rec.autos.simulators

RASCAR Coca Cola

Colin Harri

RASCAR Coca Cola

by Colin Harri » Tue, 23 Jul 2002 08:44:22




> > > On re-starts with less then 10 laps to go, lap down cars should drive
> > > through the pit lane when the 1 to go is given so that only lead lap
> > > cars will be at the font.  (I saw this one on a league's rules.
> > > Sounds good in theory, but I don't know how well it works in
> > > practice.)

> > > Brian Oster

> > you are really letting this racing stuff distort reality, nobody is
gonna
> do
> > that nonsense

> > in fact, you may be insane

> Sascar does it, and it works very well.

> Don Burnette

FFRL does it, too....works like a charm, and is courteous to the leaders.
Brian Oste

RASCAR Coca Cola

by Brian Oste » Tue, 23 Jul 2002 08:48:58






>> >We must have some sort of rulebook that make us all play by the same
>> >rules...

>> There is(or was) a rules list on John Simmons' webpage.  That's what we're
>> supposed to be following.  But I'll comment on a couple below:

>Well, it's still there, and it's been updated.  I think a lot of the
>proposed rules that have been batted around in this thread do two
>things.  

>1) It ruins the competitive nature of the sport. Just because you're a
>lap down, down't mean you can't keep up with or pass a lead-lap car. In
>fact, I went down a lap at Dega a few months back because I passed some
>cars that spun/wrecked against the outside wall on the front straight  
>before the start/finish line and AFTER the green dropped. In fact, there
>were a number of us penalized for that very thing, yet none of us were
>off the pace.  Further, there's nothing more demoralizing in a race than
>to realize that you'll NEVER get your lap back with rules like those in
>place.  It's just bullshit.

>2) It does not help anyone learn how to drive in the sim with more
>realism.  What good is "no passing till the backstretch, single-file
>restarts, or lapped cars must go down pit road before restart?  It
>certainly does teach anyone anything.

Lap cars down the pit lane would only happen if there is less then 10
to go and as I stated above this is what the REAL NASCAR rules are.
As far as no passing until the backstretch, I would not be in favor of
that either.  I would like to see us return to double file restarts
for the simple fact that I think that cars a lap down should be given
the opportunity to get a lap back.

Brian Oster

Brian Oste

RASCAR Coca Cola

by Brian Oste » Tue, 23 Jul 2002 08:53:52

The ONLY reason I would be opposed to a *forced* rule book and an
invite list is that it would just be more work for Eldred and those
others that help to put this on every week.  It's easy for those of us
that show up once a week for a few hours to gripe and complain and
demand rules and membership, but someone has to take care of all these
things and I just dont want this to become such a burden that they
finally say "screw it" and drop the whole thing.  If they want to do
it more power to them.

Brian Oster




>> John,

>> This is *not* stockcar racing - this is sim-racing.....  and there's a world
>> of difference! (Pardon the 'pun)

>So how is your point any different than mine?

>> Although I'm a keen believer in realism - none of my suggested rules were
>> attempts to make other drive with more realistic settings.  What I want in a
>> fair race, where everyone play by the same rules and within the same
>> limitations.

>> It's quite clear that we all have *very* different views on racings and on
>> what's "allowed" and what's not - and this is *preciely* why we need a set
>> of rules!  Guidelines will not do the job.

>Well, nobody wanted to call them "rules", and further, nobody appears to
>want the job of stepping on peoples necks when they *** up.  I stepped
>up to do it, and everyone reacted like I was the ***in anti-christ.

>I've been suggesting that we have rules and closed membership for AT
>LEAST 3 months. Again, nobody seemed interested.  Rules are useless if
>we have open races that anyone can join (which is basically what we
>have), becauyse the new guys can always beg off by whining about not
>having seen any "rules".

>About the forced***pit thing, it's IMPOSSIBLE to drive around watkins
>glen or sears point safely AT ANY SPEED when your hood is pushed up
>against your windshield.  On the other tracks, it's almost IMPOSSIBLE to
>enter pit road safely because you can't see it coming.  Forced***pit
>is NOT conducive to effective racing online.

Larr

RASCAR Coca Cola

by Larr » Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:13:38

I also found that the "FAST" setup online was nothing like the "FAST" setup
online.  I don't know what caused the difference, but it was really night
and day.

-Larry


> Well ....

> I took Larry and ZZ's advice and got some serious offline practice in
> traffic. That place is deadly! In the draft it's like skating on ice to
hold
> the chosen line and if someone drifts up on you it's all over. I booked an
> early visit to the pub in expectation.

> Come the race however, the quality of driving was superb overall - never
had
> so much fun on a SS before. In traffic all the way and (where I was) never
> came close to a touch. Well done guys and well done Ed for a fine piece of
> strategy. Can't wait for next week now :0

> cya



> > My only advice for this track is STAY OFF the yellow line low in the
> turns.
> > You'll only come to grief. If we don't stay off that line it will many
> slow
> > laps under yellow.

> > --
> > Richard "ZZ" Busch

> > Member:
> > Screamers Racing League
> > CORS
> > RASCAR
> > GPL Rank + 17.46
> > MoGPL Rank + 349.43

> > http://www.ZZBusch.com
> > ----------------
> > Busch Motorsports:
> > Remember racecar is racecar spelled backward
> > -----------------
> > Busch Carpentry:
> > A good carpenter can nail anything
> > -----------------

Larr

RASCAR Coca Cola

by Larr » Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:18:33

I think it came out better than expected because we were 1)Ready for it due
to the pre-race discussions and 2)The actual online FAST setup was totally
different than the Offline FAST setup.  Why I don't know, but it was a good
thing :)

I really hosed up qualifying.  I tried to toss the first lap, got too high,
and touched the wall.  I was assessed "Wall Glue" for that (they really need
to fix that) and it was all over from there as far as qualifying goes.

The first 3/4 of the race I made a concerted effort just to stay the hell
away from everyone :)  I also pitted on EVERY yellow flag, keeping my tires
fresh and my tank full.

It almost paid off.  We had a yellow occur 1 lap before the crossed-flag
halfway point.  I was the only real contender that pitted if I noticed
right.  When I left the pit, I had enough to finish the race + 1 lap.

If it would have stayed green the rest of the way (pipe dream, I realize,
but you never know :)), I would have handily won the race.  Unless someone
else did the same and I didn't notice it.

-Larry



> I thought everyone did really great. It didn't turn out like most of us
> expected at all. Just the opposite. I probably had more fun at that track
> than at any RASCAR race so far, and I hope we throw it into the schedule
> again soon. Watching the replay, I didn't quite realize during the race
how
> tight the racing was. Really excellent stuff.

> Too bad for Mike G. and Jan though. Jan's engine blew up again (he's
having
> my kind of luck lately) and Mike had some weird damage. Watching him try
to
> take the turns after his damage was amusing. :-)

> David G Fisher



> > Well ....

> > I took Larry and ZZ's advice and got some serious offline practice in
> > traffic. That place is deadly! In the draft it's like skating on ice to
> hold
> > the chosen line and if someone drifts up on you it's all over. I booked
an
> > early visit to the pub in expectation.

> > Come the race however, the quality of driving was superb overall - never
> had
> > so much fun on a SS before. In traffic all the way and (where I was)
never
> > came close to a touch. Well done guys and well done Ed for a fine piece
of
> > strategy. Can't wait for next week now :0

> > cya



> > > My only advice for this track is STAY OFF the yellow line low in the
> > turns.
> > > You'll only come to grief. If we don't stay off that line it will many
> > slow
> > > laps under yellow.

> > > --
> > > Richard "ZZ" Busch

> > > Member:
> > > Screamers Racing League
> > > CORS
> > > RASCAR
> > > GPL Rank + 17.46
> > > MoGPL Rank + 349.43

> > > http://www.ZZBusch.com
> > > ----------------
> > > Busch Motorsports:
> > > Remember racecar is racecar spelled backward
> > > -----------------
> > > Busch Carpentry:
> > > A good carpenter can nail anything
> > > -----------------

Larr

RASCAR Coca Cola

by Larr » Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:22:59

Unenforceable, and some of them are just not racing.

To enforce anything like this we'd have to have a race official scan every
lap of every replay to access penalties afterwards.

I'm more inclined to keep it the way the SIM rules are, but I do indeed
agree with mandatory chat enabled.

I don't think this is really what any of us are after.

-Larry



Larr

RASCAR Coca Cola

by Larr » Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:25:47

While I agree with the idea, I think it's better to get Papy to fix it.

Both Dave and I were greatly affected by this flaw in NR2002 yesterday.

-Larry







> >> >> On re-starts with less then 10 laps to go, lap down cars should
drive
> >> >> through the pit lane when the 1 to go is given so that only lead lap
> >> >> cars will be at the font.  (I saw this one on a league's rules.
> >> >> Sounds good in theory, but I don't know how well it works in
> >> >> practice.)

> >> >> Brian Oster

> >> >you are really letting this racing stuff distort reality, nobody is
gonna do
> >> >that nonsense

> >> >in fact, you may be insane

> >> That's uncalled for.  He's not insane, and you're just WRONG.  I *have*
seen
> >> league rules that mandated it.  Would you violate a stated league rule
on
> >> purpose?

> >This is artificial and IMHO, harms a lapped driver's chance of getting a
> >lap back.  I completely disagree with this idea.

> Its not artificial.  The REAL rules state that on a single file
> restart (restarts with less than 10 to go) that lead lap cars line up
> first, followed by lap down cars.  Unfortunately, 2002 does not
> incorporate this rule which is why some leagues require the above rule
> so that it is effectively carried out.  If we continue with single
> file on all restarts this of course would only be implemented when
> there is less than 10 to go.

> Brian Oster

Larr

RASCAR Coca Cola

by Larr » Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:29:07

Wow, I never thought of "B".  I'll have to remember this one :)

I assume you can switch while in the car running...

-Larry




> > I think tonights race was a very good one aswell....

> > However upon watching the replay it's become quite clear to me that we
> > *must* have some sort of rulebook for RASCAR.  Just this race alone I've
> > found atleast 3 or 4 issues that, IMHO, should never have occured.

> > We must have some sort of rulebook that make us all play by the same
> > rules...

> > It does not have to be big at all (I'm thinking 5-10 paragraphs/rules
max)
> > and it can be posted here along with the race information before each
event.

> > I've also taken the libery to make a draft:

> > RASCAR RULEBOOK Rev. 0.5

> > 1. All races are run with the following settings: 40% lenght - Fixed
setup
> > ("fast") - Yellows on - forced smoke - *forced***pit* - single file
> > restarts. Weather is fixed at 70 deg F. / no wind.  For now, yellows are
> > turned off on roadcourses. Also, if things improve we might revert back
to
> > double-file restarts.

> I absolutly do NOT agree with forced***pit, and for the following
> reasons:

> A) There is a rear-view mirror for all driving views while racing (at
> least for***pit, roof and chase.  (This was not the case for GPL, as
> the only time you could get mirrors was in***pit mode.)

> B) If your hood gets pushed up and you can't see,there is NO WAY you can
> safely take the yellow and make it one lap around to enter the pits.

> I'm hesitant to agree with single-file restarts because the black-flag
> characteristics and damage model in the sim is such that a car a lap
> down isn't necessarily going to be any slower than the lead lap cars.
> They deserve a chance to try to get their lap back.

> Forcing smoke on is good in that people will always see ***happening
> on the track long vefore they get there, buit it's bad because some
> people's systems may simply not be able to handle the graphics load. I
> don't mind it being on because I already have it turned on.

> > 2. No passing until backstraight:
> > You are not allowed to pass the car *in front* of you until you reach
the
> > back-straight. This is done in an attempt to make driver relax more on
> > restarts and to avoid over-aggressive driving/diving into turn 1 on
start /
> > restart. You may on the other hand pass the car above or below you on
the
> > start, but you cannot change line until you reach the back straight.
> > NOTE: The only exception to this rule is if you know the car in front of
you
> > is heavily damaged or in other kinds of troubles. You may then switch
lanes
> > to pass it - providing this can be done safely.

> Don't agree with this one at all.  Who determines where the backstretch
> actually starts?  How can you determine if the car in front of you has
> "other kinds of troubles"?  Nope, too much room for self-interpretation,
> and unrealstic besides.

> > 3. No racing back to the line during yellows:
> > When a yellow is waved racing should stop and everyone should ease off
and
> > safely make their way across the S/F-line and behind the pace-car. Be
> > prepared to avoid any stranded cars if needed. When there's 10 laps or
less
> > left of the race - racing back to the line *IS* permitted.

> You CANNOIT have an exception to a rule - either they can race back to
> the yellows, or they can't.

> > 4. Accidents:
> > Drivers involved in any accidents have 2 priorities:
> > First and formost; "Stop" or do whatever it takes to avoid causing any
> > damage to other cars. Secondly get their car back across the S/F-line
and
> > into the pit without making a mess of it all.  Meaning that if you
> > crash/spin/etc.: You have stop and let the whole field pass you - IF
that's
> > what it takes to gurantee that you wont hit anyone once the yellow is
waved.

> This is "common sense" - not a "rule".

> > 5. During cautions/pacelaps:
> > Pace speed is to be uphold at all times. Every driver should try to keep
> > within 2-4 car-lenghts of the car infront. Pitting on restarts is *not*
> > permitted unless you are the *last* in line.

> If everyone is obeying the pace speed, this shouldn't be a problem.

> > 5. Chatting:
> > Everyone *must* have in-car chat enabled.
> > Chatting during racing is to be kept at a very minimum. However
informative
> > chat messages/autochat that's relate to action on the track is
permitted.
> > Chatting during yellows is permitted too, but not encouraged unless you
are
> > comfortable with doing so.

> Free-form chatting should be completely prohibited, and auto-chatting
> should be limited to pit entry/exit or pass high/low stuff.

> > 6. Other:
> > All rules as enforced on us by N2002 counts...  To get the full
> > understanding of what they are,  watch the 'driving lessons' in N2002.
When
> > in doubt - listen to your spotter and follow his directions and you cant
go
> > wrong.

> In other words, no matter what else happens, obey your spotter.

> > 7: Every (registered) driver must use the car-number given to him upon
> > registration and the "approved" paint-job he has provided to the RASCAR
> > roster.

> Alright!

> > 8. Last but not least; think fast, be patience and drive safely.  Use
your
> > mirrors and the 'F2-box' [F2 + Space] to keep track of your fellow
> > competitors.

> > Remember: you don't win on the first lap - you win on the last!

> > What do you guys think?
> > Comments and views are very welcomed.

> > --
> > ed_

> By the way, what's wrong with the draft I have on the roster page?

> --
> =========================================================
> Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
>   http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
>   http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development)
>   http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> RASCAR Roster
>   http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> Barbarian Diecast Collector (490+ cars and counting)
>   http://www.racesimcentral.net/

> If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
> above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
> =========================================================

Larr

RASCAR Coca Cola

by Larr » Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:30:54

I agree with John 100 %

Again, I do believe the forced-chat rule is a good one though.

-Larry





<edwins[

> > >We must have some sort of rulebook that make us all play by the same
> > >rules...

> > There is(or was) a rules list on John Simmons' webpage.  That's what
we're
> > supposed to be following.  But I'll comment on a couple below:

> Well, it's still there, and it's been updated.  I think a lot of the
> proposed rules that have been batted around in this thread do two
> things.

> 1) It ruins the competitive nature of the sport. Just because you're a
> lap down, down't mean you can't keep up with or pass a lead-lap car. In
> fact, I went down a lap at Dega a few months back because I passed some
> cars that spun/wrecked against the outside wall on the front straight
> before the start/finish line and AFTER the green dropped. In fact, there
> were a number of us penalized for that very thing, yet none of us were
> off the pace.  Further, there's nothing more demoralizing in a race than
> to realize that you'll NEVER get your lap back with rules like those in
> place.  It's just bullshit.

> 2) It does not help anyone learn how to drive in the sim with more
> realism.  What good is "no passing till the backstretch, single-file
> restarts, or lapped cars must go down pit road before restart?  It
> certainly does teach anyone anything.

> Rules should be made to promote better driving in more realistic
> circumstances with accomdation for the fact that we are racing online
> with NO peripheral vision to speak of.  I want it to be as realistic as
> possible within the constraints of the hardware/software.

> --
> =========================================================
> Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
>   http://www.paddedwall.org/john
> DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
>   http://www.paddedwall.org/demons
> DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development)
>   http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2
> RASCAR Roster
>   http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar
> Barbarian Diecast Collector (490+ cars and counting)
>   http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast

> If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
> above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
> =========================================================

Larr

RASCAR Coca Cola

by Larr » Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:31:37

We live with the pull to the left, we can live with the Nascar rules :)

-Larry



Larr

RASCAR Coca Cola

by Larr » Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:38:00

Make that OFFLINE vs. ONLINE, of course :)

-Larry


> I also found that the "FAST" setup online was nothing like the "FAST"
setup
> online.  I don't know what caused the difference, but it was really night
> and day.

> -Larry



> > Well ....

> > I took Larry and ZZ's advice and got some serious offline practice in
> > traffic. That place is deadly! In the draft it's like skating on ice to
> hold
> > the chosen line and if someone drifts up on you it's all over. I booked
an
> > early visit to the pub in expectation.

> > Come the race however, the quality of driving was superb overall - never
> had
> > so much fun on a SS before. In traffic all the way and (where I was)
never
> > came close to a touch. Well done guys and well done Ed for a fine piece
of
> > strategy. Can't wait for next week now :0

> > cya



> > > My only advice for this track is STAY OFF the yellow line low in the
> > turns.
> > > You'll only come to grief. If we don't stay off that line it will many
> > slow
> > > laps under yellow.

> > > --
> > > Richard "ZZ" Busch

> > > Member:
> > > Screamers Racing League
> > > CORS
> > > RASCAR
> > > GPL Rank + 17.46
> > > MoGPL Rank + 349.43

> > > http://www.ZZBusch.com
> > > ----------------
> > > Busch Motorsports:
> > > Remember racecar is racecar spelled backward
> > > -----------------
> > > Busch Carpentry:
> > > A good carpenter can nail anything
> > > -----------------

Brian Oste

RASCAR Coca Cola

by Brian Oste » Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:41:07

And this is probably were any type of rule book will fail.  You can't
have a rule book with out either a new password mailed to everyone
every week or an invite list.  Then you will need someone to review it
afterwards and since everyone involved also races it is gonna be hard
to get an objective review.  What kind of penalty are you going to
asses... take points away (what points)? ... multiple infractions
result in banishment?  This will quickly turn into a league where RAS
just happens to be the message board we use to discuss it.  If we are
gonna do that its fine with me, but its gonna be a lot more work for
someone.

Brian Oster


>Unenforceable, and some of them are just not racing.

>To enforce anything like this we'd have to have a race official scan every
>lap of every replay to access penalties afterwards.

>I'm more inclined to keep it the way the SIM rules are, but I do indeed
>agree with mandatory chat enabled.

>I don't think this is really what any of us are after.

>-Larry



>> I think tonights race was a very good one aswell....

>> However upon watching the replay it's become quite clear to me that we
>> *must* have some sort of rulebook for RASCAR.  Just this race alone I've
>> found atleast 3 or 4 issues that, IMHO, should never have occured.

>> We must have some sort of rulebook that make us all play by the same
>> rules...

>> It does not have to be big at all (I'm thinking 5-10 paragraphs/rules max)
>> and it can be posted here along with the race information before each
>event.

>> I've also taken the libery to make a draft:

>> RASCAR RULEBOOK Rev. 0.5

>> 1. All races are run with the following settings: 40% lenght - Fixed setup
>> ("fast") - Yellows on - forced smoke - *forced***pit* - single file
>> restarts. Weather is fixed at 70 deg F. / no wind.  For now, yellows are
>> turned off on roadcourses. Also, if things improve we might revert back to
>> double-file restarts.

>> 2. No passing until backstraight:
>> You are not allowed to pass the car *in front* of you until you reach the
>> back-straight. This is done in an attempt to make driver relax more on
>> restarts and to avoid over-aggressive driving/diving into turn 1 on start
>/
>> restart. You may on the other hand pass the car above or below you on the
>> start, but you cannot change line until you reach the back straight.
>> NOTE: The only exception to this rule is if you know the car in front of
>you
>> is heavily damaged or in other kinds of troubles. You may then switch
>lanes
>> to pass it - providing this can be done safely.

>> 3. No racing back to the line during yellows:
>> When a yellow is waved racing should stop and everyone should ease off and
>> safely make their way across the S/F-line and behind the pace-car. Be
>> prepared to avoid any stranded cars if needed. When there's 10 laps or
>less
>> left of the race - racing back to the line *IS* permitted.

>> 4. Accidents:
>> Drivers involved in any accidents have 2 priorities:
>> First and formost; "Stop" or do whatever it takes to avoid causing any
>> damage to other cars. Secondly get their car back across the S/F-line and
>> into the pit without making a mess of it all.  Meaning that if you
>> crash/spin/etc.: You have stop and let the whole field pass you - IF
>that's
>> what it takes to gurantee that you wont hit anyone once the yellow is
>waved.

>> 5. During cautions/pacelaps:
>> Pace speed is to be uphold at all times. Every driver should try to keep
>> within 2-4 car-lenghts of the car infront. Pitting on restarts is *not*
>> permitted unless you are the *last* in line.

>> 5. Chatting:
>> Everyone *must* have in-car chat enabled.
>> Chatting during racing is to be kept at a very minimum. However
>informative
>> chat messages/autochat that's relate to action on the track is permitted.
>> Chatting during yellows is permitted too, but not encouraged unless you
>are
>> comfortable with doing so.

>> 6. Other:
>> All rules as enforced on us by N2002 counts...  To get the full
>> understanding of what they are,  watch the 'driving lessons' in N2002.
>When
>> in doubt - listen to your spotter and follow his directions and you cant
>go
>> wrong.

>> 7: Every (registered) driver must use the car-number given to him upon
>> registration and the "approved" paint-job he has provided to the RASCAR
>> roster.

>> 8. Last but not least; think fast, be patience and drive safely.  Use your
>> mirrors and the 'F2-box' [F2 + Space] to keep track of your fellow
>> competitors.

>> Remember: you don't win on the first lap - you win on the last!

>> What do you guys think?
>> Comments and views are very welcomed.

>> --
>> ed_

Eldre

RASCAR Coca Cola

by Eldre » Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:41:16



>> That's uncalled for.  He's not insane, and you're just WRONG.  I *have*
>seen
>> league rules that mandated it.  Would you violate a stated league rule on
>> purpose?

>This is artificial and IMHO, harms a lapped driver's chance of getting a
>lap back.  I completely disagree with this idea.

I didn't say I'd actually USE such a rule, but Fredrickson said no one would DO
it.  He was clearly wrong, and needlessly abusive...

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
My .sig file is in the shop for repairs...

Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Larr

RASCAR Coca Cola

by Larr » Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:45:53

Other good points, not to mention someone would have to scour every replay,
and access penalties of some kind.

None of us are here for that.  We all know each other as relatively good
racers, and accept that every one of us can***up from time to time.

And like John said, who on EARTH would want the responsibility of accessing
the penalties :)

I do think the mandatory chat is reasonable.

I would also support the use of an invite list if we have trouble with
non-regulars screwing it up for us.  Typically, I've only seen unknown faces
during the SS races, though.

-Larry


> The ONLY reason I would be opposed to a *forced* rule book and an
> invite list is that it would just be more work for Eldred and those
> others that help to put this on every week.  It's easy for those of us
> that show up once a week for a few hours to gripe and complain and
> demand rules and membership, but someone has to take care of all these
> things and I just dont want this to become such a burden that they
> finally say "screw it" and drop the whole thing.  If they want to do
> it more power to them.

> Brian Oster




> >> John,

> >> This is *not* stockcar racing - this is sim-racing.....  and there's a
world
> >> of difference! (Pardon the 'pun)

> >So how is your point any different than mine?

> >> Although I'm a keen believer in realism - none of my suggested rules
were
> >> attempts to make other drive with more realistic settings.  What I want
in a
> >> fair race, where everyone play by the same rules and within the same
> >> limitations.

> >> It's quite clear that we all have *very* different views on racings and
on
> >> what's "allowed" and what's not - and this is *preciely* why we need a
set
> >> of rules!  Guidelines will not do the job.

> >Well, nobody wanted to call them "rules", and further, nobody appears to
> >want the job of stepping on peoples necks when they *** up.  I stepped
> >up to do it, and everyone reacted like I was the ***in anti-christ.

> >I've been suggesting that we have rules and closed membership for AT
> >LEAST 3 months. Again, nobody seemed interested.  Rules are useless if
> >we have open races that anyone can join (which is basically what we
> >have), becauyse the new guys can always beg off by whining about not
> >having seen any "rules".

> >About the forced***pit thing, it's IMPOSSIBLE to drive around watkins
> >glen or sears point safely AT ANY SPEED when your hood is pushed up
> >against your windshield.  On the other tracks, it's almost IMPOSSIBLE to
> >enter pit road safely because you can't see it coming.  Forced***pit
> >is NOT conducive to effective racing online.

Ed Solhei

RASCAR Coca Cola

by Ed Solhei » Tue, 23 Jul 2002 10:10:56

"Larry" said:

There no need to scan the replay.. nor any need for penalties afterwards...
Any given incident can be dealt with on track - IMHO.

I cannot understand this reluctancy to having a rulebook ??!!??
In my book we either have a set of rules or *anything goes* - there is no in
between. If we dont race by the same rules - which we all CLEARLY DON'T - we
will have yellow upon yellow flag...

The only reason things seem to get better is because there's fewer and fewer
drivers taking part. How do you all think the Coke-race would have been had
we been up to the "normal" field of 25-30 drivers?

--
ed_


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