rec.autos.simulators

This means we will most likely be seeing a new sim based on the Indy
Racing League in the near future (and hopefully it will include the
Indy 500, as well as the rest of the series).  GT Interactive
currently produces two racing titles:  Powerslide and Snowmobile
Racing, I believe.  I have no experience with either of these titles
-- I believe they may tend towards arcade-type driving action, but I
have heard some good things about Powerslide.  Does anybody have any
experience with either of these games?  I'm interested in knowing just
what GT Interactive is capable of producing.  

Cavedog Entertainment, a subsidiary of GT Interactive, is responsible
for producing such games as Unreal and Klingon Honor Guard.  These are
first-person shooters (similar to Quake, Doom, etc.) and they have met
with much success and acclaim in the marketplace.  Hopefully GT
Interactive will be able to bring similar success to an IRL sim.
After the disappointment of ABC Indy Racing with all its shortcomings,
it would be nice to see the Indy Racing League be associated with a
sim that was more along the lines of GPL or Viper Racing, rather than
a Johnny Herbert GP or a Microsoft CART Precision Racing competitor.  
(Note that I do not mean to speak ill of JHGP or MSCPR -- these are
simply sims that haven't caught my interest like GPL and Viper Racing
have, so this only reflects my own personal taste, and is not meant as

an affront to any fans of these sims.)  

Anybody else have any thoughts on what GT Interactive is capable of,
or of what they need to do to make any upcoming IRL sims a success?

-- John Bodin,
   Publisher, The IRL Insider Magazine On-Line
   http://www.racesimcentral.net/

-_Dave

-- JB

Philster

No I agree with him.

GT Interactive made an error by paying for the rights of IRL and The
Brickyard simply because I can't see 1) a casual gamer and 2) a hard-core
simracer go buy a  IRL Racing game in a store with all the great choice of
titles on the market.

Even with a great game engine, it doesn't really have a market (Im not
saying it will be bad).

-= Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank>
-= NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/
-= SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/
-= Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
-= May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Thanks for your juvenile response -- please let us all know what your
favorite race series is so we can engage in equally offensive -- and
equally immature -- heckling.  Of course, there's always the risk that
you will be afforded respect for your own preference, but given your
tone, attitide, and the amount of respect seem to be able to muster up
for others, that may be a bit much for you to expect.  

I have to quit typing now -- I find it uncomfortable to reach the
keyboard while stooping to your level . . .

-- John Bodin
   Publisher, The IRL Insider Magazine On-Line
   http://irlinsider.adnetweb.com/

Chris

But if it's a good SIM, I'd certainly check it out despite my greater
preference for CART and NASCAR (and of course, the best SIM of all time,
GPL).

-_Dave

Well that's a point. But the same thing happens in every type of racing
event.  At Montreal for the Formula 1 Grand Prix there was a store selling
(in a tent) about a dozen racing titles, + some hardware, etc..  Everybody
was buying them F1RS and Gp2.

Or do you know that Papyrus had a booth installed at the Mall accross the
Daytona track ? As you said, "IRL Fans".  They aren't that much, and
seriously gamers form a much bigger market than them.  Good if they sold
1000units during the weekend, but a successfull title needs at least
100times more.

Prestige of the Indy500 ? Ah yeah I forgot there is still a little :)

Not that I dislike IRL, but I seriously say there is no market for that if
they think of making it a good seller.  Especially with the small # of
tracks and unknown drivers to the gamer market.

-= Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank>
-= NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/
-= SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/
-= Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
-= May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

    THAT's why I bought the original Indy 500: the Simulation.  MAN what a
rush that was!!  I had 3 guys working for me in the Navy that all got into
it, too (when you're on the water for 3 straight months you gotta do
SOMEthin').  We'd each run 10-15 laps and see who could do the best.

"Gunner"

As far as the other IRL game I mentioned, have you actually played it? i
bought it, and it was a sorry excuse for a sim. Graphic were good, but
gameplay was a bit lacking. If the next game based on IRL from GT
interactive is great, then hurray for the fans... But fan of IRL, I'm
not and won't by the game. Maybe I should have put it that way in my
first post... maybe sarcasm can't be understood by people anymore... as
for being offensive, if you notice my previous post, I did not use any
"f" words or insults... I just stated the reality (well, are the
grandstands half empty or not?).

Feel free to e-mail me directly if you want, I always like a good debate
;)

Philster

Oh I wasn't saying anything against the IRL (who even if I don't watch often
because of some TG decisions), I do had a blast watching them at Texas and
C***te.  After watching those quad-ovals I really can see how great oval
open-wheel drivers some of them were (and after doing the same in Icr2 with
N2 tracks).  If it has a great game engine, it will do IMHO the same as GPL.

Even if the sim could be great, another time I don't see a market for this
title (alot of reasons, from both the unpopularity of IRL with the mass
racing fans, many drivers who are unknown and the small number of tracks).
But it could be nice to race ovals with a good game engine over the Internet
;)))

-= Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank>
-= NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.racesimcentral.net/
-= SimRacing Online http://www.racesimcentral.net/
-= Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
-= May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Still, I don't understand what you find so offensive in what I said. I
just stated my opinion. I explain why I don't like the IRL that much and
why I'm not interested in a sim based on that series... I didn't think
that many people would look forward to that game. It appears I was
wrong. But, I don't think my remark can be judged as offensive. Maybe be
you are "delicate"*.

Philster

*sorry if my choice of word is bad, english is not main language.

I feel like I owe you an apology for being over-sensitive.  As a
strong supporter of the IRL, I get very defensive when someone takes a
negative stand against the IRL.  

As an IRL supporter, I feel I also owe you an apology for the opinions
of a few fans who have given you the impression that the IRL is an
exclusive All-American, anti-foreigner racing league.  Nothing could
be further from the truth.  Tony George formed the IRL in an effort to
build an open-wheel all-oval series that would give oval track racers
(a group that primarily consists of American dirt-track racers)
another career choice besides NASCAR.  The American oval track racing
tradition can trace its roots back to the 1911 Indianapolis 500 --
there were earlier U.S. oval track races, but Indy has the longest
history and has earned the title of "The Greatest Spectacle in Racing"
thanks to its long and rich history.  

The IRL was intended to be an affordable open-wheel all-oval series.
Consider that: F1 is all about big money and high technology on road
and street courses; NASCAR is about sedan-type cars in primarily an
oval track environment; CART is about high-technology open wheel cars
racing in the best of both worlds -- ovals, street courses, and road
courses.  With the IRL, Tony George wanted to recapture the early
heritage of Indy-style racing by forming an all-oval open-wheel racing
series.  If there is room enough in the racing community -- and in the
hearts of fans everywhere -- for NASCAR, F1, and CART, then surely
there is room for a race series that embodies the IRL's
similar-yet-unique formula (similar hardware to CART, with a racing
series similar to NASCAR).

The first Indy 500 in 1911 included many of the best drivers from ALL
OVER THE WORLD.  Similarly, with the inclusion of drivers like Kenny
Brack, Roberto Guerrero, Stephan Gregoire, Eddie Cheever, and Arie
Luyendyk, the IRL also includes many of the best drivers from all over
the world as well.  The IRL is about an affordable open-wheel all-oval
racing series that offers opportunities to U.S.-based oval track
drivers as well as drivers from other disciplines from all over the
world.  I understand that there are a handful of IRL fans who take an
openly hostile pro-American stand when it comes to their choice of
drivers in the IRL, but I assure you that these fans do not represent
ALL IRL fans.  

Remember that Kenny Brack's championship came with him driving for
A.J. Foyt, who is arguably the most All-American driver ever (he's
competed in F1, NASCAR, the Indianapolis 500, and CART).  This alone
should be proof enough for you and for everybody else that IRL is
willing to embrace the best drivers available, regardless of their
nationality. I, personally, was GLAD to see Kenny Brack win the
championship -- he definitely earned it through superior driving
skill, just as Eddie Cheever (a non-American born driver who was born
in Italy, I believe) earned his victory at Indy.

As for myself, I just finished writing a column for a major magazine
(not my own Web-based publication, but an actual print magazine)
DEFENDING one IRL team's choice of a former CART competitor as their
primary driver for the 1999 season.  This article will be appearing in
March, and I will provide further details after the magazine's actual
publication date.  This should illustrate that I try not to let my
passion for the IRL cloud my judgement -- I do admit that it does at
times make me a bit too defensive, and for that I apologize.

I encourage you to give the IRL a chance, and to not let the negative,
potentially offensive viewpoints of a few opinionated fans -- or even
the media -- affect your ability to judge the IRL on its own merits.
There is some very good racing going on in the IRL; if you do not
prefer oval-style racing, then the IRL is obviously not going to
appeal to you, but that doesn't mean that the IRL is a "bad" series.  

I personally find that I enjoy oval track most of all, and I also
enjoy road courses to a certain degree, but street courses do not
really appeal to me.  For me, though, this does not mean that F1 and
CART have nothing to offer, or that they are racing series with no
merit -- it simply means that I may not enjoy all the events on their
schedule, but that doesn't mean that I have to speak out negatively
against the series in general.  Some people really enjoy street
courses, and that's fine with me -- I will not attack their
preferences simply because they enjoy something that I do not find
particularly enjoyable.  

Again, I apologize for misinterpreting your message as a personal
attack -- I was definitely over-sensitive, and for that I beg your
forgiveness.  I also encourage you to try to view the IRL in a little
bit different light -- you may not personally like oval track racing,
but that does not necessarily mean that the IRL is without merits.  

Regardless of what your favorite race series is, I wish you a safe,
happy, and enjoyable season in 1999.  

Take care!

-- John Bodin
   Publisher, The IRL Insider Magazine On-Line
   http://irlinsider.adnetweb.com

P.S.  I have actually played the ABC Indy Racing sim, and I'm a big
supporter of it.  It's not the most realistic game ever, but it does
have some merits.  I've also developed several car setups as well as a
steering modification utility that greatly enhances the playability of
the game -- check it out at my ABC Indy Racing Sim Support Site:

http://irlinsider.adnetweb.com/abcindyracing/

Enjoy!