rec.autos.simulators

by **McWho** » Sun, 23 Nov 2003 07:51:51

>.

> OutlookExpress ? :-)

> Tools-Account-News-Properties-Advanced-Posting

> Check the box "break apart messages larger than xxx kb" and set it to
> whatever the news server will accept, 350 kb is known to work on that
> NG, at least with my free account with Teranews

> Beers and cheers
> (uncle) Goy
> "goyl at nettx dot no"

> http://www.racesimcentral.net/

> "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
> --Groucho Marx--

Doh! :-( And to think I used to tell others how to use this program, man I
am getting rusty. Well, as long as I already look stupid, how to hell do
you get OE to put those files back together to view them?
In any case. alt.binaries.simulators.autos , that is where you will find
14 posts containing the relevant part of the replay, make sure you are
checking the 32 car. Of course if you want to check out my sweet Broncos
car ( Painted by John Simmons, thanks again) by all means watch me in the 12
:-)

Sean

by **Goy Larse** » Sun, 23 Nov 2003 08:02:35

> Doh! :-( And to think I used to tell others how to use this program, man I
> am getting rusty. Well, as long as I already look stupid, how to hell do
> you get OE to put those files back together to view them?
> In any case. alt.binaries.simulators.autos , that is where you will find
> 14 posts containing the relevant part of the replay, make sure you are
> checking the 32 car. Of course if you want to check out my sweet Broncos
> car ( Painted by John Simmons, thanks again) by all means watch me in the 12
> :-)

Aah, but now you're asking something I've only done a couple of times as
I don't DL stuff from usenet, I only used the posting option in an
effort to support Herr von Henrie in his efforts to disrupt the people
who post warez to OUR binaries NG

However, if my memory isn't totally failing me here, I believe you just
mark all the messages your post consists of, and then use the "DL and
something" option you find when you right click on the messages......bit
sketchy on that bit, sorry

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
"goyl at nettx dot no"

http://www.theuspits.com

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
--Groucho Marx--

by **jason moy** » Sun, 23 Nov 2003 12:49:26

As promised (thanks for the email Sean):

http://firebrand11.stargate.net/N2003/fastclip.rpy

Watch the #32 car for a bit.

Jason

by **Joachim Trens** » Sun, 23 Nov 2003 19:02:13

...

The problem probably isn't that you coulnd't introduce more complex
sanity checks, but that if you did that users or hosts with slower
connections or not that powerful machines would get into trouble, due to
the amount of data being exchanged, and the depth and/or frequency of
the examinations carried out.

IMO the current sanity checks are probably a compromise between
desirable data integrity, and user/customer friendliness.

OTOH, I'd wish all the work that went into apparently only moderately
successful copy protection schemes (see Larry's posting on creating an
ISO and using it with Daemon Tools) would have gone into developing
measures to aggravate the hacking of the data locally. That could have
made the hacking a lot more difficult.

Achim

by **Neil Cannin** » Sun, 23 Nov 2003 23:38:41

Looks to me like some kind of restrictor plate hack.

Neil

> >If you can email it to me, I'll throw it up on the web.

> As promised (thanks for the email Sean):

> http://firebrand11.stargate.net/N2003/fastclip.rpy

> Watch the #32 car for a bit.

> Jason

by **Haqsa** » Mon, 24 Nov 2003 00:56:52

"Combine and Decode"

by **Larr** » Mon, 24 Nov 2003 04:18:27

Cool. Thanks!

-Larry

> >If you can email it to me, I'll throw it up on the web.

> As promised (thanks for the email Sean):

> http://firebrand11.stargate.net/N2003/fastclip.rpy

> Watch the #32 car for a bit.

> Jason

by **Larr** » Mon, 24 Nov 2003 04:21:37

It seems to me the cure for this is easy...

The INI files for the tracks are really quite tiny text files.

What should happen is this:

1. The SERVER encrypts the INI files for the track. The encryption would
be different each race.
2. As each player logs on, they are first sent the encrypted track file to
use.

Yes, it would add a _small_ delay, but these are really small files. I
really don't think it would take that long, even for dial-up users.

By changing the encryption each race, there is no possible way anyone on the
receiving end could do anything to alter the file in time, and by changing
the encryption each time there would be no way of working it out offline.

Just an idea that will never be implemented :)

-Larry

> On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 14:10:36 -0500, "McWhom"

> >In this current situation, the person doing this made a big point of it
and
> >I happen to have it recorded, figured it would make an interesting thread
if
> >nothing else. I am somewhat surprised to only see mild interest in
seeing a
> >replay and not much discussion. To me that is saying that the serious
> >racers are happily racing in their leagues and this is not a problem
there.

> I race in a league but I run a lot of pickup races too. I'm surprised
> too there aren't more people taking notice, but IMHO as much as it
> sucks this type of cheating is inevitable. Unless the physics are
> controlled by the server there just isn't a way to stop someone with a
> de*** from (eventually) breaking into it, is there?

by **SPEE** » Mon, 24 Nov 2003 05:50:47

I'm so glad to see I'm not the only one who took notice of this.. I posted a
message a while back about this very same issue and I was flamed and called
a bad driver and a rookie and so forth..

by **McWho** » Mon, 24 Nov 2003 06:45:40

> I'm so glad to see I'm not the only one who took notice of this.. I
> posted a message a while back about this very same issue and I was
> flamed and called a bad driver and a rookie and so forth..

Yeah, I have been following this group and threads like this for a while. I
had seen almost all conversations get to the point that the complainant is
accused of sour grapes, poor driving, or worse. It is a shame, and also why
I have taken pains to point out that I don't feel I have been cheated out of
a win. I was aware of the issues and ended up in the right place at the
right time. I had the opportunity to get the proof that is so often asked
for and I took it. Then brought that here to this NG to see what would
happen.
It is interesting, now I am just curious if anyone "in charge" cares or is
willing to do anything to try and prevent this. To add to that, I think
that if this hole is plugged another will, or already has been found.
Hell, I don't even really know, I just had this thrown in my face basically
and knowing it was a bone of contention for many I put it here.

Sean

by **Eldre** » Mon, 24 Nov 2003 11:00:51

>Replay is 49 MB raw, anyone know where I could post a file that size I don't
>have a problem with it, if there is a smaller space I could easily edit it
>down the the three relevent laps.

Drop me an e-mail if you still need a host, Sean...

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
Member
Screamers Racing League
IICC League
GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38
ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77
Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress
N2k3 rank:in progress

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by **Eldre** » Mon, 24 Nov 2003 11:00:51

>Well, I haven't followed this enough to know for sure, but pre-patch I
>experienced a similar, but different, incident.

>It was a SS race (don't remember if it was Dega or Tona), and the race was
>long enough to demand a pit stop for fuel. Every single person that tried
>to finish without pitting ran out of gas 2 laps short, except one guy.

>He finished the race, won by a huge margin, and continued to drive around
>after the race was over.

>There isn't enough drafting in the world to make up for those two laps, and
>I'm not even sure that's modeled in the SIM to begin with.

I'll give you a possible explanation for fuel scenarios. The person driving
wasn't that fast, or he's running a lower gear ratio than everyone else. You
didn't say if it was a fixed setup. My 'proof'? I've run several full length
races in GPL(both online and offline), and never had a problem with fuel. It
wasn't until I started racing in the Masters of GPL league that I even knew
there WAS a fuel problem on some cars. If I ran 46 gallons, I'd still have 5
or more gallons left. Apparently, the faster guys could not finish a full race
on the 46 gallons allowed. So, we had to run intermediate races, with shift-r
allowed. There were several races where my Ferrari teammates had to stop for
fuel, but I could run flag to flag. If those had been strict GP races, I might
have won more than one...<g>
In a SS N2K3, a slower driver/car can stay with the pack because of the
draft(trust me), and possibly save enough fuel to finish without a stop. I
recall running a long Atlanta race in N2002 where I came *that* close to
winning on fuel mileage. I fell short by about one lap. Either everyone else
had to stop, and I almost didn't, or everyone needed two stops, and I almost
did it with one. I'm sure if I had, people would have accused *me* of
cheating, when I wouldn't have the first clue how to do so...

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
Member
Screamers Racing League
IICC League
GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38
ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77
Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress
N2k3 rank:in progress

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by **McWho** » Mon, 24 Nov 2003 11:16:30

>> Replay is 49 MB raw, anyone know where I could post a file that size
>> I don't have a problem with it, if there is a smaller space I could
>> easily edit it down the the three relevent laps.

> Drop me an e-mail if you still need a host, Sean...

> Eldred

Thanks Eldred :) The relevant laps are up thanks to Jason Moyer. If there
is any interest in the whole replay and you are willing to host it I can
upload it no problems, though up on this crappy cable connection is probably
only 128.

Sean

by **Mike Grand** » Mon, 24 Nov 2003 11:24:22

I watched the replay, he was obviously cheating since he was turning 7400
rpm's. Since he was the only one it was not server induced. Not sure if he
was running unrestricted but his rev limiter was not working and he should
have blown up after a couple laps.

> >> Replay is 49 MB raw, anyone know where I could post a file that size
> >> I don't have a problem with it, if there is a smaller space I could
> >> easily edit it down the the three relevent laps.

> > Drop me an e-mail if you still need a host, Sean...

> > Eldred

> Thanks Eldred :) The relevant laps are up thanks to Jason Moyer. If
there
> is any interest in the whole replay and you are willing to host it I can
> upload it no problems, though up on this crappy cable connection is
probably
> only 128.

> Sean

by **jason moy** » Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:03:19

Copy protection schemes don't take any time to develop by the game
designers. They're third-party products.

Not that I approve of them.

Jason

rec.autos.simulators

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NR2k3 and cheating

NR2k3 and cheating

NR2k3 and cheating

NR2k3 and cheating

NR2k3 and cheating

NR2k3 and cheating

NR2k3 and cheating

NR2k3 and cheating

NR2k3 and cheating

NR2k3 and cheating

NR2k3 and cheating

NR2k3 and cheating