rec.autos.simulators

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Rob Berryhill

I  quit watching F1 some races ago Dave, so I wouldnt know what to comment
on.

Having said that - isn't this the wrong newsgroup to discuss stuff like
this?

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ed_

(O.T. P.D)

Achim

we're talking about different Brazil incidents I think - mine was last year,
unless I'm getting old and confused :-) where MS had to really go onto the
grass in T1 and JPM's RF wheel had contact with MS' car.

I think this year there was a really good racing maneuver from both in T1,
where they exchanged positions and drove really intelligently. Good racing
IMO.

I think it's like I said. JPM attacked MS overly hard several times since he
entered F1 and MS did hold back up to a certain point, from where he decided
to stand his ground. At least that's how I perceived it.

And I don't want to blindly support him.

Achim

Indeed, thought I mentioned that by saying he wasn't getting smart.

Replace "car" by "self" in that sentence and I'll agree with you. When it's
just him and the car vs the track, there's few who rival him, IMO. His
situational awareness is poor, however. In the T1 incident with Ralf I don't
think he even thought about looking that way until it was too late. Did they
actually touch? -Didn't look that way to me, but hard to say for sure.

I think DC's comments are justified... that's what I meant with the getting
smart bit. Even if we're to believe JPM's excuse it was still a mistake to
try to convince the team a stop was necessary and keep DC behind. Having to
yield to DC, would have supported his viewpoint with a tyre change was
necessary.

Yes, and he payed the price when MS didn't back out of the move. They didn't
give eachother the light of day and came together. Would it have been ***
for the stewards to leave it at that?

I assumed you were still talking T1 accidents, sorry.

There is some of that on both sides, IMO, only MS is an established
superstar and uses that to great advantage to make JPM look dumb. You see,
MS *is* smart.

Jan.
=---

"When a car is really good it is more difficult for drivers to make a bigger
difference," said Berger. "Rubens is a good driver, no question. But Michael
is an outstanding driver.

"I remember when I joined Benetton at the end of 1995 after Michael had just
won the championship and moved to Ferrari. At the first test in Estoril I
straight away did a lap time close to Michael's best.

"I thought 'no problem, I'll just go right on the limit and I will be
quicker than him'. But when I tried that I just lost the car the whole time
and I was in the barrier.

"I destroyed two or three cars in a row because the car was very, very,
critical in the last few per cent of the performance."

Berger is able to laugh about the experience now. "After that I said to
myself 'maybe Michael is not too bad after all because he can race it like
this lap after lap after lap'," he added.

"If you have a perfect car which is quite easy to drive to the limit the gap
is going to be smaller." --Berger

David G Fisher

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l8er
ronny

Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change
to take effect. Reboot now?

It's the same reason why they allowed traction control, etc.
FIA was not able to control it, as the line between TC and good
engine management is very thin, so they made it legal for all.

Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change
to take effect. Reboot now?

I've been thinking recently, that you're right about JPM, Dave. However he
does compare favourably with the dull (this year) R Schumacher, in the
entertainment stakes.  JPM looks more and more like a pabst "insect" every
race :oD

In answer to your original comment, I find that allowing both cars to race
without orders for 50 laps then asking them to hold position and bring the
cars home is a lot different to telling one driver to move aside for the
other after outdriving him and leading him for practically the whole race.  
Rubens and Michael raced on sunday, they raced for 50 laps and the "winner"
of that race carried on ahead to the end.  At austria, if there was any
racing between the two, the "winner" was told to step aside and lose his
place in the history books of formula one.

MS was catching RB, and was faster, even after the spin, but "catching is
one thing, passing is quite another" RB would have had to deliberately step
aside for MS to get past him, that's my opinion.

cheers
John

Isn't self control a big part of car control? Doesn't car control come from
the thousands of rapid fire decisions you make while driving?

What I don't understand is why JPM continues to have this reputation for
great car control while his teammate who's driving the same car has been
getting the better results. RS has a better qualifying and race record since
JPM joined the team. RS has fewer accidents. He's smoother while going just
as fast, or faster.

The 'Ring race was a perfect example. RS did lose pole to JPM, but only by
.009. RS was using the hard tires though. RS was the one who had great car
control when he passed JPM (JPM actually hit him), and RS ended up with the
better race result because of JPM hitting DC.

I think people say JPM has great car control because they've seen a few in
car shots of him using opposite lock to catch the rear when in CART. Not
sliding the rear of the car in the first place, while still being fast is
what I consider to be good car control. Holding your line, being smooth, not
causing accidents, etc. All F1 drivers can go around the track with the back
end*** out but that's not the fastest way around the track, so they
don't.

I saw a view which showed JPM's front left hitting RS's rear right tire.

Yes.

I don't necessarily agree that a pnealty was necessary, but I'm more
focusing on who was at fault.

David G Fisher

Achim

Achim

...

\

RS didn't. When RS was under pressure he just let his bro on past.
Disgusting. He should have at least used the 'one move' rule.

Compare Montoya trying to protect his place vs Ralf meekly letting Michael
past.

Thanx to cooperation from the passing driver. Just because the car behind
you is faster doesn't mean you should let it pass easily.

Bah. JPM had a small slow spin which would have had no consequence if DC
wasn't trying to pass him on the outside.

Hard to argue with three poles in a row.

David took a risk. Montoya's tyres were crap. Montoya tried to defend his
position at all costs.

I prefer Montoya crashing to him acting like almost every other boring F1
driver today who almost lets the fastest car past them.

Thank goodness for Montoya's attitude I say.

However - I would like him to finish a race sometime.

---
Bill (who admits to being JPM biased since FINALLY there is some life in
F1 now).

\
races.

What? Three poles in a row. Only started driving these courses last year
in F1 cars. You can't tell me that someone who is only onto their second
time at these tracks in a F1 car who is beating RS in qualifying is not
faster overall.

Considering how quickly Montoya has come to grips with a F1 car and road
tracks after driving turboed V8s on mix of Ovals an road tracks it is VERY
impressive.

And he is fearless, and agressive. This actually gives us something
interesting to watch rather than the usual F1 procession we have been
getting for ages. Montoya will not move over meekly to let a faster car
through. He will make anyone work to pass him.

I like this. Without Montoya the only unpredictable thing is which Ferrari
will be allowed to win the race.

What we really need now though is some WET RACES!! Where is the ***y
RAIN!

---
Bill

.

Excellent point.

Williams should have two stopped considering the tyre problem they (and
the other four people who spun their Michelin shod cars on the pit entry)
had. But I guess they couldn't predict the tyre wear problem.

From the angles I saw Montoya's inside rear tyre seemed to hit the curbing
and bounce off which is what unsettled his car. But saying that i don't
think it was a high curb.

JPM should be used to this in tyres - but I guess in CART days his tyres
started cold and just got better. He has to get used to tyres going off
now.

Yes. His car does fail more often than Ralf's. But he has outqualified him
a lot recently. More experience should take care of this hopefully.

---
Bill