Archive rec.autos.simulators

1.30 @ monza

Uncle Feste

1.30 @ monza

by Uncle Feste » Sat, 16 Jun 2001 05:17:03




> >I don't get this, can someone please explain.  To me, having a deadzone
> >should 'prevent' a wandering car because it gives you more play on your
> >steering wheel before it moves far enough to go off straight.  Therefore
> >you can keep the onscreen wheels straight easier whereas, with no
> >deadzone, I would imagine it to very difficult to keep the wheels
> >completely straight causing the car to wander.

> I used to think the same way as you - that's why I never worried about deadzone
> before.
> The way I understand(now) it is this:  The car naturally wants to deviate from
> the straight line because of engine torque, camber, etc.  Having a large
> deadzone in the steering means that your minor corrections to the car's
> direction take longer to show up.  This makes the corrections seem MAJOR, and
> you're constantly 'chasing' the car.  With little(or no) deadzone, the
> corrections are almost subconscious, thus not noticable.
> Chuck, Andre - is that how it works?

Absolutely.  Kinda like having a worn-out steering gear, or badly worn
steering linkage.  Is it working better for you now, Eldred?

--

Fester

markga

1.30 @ monza

by markga » Sat, 16 Jun 2001 05:44:22

Just as a bit of info, the GPL Foolishness site
(http://website.lineone.net/~richardn/) has this to say about the
linear setting.

Set the steering to fully linear. It may seem a bit weird at first,
but it permits better medium-high speed steering control (great for
Monza and Silverstone), makes it easier to catch slides and seems to
give you a better 'feel' for the car. I find trail braking almost
impossible without fully linear steering.

By the same token (if you are running version 1.1.0.3 or above) edit
core.ini, find the [ Hack ] section and set steer_ratio to 0. This
prevents the steering from progressively switching to a 7:1 ratio when
the speed drops below 60 MPH. This may seem like a good idea for
getting out of your pit stalls and getting round the tight hairpins at
Moncao, but in reality it really messes up your handling of the car at
these low speeds. For example, before I turned the hack off, I could
never drive Monaco/Sainte Dvote or Rouen/Nouveau Monde
consistently - I never felt I had full control of the car.

Neil Rain

1.30 @ monza

by Neil Rain » Sat, 16 Jun 2001 01:30:45



(Andre
> Warringa) writes:

> >Linearity completely to the left. And it was a while ago that I played
> >with the deadzone settings, but I vaguely remember using DXTweak to
> >alter the deadzone and using 2 variables -2 and -2 somewhere.
> >I'm at work atm so I can't check it for you.

> Man, full linear would drive me crazy, I think...

I use full linear as well - it's quite sensitive on the straights, but I get
better control in the corners.

Also, I just checked - my deadzone is 0% and always has been - I can fully
imagine how disastrous it would be to have a non-zero deadzone, as I would
never be able to make the small corrections needed to keep the car on the
straights!

Get rid of that deadzone!

Neil Rain

1.30 @ monza

by Neil Rain » Sat, 16 Jun 2001 05:48:46




Ives

> > >I don't get this, can someone please explain.  To me, having a deadzone
> > >should 'prevent' a wandering car because it gives you more play on your
> > >steering wheel before it moves far enough to go off straight.
Therefore
> > >you can keep the onscreen wheels straight easier whereas, with no
> > >deadzone, I would imagine it to very difficult to keep the wheels
> > >completely straight causing the car to wander.

> > I used to think the same way as you - that's why I never worried about
deadzone
> > before.
> > The way I understand(now) it is this:  The car naturally wants to
deviate from
> > the straight line because of engine torque, camber, etc.  Having a large
> > deadzone in the steering means that your minor corrections to the car's
> > direction take longer to show up.  This makes the corrections seem
MAJOR, and
> > you're constantly 'chasing' the car.  With little(or no) deadzone, the
> > corrections are almost subconscious, thus not noticable.
> > Chuck, Andre - is that how it works?

> Absolutely.  Kinda like having a worn-out steering gear, or badly worn
> steering linkage.  Is it working better for you now, Eldred?

I can almost hear the intake of breath as we wait for the answer...

... wondering how Eldred's next session will go...  ;-)

Uncle Feste

1.30 @ monza

by Uncle Feste » Sat, 16 Jun 2001 05:54:41


> I can almost hear the intake of breath as we wait for the answer...

> ... wondering how Eldred's next session will go...  ;-)

If Eldred has gotta as far as he has so far with a deadzone of 10%
(!!!), I think this may be the thing that bumps him into negative
territory!

--

Fester

Peter Ive

1.30 @ monza

by Peter Ive » Sat, 16 Jun 2001 06:32:39




>Peter Ives

>>I don't get this, can someone please explain.  To me, having a deadzone
>>should 'prevent' a wandering car because it gives you more play on your
>>steering wheel before it moves far enough to go off straight.  Therefore
>>you can keep the onscreen wheels straight easier whereas, with no
>>deadzone, I would imagine it to very difficult to keep the wheels
>>completely straight causing the car to wander.

>I used to think the same way as you - that's why I never worried about
>deadzone
>before.
>The way I understand(now) it is this:  The car naturally wants to deviate from
>the straight line because of engine torque, camber, etc.  Having a large
>deadzone in the steering means that your minor corrections to the car's
>direction take longer to show up.  This makes the corrections seem MAJOR,
>and
>you're constantly 'chasing' the car.  With little(or no) deadzone, the
>corrections are almost subconscious, thus not noticable.  
>Chuck, Andre - is that how it works?

>Eldred

Cheers Eldred, can't say I've noticed things as bad as that.  Generally
I don't have too much difficulty going straight now.  More of a problem
keeping the car from veering off under braking, though even this is less
so than it used to be say 2 or 3 weeks ago so perhaps it was a technique
thing, though I still have my linearity at about 2/3rds non-linear
because any more linear and the old problems start to reappear.

Ok, I'm off to get these utils to change my deadzone to see how things
pan out anyway.  If I have any comments to make I'll start a new thread
about it.  This one is getting way too long.  :)
--
Peter Ives
Remove ALL_STRESS before replying
If you know what's good for you, don't listen to me
GPLRank Joystick -50.63 Wheel -14.08

Asbj?rn Bj?rnst

1.30 @ monza

by Asbj?rn Bj?rnst » Sat, 16 Jun 2001 08:38:10


> I don't get this, can someone please explain.  To me, having a deadzone
> should 'prevent' a wandering car because it gives you more play on your
> steering wheel before it moves far enough to go off straight.  Therefore
> you can keep the onscreen wheels straight easier whereas, with no
> deadzone, I would imagine it to very difficult to keep the wheels
> completely straight causing the car to wander.

The wheels are almost straight, or they may be straight, but the car may
be pointed a little bit to one side. The problem with the deadzone is
that there isn't anything that tells you where the deadzone ends so
smaal adjustments are hard to do because you have to travel across a
deadzone of unknown size before the input starts to have any effect. So when
you try to correct the steering, you will probably overcorrect and start
to weer off in the other direction.
--
  -asbjxrn
Jim Seamu

1.30 @ monza

by Jim Seamu » Sat, 16 Jun 2001 08:41:05

Although i've set my linearity to full-linear, I've never played with the
deadzone - how do I find out what % deadzone I have? Even tiny movements of
my wheel (MS non-FF) make the GPL onscreen wheel move, but someone has
pointed out that that doesn't necessarily guarantee zero deadzone (which
doesn't make sense to me, but I'm interested to know anyway)

Thanks
Jim





> (Andre
> > Warringa) writes:

> > >Linearity completely to the left. And it was a while ago that I played
> > >with the deadzone settings, but I vaguely remember using DXTweak to
> > >alter the deadzone and using 2 variables -2 and -2 somewhere.
> > >I'm at work atm so I can't check it for you.

> > Man, full linear would drive me crazy, I think...

> I use full linear as well - it's quite sensitive on the straights, but I
get
> better control in the corners.

> Also, I just checked - my deadzone is 0% and always has been - I can fully
> imagine how disastrous it would be to have a non-zero deadzone, as I would
> never be able to make the small corrections needed to keep the car on the
> straights!

> Get rid of that deadzone!

Eldre

1.30 @ monza

by Eldre » Sat, 16 Jun 2001 10:10:44


writes:

I haven't had a chance to hit it again yet.  I'll run some laps tonight.

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
F1 hcp. +20.90...F2 +151.26...

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Eldre

1.30 @ monza

by Eldre » Sat, 16 Jun 2001 10:10:43



>By the same token (if you are running version 1.1.0.3 or above) edit
>core.ini, find the [ Hack ] section and set steer_ratio to 0. This
>prevents the steering from progressively switching to a 7:1 ratio when
>the speed drops below 60 MPH. This may seem like a good idea for
>getting out of your pit stalls and getting round the tight hairpins at
>Moncao, but in reality it really messes up your handling of the car at
>these low speeds. For example, before I turned the hack off, I could
>never drive Monaco/Sainte Dvote or Rouen/Nouveau Monde
>consistently - I never felt I had full control of the car.

Andre, have you disabled the hack while using Leonardo's setup?  Just looking
for another frame of reference...

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
F1 hcp. +20.90...F2 +151.26...

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Thom j

1.30 @ monza

by Thom j » Sat, 16 Jun 2001 14:30:49

Sorry Jim but I do not agree.. I have run GPL since they were put on the
shelves 3yrs ago and I have tried many parts of the linear spectrum to see
what was best for me! I had several I liked but I ended up with the linear
all to the way to the left. I can still run it easily in other places on the
slide
but I opt for full left..

| I use full linear as well, someone told me during my first week of GPL'ing
| that that gave better control of the car. I think once you're used to one
| way though the other way seems impossible, no matter which you're used to.
| Erm, hope that made sense...
|
| Jim

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Andre Warrin

1.30 @ monza

by Andre Warrin » Sat, 16 Jun 2001 17:29:25



Full left = Full linear Thom :)

Andre


>| I use full linear as well, someone told me during my first week of GPL'ing
>| that that gave better control of the car. I think once you're used to one
>| way though the other way seems impossible, no matter which you're used to.
>| Erm, hope that made sense...
>|
>| Jim

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Andre Warrin

1.30 @ monza

by Andre Warrin » Sat, 16 Jun 2001 17:31:56


You got it buddy :)
Indeed I'm allways making corrections on the straight
subconscious..never really thought about that either actually :)

Andre

Andre Warrin

1.30 @ monza

by Andre Warrin » Sat, 16 Jun 2001 17:39:51




>>By the same token (if you are running version 1.1.0.3 or above) edit
>>core.ini, find the [ Hack ] section and set steer_ratio to 0. This
>>prevents the steering from progressively switching to a 7:1 ratio when
>>the speed drops below 60 MPH. This may seem like a good idea for
>>getting out of your pit stalls and getting round the tight hairpins at
>>Moncao, but in reality it really messes up your handling of the car at
>>these low speeds. For example, before I turned the hack off, I could
>>never drive Monaco/Sainte Dvote or Rouen/Nouveau Monde
>>consistently - I never felt I had full control of the car.

>Andre, have you disabled the hack while using Leonardo's setup?  Just looking
>for another frame of reference...

No, I haven't. Actually a couple of weeks ago I experimented with this
(again). In the end it seems a matter of personal preference and not a
'must' setting. Some of the fastest guys have it on, some have it off.
I feel that I have perfect control with the ratio to 1, it's just
something you have to get used too, and it's quite handy at the
hairpins.
But.. after reading Nunnini's text I think I'm going to turn it off
again for a while to see if it helps..
Nunnini says it helps at Sainte Devote at Monaco, but the major
disadvantage of this is is that you have to set your steering ratio
WAY lower at Monaco to get around the hairpin, making steering much
more harder for me..

Andre

Jan Verschuere

1.30 @ monza

by Jan Verschuere » Sat, 16 Jun 2001 19:01:19

It's the other bit he disagrees with Andre. I.e. that once you're used to
one setting, the other becoming impossible, which I don't agree with either.

That said, I do use full linear exlusively as well.

Jan.
=---

Andre Warringa wrote...

> > Sorry Jim but I do not agree.. I have run GPL since they
> > were put on the shelves 3yrs ago and I have tried many
> > parts of the linear spectrum to see what was best for me!
> > I had several I liked but I ended up with the linear all
> > to the way to the left. I can still run it easily in other
> > places on the slide but I opt for full left..

> Full left = Full linear Thom :)

> Andre