rec.autos.simulators

--
Scott Moore
Western Dirt Racing Association
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Yep, me too. Happy to leave the losers to their online rF crash-fests.

I like your idea of a two-tier system... maybe something akin to "Pro
Series" - "Amateur Series"
( with differing and appropriate pricing models )

0-0-0-0-0

If they don't change that, membership will probably drop off, after the
novelty has worn, leaving only the select few to race in their own world,
without intervention from the commoner.

Alan

Many drivers are put off going online to find they are 8 seconds a lap
off the pace having driven successfully with the adjusted AI strength.

Trying to find a league of drivers with matching ability can be a matter
of luck.

Providing password protected races and getting groups of drivers to move
from an rFactor mod to an iRacing league won't do anything to develop
arrive & drive racing.

The question will be whether it can build up critical mass to have
sufficient drivers throughout the time zones to provide competitive
clean racing at any time. As the benefits will only be seen once a
driver has run sufficient races for the stats to build up.

So, yes, patience is potentially an issue!

Cheers
Tony

I run some races with the Megane mod last week and found the overall driving
standard to be so utterly appalling as to render the servers unraceable.

Until iRacing there was no where to go for people who wanted to experience a
realistic standard of driving from a field of on-line sim racers.

Anyway, Alan, I put it to you that it's the leagues that are exclusive and
elitist, not iRacing. Also, you keep banging on about wanting to race with
your buddies all the time, this doesn't happen in real life. When I raced
karts, we would just register for a race, turn up and not know a single
person. Not knowing anyone didn't detracted from the racing. If it does for
you, you'd best wrap yourself in your protective clique and hide their from
strange people.

I'm not ever going to challenge the likes of Huttu & co. at the sharp end
but I do like racing, and I like to be able to just hop in a race at a time
that's convenient for me and have a good experience.  To me that means 1) a
top notch, bug-free sim in terms of driving physics, graphics, and sound, 2)
close, competitive racing among clean, respectful drivers.  There are other
good sims with league or league-type racing, and I've been racing at R2P
(mostly w/GTR2) and enjoy it a lot; a good bunch of guys.  I don't really
look for iRacing to supply that sort of experience, at least not near-term.
After all, as yet iRacing doesn't offer features such as changeable weather,
tire/fuel strategy w/accelerated usage rates, plethora of tracks and
high-end cars.

But what I've found is that is does offer me very good odds of hopping in
any race that I've done just a little practice and a qualifying session for
during a week, and finding a group of drivers within tenths of my pace (esp.
on ovals, which have been a pleasant surprise) who are all going to be
driving hard but clean.  Mistakes happen, sure - I've made some myself.  But
I've seen zero wreckers or abusive behavior so far, which in my pickup
racing experience has about a 10-20% probability of happening at best.  And
along the way I've had some excellent races - wheel to wheel, pass and
repass, all race long without letup.  And have really enjoyed driving the
cars; I've bought some I can't race yet just to sample the faster ones, and
they are very good.  iRacing's tire model, at least in its limit behavior,
is just unparalleled in sims at the moment and the resulting FF is the same;
I've found myself laughing aloud sometimes at how good it is.  Same for the
tracks; they simply are the standard at the moment

The incident points thing appears to freak people out at first since they
haven't encountered such before, but it doesn't bug me at all.  Sure you get
annoyed when you get some points when someone tags you from behind or loses
it right in front of you, but guess what - as a result you end up driving
more like you would in a real car.  In a real car, you don't want to get
crashed even if it's not your fault, so you watch for potential external
risks more - it works the same in iRacing.  I don't worry at all about
getting a point or two for dropping a wheel now and then; I just look at
them as my crew chief cueing the mic and saying "Hey Sparky, we know you're
a hot rod and all, but watch you don't scratch my pretty car, ok?" ;-)

People who haven't driven them diss the included cars as well, but they are
trainers and they work as intended.  They teach you economy of line and
input since you have to preserve momentum in them.  And once you graduate to
the advanced versions, they are tweable for style and much more fun to
drive.  The advanced Legends car in particular is a blast; it's tiny and
light with a screaming 11,000 rpm superbike engine and a wheelbase about a
foot long so it's a twitchy, nervous little beast.  More fun than some of
the "higher end" cars, and and a real ball to drive on a road course; hope
to see some road events in these later.  (Hey, I've some youtube vids of
Kimi Raikonnen sporting around in one on a Swedish road course, so don't
laugh...  ;-))

While it wasn't for me, price can be a valid issue for some, and there are
at present limits on what you can do that may make it more sensible to hold
off if you don't see what you're looking for.  But I have zero doubts at
this point that I'll get every dime of my money's worth in enjoyment.

That's my $0.02.  Or more like $0.20 with the dollar being what it is!

And your example of this would be what?

I said that being able to drive with friends on your own server using a car
and track of your choosing is what is missing in iRacing, something which
should be automatic, given the cost.  Your example is coming from jumping on
a server with people you do not know.  We're not talking about the same
thing here.

I don't think so.  iRacing is NROS: racing for the rich, so to speak.  You
can have your "get off the track I'm better than you are" metality.  Keep to
your own kind is the way I see it, and I won't be bothered.

This is what I'd call silly.  Of course it happens.

I'll agree that the way they have iRacing set up is a good idea, in that you
race with those in your class.  But at the same time you might be in someone
else's class but not really in it, if you know what I mean.

In the end, besides snob condescension-- which happens everywhere, and is
likely to happen most when someone says it doesn't happen, that it's not
them-- my main argument was that iRacing, if they are going to charge the
money they are charging, should allow users some flexibility to race where,
when, and with whom they choose, outside of the league racing itself.

Alan

To simply become the defacto sim for leagues or private groups to jump
into does little for changing the genre.

Whether you buy into the sim racing sport concept or not the rethinking
of the pick up racing concept is innovative and has the potential to
develop sim racing.

I believe more and more drivers are coming around to the view that
iRacing will not replace existing sims but complement them. I don't
believe you have to sit in any one camp.

Cheers
Tony

It's not designed for league use, you know that. It designed to give people
who only have time to do pickup races or who don't like running a stuffy
leagues, a good racing experience, which they currently don't get. The cost
of the service is minimal, so stopped overegging your argument by saying it
isn't.

Anyway, you're a known whinger who spent many years moaning about GPL. The
iRacing community is better off without you.

Go ahead and give it a month. I was a fortunate recipient of an invitation,
for which I am very grateful. Sadly as the years of sim racing have gone by,
I find myself with less time to dedicate. It was thrilling to once again
make use of that glorious netcode. I have a profound appreciation for the
development of the product and figured 20 bucks was, in a way, a donation to
the many many hours of thrills with GPL and Nascar series. Perhaps when Dave
recoups the development expenses, one day he will again produce a stand
alone sim that I can shell out my 40- 50 bucks, and pop on occasionally for
a thrill. There is also a chance I'll come back to iR if I can find the time
and passion again. I have only been able to get on 2-3 times in as many
weeks. That's just not enough to warrant the expense.

I'm also watching the financial markets carefully. If this Fannie &
Freddie thing gets much worse the dollar could sink in value (again) and
make the iRacing subscription significantly cheaper. So while that might
not be very good for the USA's inflation numbers, it might help iRacing
numbers in Europe. Every cloud has a silver brake lining! :-)

Andrew McP

Alan

Me "moaning about GPL"?  I don't think you've labeled me right.  You're like
some maniac who witnesses a crime, and when the police come to ask the
maniac who did it, he points to a crowd of people and says, "That's him!"

I'm on the verge of killfiling you, as if you'd really care.  But I would.

Alan