxx. gotta go..keep up the fight!!!!
.
.
 manually disconnected.
(xxx#19) not sure 28 but i read that this game wil be papyrus last one
(
 manually disconnected.
.
(Dxx Jxxx#32) people are gonna be racing n2003 for a LONG time!
(Dxx Jxxx#32) its all we got now, so FIX THIS CRAP!
.
(
.
.
(xxx#28) hey dxx..u posting on papy website or somewhere else
(xxx#28) about this ***
 manually disconnected.
(xxx#19) you are right 32 until a software team develops a more accurate sim
(Dxx Jxxx#32) they just keep deleting my posts
(
(
(xxx#128) dxx jxxx, after 8 yrs still on 56k?
(Dxx Jxxx#32) lol
.
(xxx#128) :)
manually disconnected.
(Dxx Jxxx#32) not sayin a wrod
(xxx#128) haha
(Don Jone#32) or w word either
.
.
(Dxx Jxxx#32) a
 manually disconnected.
.
(Dxx Jxxx#32) dam my fingers are hurtin
(xxx#28) lol
(xxx#128) whatya do with em?
(Dxx Jxxx#32) watch....
.
(Dxx Jxxx#32) ill make it look legit
.
.
(xxx#128) please dont
(Dxx Jxxx#32) to show ya
(
(xxx#19) 32...wut forum should we post to ?
 manually disconnected.
.
(xxx#111) what ya need posted
.
.
(xxx#19) Wanted...Dead or Alive
(xxx#19) LOL
(xxx#111) yep
(xxx#19) Thanks for youre info 32
.
 manually disconnected.
.
(Dxx Jxxx#32) and YES that pole speed was w the "problem" on
(Dxx Jxxx#32) see how it looks legit?
(xxx#128) haha
(Dxx Jxxx#32) just gotta be smooth w it
(Dxx Jxxx#32) and then when ya need to go.........
(Dxx Jxxx#32) you can
(
:Receive throughput fell to unacceptable level.
.
(xxx#111) dam you guys still doin THAT
(
 manually disconnected.
.
(xxx#35) with what "problem" on
(
(
Good Luck All :-)
(Dxx Jxxx#32) ok, watch
(
(
(
(xxx#128) dont wreck ppl, 32 :)
(xxx#111) outta here. seen THAT too many races
(Dxx Jxxx#32) k

<<<RACING>>>>>

(Dxx Jxxx#32) bye   -------<this is where he took off>
(xxx#128) ???
 manually disconnected.
(xxx#3) you need a cheat
(xxx#3) you cant race
(
(
(xxx#155) haha lead 220 mph hahaha
 manually disconnected.
how
(Dxx Jxxx#32) ok, yall get the point
(xxx#128) somewhat
(Dxx Jxxx#32) you can make it look legit
(xxx#155) superfuel?
(Dxx Jxxx#32) pulled off track now
(Dxx Jxxx#32) and retired
(xxx#3) good
(xxx#3) u need to
how?
(xxx#191) why 32
(Dxx Jxxx#32) There is a "problem" that needs to be fixed
(Dxx Jxxx#32) sry about the hit 3
(xxx#191) what
(Dxx Jxxx#32) Its something many are doing to cheat
(Dxx Jxxx#32) complain about it and theyll fix it
(Dxx Jxxx#32) but ppl need to complain
(xxx#191) what is that
(xxx#128) geez, i stopped playing quake cos of cheats
(Dxx Jxxx#32) not telling
(xxx#128) u tellin me ppl cheat here too?
(Dxx Jxxx#32) how to so it, so stop asking
basic
(Dxx Jxxx#32) how to do it
(
(
The server will leave the track in one minute.
 manually disconnected.
(
(Dxx Jxxx#32) cyall, pls complain and post it on the forums
(xxx#155) car 32 fly
.
is 9it setup or code?
(xxx#128) thx
manually disconnected.
Dxxx Jxxx:Client has manually disconnected.
 manually disconnected.
Replay saved.
 manually disconnected.
 manually disconnected.
(
(xxx#327) complain about wut
 manually disconnected.
 manually disconnected.
(.
 manually disconnected.
Waiting for device to disconnect.
Closing network device.
Channel closed.
--------> 2003/11/20-13:29:23

Larr

NR2k3 and cheating

by Larr » Sun, 23 Nov 2003 03:45:38

Well, I haven't followed this enough to know for sure, but pre-patch I
experienced a similar, but different, incident.

It was a SS race (don't remember if it was Dega or Tona), and the race was
long enough to demand a pit stop for fuel.  Every single person that tried
to finish without pitting ran out of gas 2 laps short, except one guy.

He finished the race, won by a huge margin, and continued to drive around
after the race was over.

There isn't enough drafting in the world to make up for those two laps, and
I'm not even sure that's modeled in the SIM to begin with.

It was a fishy scenario, for sure.

Larry


Larr

NR2k3 and cheating

by Larr » Sun, 23 Nov 2003 03:47:13

Yes, but it applies to everyone in the race.  Restrictor plate is _supposed_
to be host-controlled.

-Larry



> > "McWhom" I would think this is
> >> not an issue in any organized league and when it gets right down to
> >> it, who the hell cares if the winner of an open race cheated.
> >> Really, in my experience I consider myself lucky if I am not taken
> >> out by a newbie or wrecker, or just plain racing.  My main goal in
> >> an open race is to complete it  *grin*!!

> >> Sean

> >   215mph sounds like the restrictor plate was removed.
> > dh

> Can you do that in your local config file?  I guess since I see servers
that
> have plates and servers that do not, that it was a server setting and not
a
> local one??  This just bugs me, guess I just want to understand it.  My
> problem is I don't mess with game files enough, I understand it can be
done
> but just don't muck around in the files much.  Heh, I have enough trouble
> getting good at the game, let alone trying to learn how to manipulate the
> game.

> Sean

McWho

NR2k3 and cheating

by McWho » Sun, 23 Nov 2003 04:10:36


> Well, I haven't followed this enough to know for sure, but pre-patch I
> experienced a similar, but different, incident.

> It was a SS race (don't remember if it was Dega or Tona), and the
> race was long enough to demand a pit stop for fuel.  Every single
> person that tried to finish without pitting ran out of gas 2 laps
> short, except one guy.

> He finished the race, won by a huge margin, and continued to drive
> around after the race was over.

> There isn't enough drafting in the world to make up for those two
> laps, and I'm not even sure that's modeled in the SIM to begin with.

> It was a fishy scenario, for sure.

> Larry

I have seen that on more than one occassion, pre and post patch, SS races
with built in pit stops and at least one car would not pit.  I never had any
proof or watched closely enough but I would get lapped pitting and never get
it back even though I made a good quick stop with no tires.   Fishy, very
fishy  :-)
Never felt the need to bring it up, it just is not that big a deal to my
ego. Personally I feel that if the person doing that feels better having won
in that fashion then more power to him.  It certainly does not affect my
ego, I am happy to not crash, make a good fast pit stop and race my best
race.  Hell this game is fun, not life and death, or even money.
In this current situation, the person doing this made a big point of it and
I happen to have it recorded, figured it would make an interesting thread if
nothing else.  I am somewhat surprised to only see mild interest in seeing a
replay and not much discussion.  To me that is saying that the serious
racers are happily racing in their leagues and this is not a problem there.

Sean

John DiFoo

NR2k3 and cheating

by John DiFoo » Sun, 23 Nov 2003 06:13:17

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 14:10:36 -0500, "McWhom"


>In this current situation, the person doing this made a big point of it and
>I happen to have it recorded, figured it would make an interesting thread if
>nothing else.  I am somewhat surprised to only see mild interest in seeing a
>replay and not much discussion.  To me that is saying that the serious
>racers are happily racing in their leagues and this is not a problem there.

>Sean

I mostly race roadies in TA mode: anyone seen any suspicious
stuff there?  [I haven't]  It might be hard in that environment to
tell a honest alien from a cheating essobee without careful
scrutiny...

         John DiFool

jason moy

NR2k3 and cheating

by jason moy » Sun, 23 Nov 2003 07:19:43

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:04:51 -0500, "McWhom"


>I am not having much luck posting the replay.  I edited it down to a few
>laps and just over 3mb but getting an error trying to attatch it to a post
>in alt binaries simulators autos, says it is too big even at that size.  If
>anyone knows of a good free or trial program that would separate it into
>parts or has a forum I could post it to I will.

If you can email it to me, I'll throw it up on the web.

Jason

Goy Larse

NR2k3 and cheating

by Goy Larse » Sun, 23 Nov 2003 07:30:02


> I am not having much luck posting the replay.  I edited it down to a few
> laps and just over 3mb but getting an error trying to attatch it to a post
> in alt binaries simulators autos, says it is too big even at that size.  If
> anyone knows of a good free or trial program that would separate it into
> parts or has a forum I could post it to I will.

OutlookExpress ? :-)

Tools-Account-News-Properties-Advanced-Posting

Check the box "break apart messages larger than xxx kb" and set it to
whatever the news server will accept, 350 kb is known to work on that
NG, at least with my free account with Teranews

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
"goyl at nettx dot no"

http://www.theuspits.com

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
--Groucho Marx--


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