rec.autos.simulators

I'm amazed that Mr. Crooke still derides FF technology!  While I
haven't driven any 600+ HP cars, I have done enough race driving to
know that using a racing simulation with a FF wheel is much closer to
reality than using a sim without FF.  I don't think it's even debatable
anymore.

There is nothing standing in the way of FF that exactly portrays
reality.  Forces generated by lateral force applied to mechanical and
pneumatic trail are surely being calculated in current sims.  Add in
forces caused by hitting bumps that are applied to the scrub radius,
and that's about all the feedback you'll get from the steering wheel of
a real car.

I also found the Andrew Winchester interview a little odd.  Me makes
clear that he isn't using a FF wheel, but then makes a big point of how
he can't feel how the car is handling as in real life.  For a few
dollars he could feel the car, instead of just watching it on the
screen.

Pat Dotson

tis a shame too.  I cant hardly stand to drive without it.

I am all set to break out the plastic and order a TSW2 Cup.  Problem is, I
just don't know if I can live without FF now.

When GPL first came out, I simply could not drive it.  I was off the track
in every corner no matter how hard I tried.

Then the FF patch came out, and, well, wow!  I could actually feel the
ass-end getting twitchy and compensate long before I was off the track.

Not that I didn't still suck at GPL.  I did.  At least I could make turns
now :)

Bear in mind, NR2003 FF effects do not thrill me that much.  There really
ain't much there to be honest.  The feel of the ass-end leaving is the best
I get out of it.  The rest really doesn't add up to much.

Viper Racing.  Now THERE was Force Feedback.

In a way I really wish Logitech had not pre-exposed their Vaporware (the
G25).  That's got my head all screwed up now.

-Larry

That said I can only wonder what we *COULD* have if Immersion Tech and its
hordes of patent lawyers/lobbyists werent able to effectively *** any
innovation of FF.  When was the last time Immersion actually updated the
API?  3-4 years ago or about the same time the (obnoxiously) broad patent
was granted to them IIRC.  Coincidence?

Don't we have any Patent Lawyers around here?

Mitch

The thing is, I imagine that NR2003 probably has the most realistic FF
seen in any sim to date.  It's probably precisely calculating the
naturally occuring steering column torque, and conveying that torque
accurately to the FF wheel.  The problem is, realistic steering column
torque doesn't tell you the whole story regarding the car's handling.
In comparison, rFactor's FF is not very 'realistic' because it conveys
more than just the steering forces.  It also conveys other handling
forces acting on the car.

If I'm perched on top of a motion platform, then all I need on the
steering wheel is the realistic steering forces.  I can feel the other
forces outside of the steering wheel.

On the other hand, if all I have between me and the sim is a CRT and a
force feedback wheel, I'll take the less realistic, more communicative
rFactor style of FF.  It does a better job of telling me what the car
is doing.  As a result, my sim-experience translates more directly to
RL when I get behind a real steering wheel.

Pat Dotson

Don McCorkle

Cheers, uwe

--
GPG Fingerprint:  2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F  67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

I keep looking at the drive belt leading to the steering damper on my ECCI
plus the remnants of 2 old FF wheels and think ...How difficult could it be?

Dave

Don McCorkle

All I really need right now, is the Ecci 3-pedal pedals they make now, setup
for my Sidewinder...  but they would not make a set for me, wish I still had
the email I got back.  And it is to many "hoops" to get 2 seperate
controllers to work in my Kid's games to do it differently.  when they had
the 2000 pedals (tractor pedals) they sold em wired for Sidewinders FWIW, I
wanted a clutch so I waited..

Woodie83 enlightened us with:

I agree 100%, I bought my first BRD wheel and pedals about six years
ago and I am so used to a wheel and pedal set-up that actually feels
like a real car, eg: heavy solid all metal construction, that I just
cannot get on with any cheap lightweight plastic set-ups, whether
they have FF or not!

The other thing to remember is that current FF only gives you
steering torque feedback, it "simulates" the feel of what the
wheels, tyres, etc are doing, but only through the steering column,
which is NOT what you feel in a real car.

In a real car you do of course get some feel through the steering
colum and wheel, but you also get lots of feedback through the
pedals, through the wheels and tyres, through the gear lever even!
and also through your whole body (esp your bum) whilst you are
sitting in the car.

So until you have a FF wheel, FF pedals and FF seat set-up, you aint
really got FF at all.....

8-)

*Peter* -  http://homepage.ntlworld.com/petergagg/

Bob Simpson