rec.autos.simulators

RASCAR Coca Cola

grubba

RASCAR Coca Cola

by grubba » Tue, 23 Jul 2002 10:31:43

Well, here is my observations. Instead of creatings all of theses rules mid
season, lets just try to improve the online racing experience by fixing only
what is broken. I agree with ZZ, the forced***pit makes driving more
difficult for me and may cause more incidents. Our goal is to make things
better. From my 6sigma days, we call this reducing or eliminating variation.
We need to be careful and not try to 'fix' too many things at once. The
forced***pit is something that I think is not needed at this time. Also,
I'm not too sure about the 10 lap thing. I haven't seen it yet this year and
don't know if it will even be an issue. Maybe some of the other leagues are
using it because they have already experienced a blown win by a lapper. I
really wanted a double file restart on some of the races but that may cause
some issues that I am not aware of.
    Of course, what ever the masses decides on and Sir Eldred approves, I
will gladly go alone with. I would caution that too many rules may turn fun
into work...besides, since the 60's did something to my memory, I might have
to write down all them there rules and read over them while im racing so
that I dont ferget non of them.
    Here is my rulzs:
        Fixed setups, no wreckin, double file restarts, yellow flags, any
view ya want, no chattin while ya racing but leave chat on, voting of all
racers on unsportsman ungentleman like conduct (majority kicks your ***out
of the race), and you dont have to leave the game if ya wreck, but you have
to be a good little racer and let the faster ones pass.
    This should be enough rules fer the next race. By then, someone will
have made up a completely new set.
grub



Eldre

RASCAR Coca Cola

by Eldre » Tue, 23 Jul 2002 10:46:30



>I think it came out better than expected because we were 1)Ready for it due
>to the pre-race discussions and 2)The actual online FAST setup was totally
>different than the Offline FAST setup.  Why I don't know, but it was a good
>thing :)

The only thing that was changed was the tape - from 45% to 40%.  If it made
THAT big of a difference in the feel of the car, *I* sure couldn't feel it...

Eldred
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Eldre

RASCAR Coca Cola

by Eldre » Tue, 23 Jul 2002 10:46:30



>It almost paid off.  We had a yellow occur 1 lap before the crossed-flag
>halfway point.  I was the only real contender that pitted if I noticed
>right.  When I left the pit, I had enough to finish the race + 1 lap.

>If it would have stayed green the rest of the way (pipe dream, I realize,
>but you never know :)), I would have handily won the race.  Unless someone
>else did the same and I didn't notice it.

I *think* I came in during that yellow, also.  I thought I had a great race
going until the last caution.  I got loose, and got absolutely CREAMED by
someone who must have decided he didn't want to wear out his brakes avoiding
me... :-(  So much for that.  At least I led a few laps(only the second race
I've led, I think).
I guess I'll never win one of these damn things...

Eldred
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jason moy

RASCAR Coca Cola

by jason moy » Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:10:44



>It's quite clear that we all have *very* different views on racings and on
>what's "allowed" and what's not - and this is *preciely* why we need a set
>of rules!  Guidelines will not do the job.

What we need is a guideline saying you aren't allowed to hold the
ideal line for an entire race because then I can't pass you.

Can that be done?

Jason

jason moy

RASCAR Coca Cola

by jason moy » Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:11:51


I saw Mark Martin smack the wall recently, and from the in-car cam you
could see him reaching across the***pit to find his F10 key.  Er
wait, it's page up/down now eh?  

Anyway, if you can't see out of your windshield, there's always
Ctrl-T.

Jason

jason moy

RASCAR Coca Cola

by jason moy » Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:17:28


>I've been suggesting that we have rules and closed membership for AT
>LEAST 3 months. Again, nobody seemed interested.  Rules are useless if
>we have open races that anyone can join (which is basically what we
>have), becauyse the new guys can always beg off by whining about not
>having seen any "rules".

I would consider actually entering a race again if Eldred gave someone
the authority to someone to be race director who laid out some clear
rules and took care of incident resolution.

I do think the final say of course should rest with Eldred but I'm
throwing this out there since a big reason I haven't raced in a long
time is the lack of any organization.

Jason

Brian Oste

RASCAR Coca Cola

by Brian Oste » Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:59:54




>>I think it came out better than expected because we were 1)Ready for it due
>>to the pre-race discussions and 2)The actual online FAST setup was totally
>>different than the Offline FAST setup.  Why I don't know, but it was a good
>>thing :)

>The only thing that was changed was the tape - from 45% to 40%.  If it made
>THAT big of a difference in the feel of the car, *I* sure couldn't feel it...

>Eldred

I think the difference, at least for me, was that in the RASCAR race
the fastest I ever entered a turn was around 230 - 235 and off-line in
the big 43 car pack I can easily draft up to 240 - 245 and that made a
big difference to me.  Of course I only had about 15 laps :( so what
do I know.

Brian Oster

Mitch Alatorr

RASCAR Coca Cola

by Mitch Alatorr » Tue, 23 Jul 2002 12:46:13

Forced***pits is good!  Roof riding is cheating plain and simple!  IMO
anything other than***pit view shouldn't be in this or any other racing
*SIMULATION*.   If anyone wants to roof ride go play your PS2..  And don't
anyone even get me started on the "motion sickness" excuses..

Not directed at you personally here Grubbat just roof riders in general.
Some things just get me all bent outta shape and roof ridin is one of em
:-)

Mitch


> Well, here is my observations. Instead of creatings all of theses rules
mid
> season, lets just try to improve the online racing experience by fixing
only
> what is broken. I agree with ZZ, the forced***pit makes driving more
> difficult for me and may cause more incidents. Our goal is to make things
> better. From my 6sigma days, we call this reducing or eliminating
variation.
> We need to be careful and not try to 'fix' too many things at once. The
> forced***pit is something that I think is not needed at this time. Also,
> I'm not too sure about the 10 lap thing. I haven't seen it yet this year
and
> don't know if it will even be an issue. Maybe some of the other leagues
are
> using it because they have already experienced a blown win by a lapper. I
> really wanted a double file restart on some of the races but that may
cause
> some issues that I am not aware of.
>     Of course, what ever the masses decides on and Sir Eldred approves, I
> will gladly go alone with. I would caution that too many rules may turn
fun
> into work...besides, since the 60's did something to my memory, I might
have
> to write down all them there rules and read over them while im racing so
> that I dont ferget non of them.
>     Here is my rulzs:
>         Fixed setups, no wreckin, double file restarts, yellow flags, any
> view ya want, no chattin while ya racing but leave chat on, voting of all
> racers on unsportsman ungentleman like conduct (majority kicks your ***
out
> of the race), and you dont have to leave the game if ya wreck, but you
have
> to be a good little racer and let the faster ones pass.
>     This should be enough rules fer the next race. By then, someone will
> have made up a completely new set.
> grub



> > 1. All races are run with the following settings: 40% length - Fixed
setup
> > ("fast") - Yellows on - forced smoke - *forced***pit* - single file
> > restarts. Weather is fixed at 70 deg F. / no wind.  For now, yellows are
> > turned off on roadcourses. Also, if things improve we might revert back
to
> > double-file restarts.
> > -------------------------------------
> > I can't drive from the "cockpit". In all the Papy Nascar games I've
never
> > been able to drive from the***pit safely. I use the view that has the
> > nose, with the gauges and mirror showing. Forced***pits will "force"
me
> > out.
> > Everything else looks fine to me.

> > --
> > Richard "ZZ" Busch

> > Member:
> > Screamers Racing League
> > CORS
> > RASCAR
> > GPL Rank + 17.46
> > MoGPL Rank + 349.43
> > ----------------
> > Busch Motorsports:
> > Remember racecar is racecar spelled backward
> > -----------------
> > Busch Carpentry:
> > A good carpenter can nail anything
> > -----------------

John Simmon

RASCAR Coca Cola

by John Simmon » Tue, 23 Jul 2002 19:10:26



You can't have committees vopting on rules violations.  Besides - if we
don't have rules like lappers down pit road, no passing till
backstretch, etc, there won't be any of those kinds of things to police.

--
=========================================================
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DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development)
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=========================================================

John Simmon

RASCAR Coca Cola

by John Simmon » Tue, 23 Jul 2002 19:11:58

That's in the guidelines right now - don't drive the low line all the
way around the track.  It's not necessarily the optimum line, it merely
prevents passing at the supers.


says...



> >It's quite clear that we all have *very* different views on racings and on
> >what's "allowed" and what's not - and this is *preciely* why we need a set
> >of rules!  Guidelines will not do the job.

> What we need is a guideline saying you aren't allowed to hold the
> ideal line for an entire race because then I can't pass you.

> Can that be done?

> Jason

--
=========================================================
Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
  http://www.paddedwall.org/john
DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
  http://www.paddedwall.org/demons
DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development)
  http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2
RASCAR Roster
  http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar
Barbarian Diecast Collector (490+ cars and counting)
  http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast

If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
=========================================================

Jan Verschuere

RASCAR Coca Cola

by Jan Verschuere » Tue, 23 Jul 2002 20:51:10

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: if you don't believe, and I
mean: deep down truly believe, you got what it takes to win, you won't.
Ridicule the notion as much as you want, but it's just the way we humans
work.

Jan.
=---
"It's for the fun." - Gilles Panizzi

Mika Takal

RASCAR Coca Cola

by Mika Takal » Wed, 24 Jul 2002 05:22:04

I decided to comment to this rulebook, even if have never raced in Rascar.

Fixed setup can be good for beginners, but the real racing is done with
fiddling with setups.
Forced***pit... well, Finnish Nascar league has this on every level, and
it really makes the experience more immersive for everyone. The problem with
the hood is a bad excuse. If you are damaged and can't drive safely, you
must drive very slow and on the apron!

Fixed weather, that's an interesting point. Finnish Nascar league drives
with realistic weather in most divisions, it just makes it more realistic.
Fixed weather is better for beginners.

This is an interesting rule from FFRL, but I think it leaves too many
different ways to see things....

Definately a MUST for online racing; the mad runs to the line and high speed
crashes resulting from it after the yellows are already out, decreased
significantly when we decided to use this rule in the early days of N4. Also
the pileups right after the line when slowing for pacecar were decreased
when people just rolled towards the pace.

Although this allows lapped cars a better opportunity to take their laps
back, the cars on the lead lap don't need to slow down to let them pass.

When there is under 10 laps to go, this rule is changed back to race back to
the line, and to get rid of the slower lapped cars, the lapped cars drive
through pits under the last yellow lap.

All the stuff above is NOT in real-life Nascar rules, but the drivers all
respect it as the gentlemans rule. I just don't understand why that hasn't
been included in any Papy's Nascar sims yet.

Common sense.

Yep, these are almost mandatory in any decent online races.

--
Mika Takala

Eldre

RASCAR Coca Cola

by Eldre » Wed, 24 Jul 2002 05:30:19



>I've said it before, and I'll say it again: if you don't believe, and I
>mean: deep down truly believe, you got what it takes to win, you won't.
>Ridicule the notion as much as you want, but it's just the way we humans
>work.

Running a superspeedway is easy - stay in the draft, stay clean, and be around
at the end.  If you are good enough to control your car , you have a shot.
Hell, I almost won the SOAR-LAS race at Daytona last month, with a setup I'd
never driven before.  At other tracks, your skill(or lack thereof) makes a much
bigger difference.  IOW, I'm a few seconds off the pace.  Positive thinking
alone will NOT gain me 3 seconds per lap....

Eldred
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Eldre

RASCAR Coca Cola

by Eldre » Wed, 24 Jul 2002 05:30:19


moyer) writes:

>>When I started the server, I was inforcing***pit view.  But I have stopped
>>using forced***pit.  Some people can't drive in***pit view, for whatever
>>reason.  Also, if your hood is damaged, you need an outside view in order to
>>make it back to the pits.

>I saw Mark Martin smack the wall recently, and from the in-car cam you
>could see him reaching across the***pit to find his F10 key.  Er
>wait, it's page up/down now eh?  

>Anyway, if you can't see out of your windshield, there's always
>Ctrl-T.

Come on, Jason - they can see a BIT more than we can...  We need SOME
consideration because of the limited view.

Eldred
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Eldre

RASCAR Coca Cola

by Eldre » Wed, 24 Jul 2002 05:30:19



Even if we DO race by the same rules, we have yellow upon yellow.  The only
rules that would affect what happens on the track are "No passing until the
backstretch", and "Don't race back to yellow".  Maybe "No bumpdrafting".
Everything else, IMO is part of racing, and accidents will happen.
Although in my league race Saturday at Indy, we only had 2 or 3 cautions over
80 laps...

Eldred
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