rec.autos.simulators

I think the developers are in Alaska, where there's nothing but Ice to drive
on.

-Larry

1. GPL
The physics are a bit outdated, but the game is so well balanced.
It still has the finest***pits/carmodels to date, IMO, thanks to
guys like the GPLEA. If you want to win from the AI, you've to work
for it, it took me months to win a race. Still playable online, and
mods are available for other F1 years, with 'corrected' physics.
Scores well on graphics/physics/sound/gameplay/replays.

2. RBR
It really gives you a feeling like you're driving a rally car. You
notice how fast you're driving, and I'm often scared of the speed,
feeling the need to lift. Not easy. The only downside is the fact you
don't race others, which got me bored after a while, once I knew the
stages.
Scores well on graphics/physics/sound/replays, less on gameplay after
a while

3.
ISI based sims (GTL/GTR2/rFactor)
I always have an hate/love relation with ISI based sims. The graphics
are great and still there is so much lacking. You can have great
dynamic lightning, shadows, cool refections on the car, and stuff like
that, but what's the point if the car doesn't seem to be connected to
the road?

The fact that the replay system isn't that nice doesn't help much
eighter. Online you don't see the suspension move of your opponents,
and the tyre smoke doesn't feel realistic.

The physics feel nice with a better tyremodel than GPL, but I've
always the feeling the car floats. It doesn't help that the controller
lags a bit. I also don't like the way the brakes behave when the disc
is hot, it's too much an on/off switch.

The AI is bad (rFactor), or not realistic(GTR2/GTL). They match their
speed on your pace, I always hate that. They also do things which
would get your licence pulled in real life. I don't like racing them.
I also don't like it you've to earn the cars, not all of us do've the
time to race severall hours a day to get the credits.

Online is a mixed bag. I only played rfactor online, and the problem
is that there are too many mods to get a lot of drivers using the mod
you like. Since there're so many mods, the quality of drivers is too
wide spread, with a small chance of racing a group of drivers evenly
matched.

So, what is the love part then... :-)  It's the immersion when you're
driving a car like the Saleen in GTR2 through Eau Rouge, it's the
sound, it's the modelling of weather, it's the F1 1979 Mod on Kyalami,
and it's the idea that all the problems I have could be fixed easily
with the next patch...but the latter thing is true for years with the
ISI sims, allthough I keep hoping.
Great on sound, mixed feelings with the rest.

4.
LFS
This is a good online racer, with decent
graphics/sounds/physics/replays and stuff. However, the mentallity
of other drivers is what kills it for me. I always compare it with
Quake on wheels, always expecting an headshot when exiting a turn.
Offline the AI is too dull, the same goes for the tracks.
Nice on Graphics/Sound/Physics/Replays, mixed feeling about gameplay.

5.
NetKar Pro
Driving a car in Netkar Pro, if you can get the car started :-/, is
the most realistic experience in a sim I have. The latest patch dumbed
it down somewhat (Grrr BRD), but it's still a great feeling.
Graphics/Sound/Physics, all great. But then, the gameplay...what
gameplay? There is no AI, no filled servers online. The only gameplay
there is, is an online league, but that doesn't help if it doesn't fit
your schedule.

It might improve someday, who knows...
Great on graphics/sound/physics, mediocre on replays, no gameplay.

Well, this is my top 5, for what's worth...

Cheers!

Remco

My choices are in no particular order as they all have good and bad
points.

GPL (Grand Prix Legends)

The Grandaddy of modern racing sims, yes its old, yes the graphics
are not the best, yes the physiocs are not the best, but..... When
you drive GPL, it just "feels" right. Based on the 1967 F1 cars,
which had no downforce, no aerodynamics, no wings, no slick tyres,
no electronics to help you drive the car, poor brakes, these cars
were hard to race in real life and this sim reflected that fact, but
keep practising and boy do you get rewarded. An absolute must have.
despite the fact that this sim is now approx 8 years old. On-line
racing is still a blast with this one too (via VROC) Seek it out and
buy it, get the car, track and graphics updates, and enjoy.

GTR2

An improvement over the first GTR, with great physics and graphics
(but needs a high spec pc) and good on-line racing.

GTL

A good retro racing sim / game, comparable with GTR2 (its from the
same makers) with similar physics, graphics, etc, but here you can
race older cars on older tracks in many different formulas. Good
on-line racing too.

TOCA 3

I've always liked the TOCA sim series, and this is the best yet, the
physics are not the best, but the graphics are great and the actual
racing is good close fun. You also have a large choice of cars,
track and formula's to choose from.

Colin McRae Rally 4  (CMR4) or Richard Burns rally (RBR)

I think these two are pretty equal in most respects and are probably
the best Rally racing sims out there.

8-)

*Peter* -  http://homepage.ntlworld.com/petergagg/

Do you know of a reputable place to purchase RBR in the US?  I just
checked Amazon and they offer a CD and DVD version (is it safe to
purchase the DVD version?) from a few websites that I've never heard
from.

Any way, I am going to cancel my long-time Amazon account soon as they
now all of a sudden  ship everything to me via DHL and DHL doesn't
deliver out here (at least on time!).  

-pw

AFAIR DVD version didn't require disk in the drive and CD version did. But
I'm not sure if it was media or if it depended on the country (and country
determined the media).

Alex.

Ed

IIRC in the latest patch (http://www.richardburnsrally.com/support.htm) the
copy protection was removed .

www.gogamer.com is outstanding and, as I recall, ships via FedEx.

That's where I got RBR

1) rFactor- has just about every car you can imagine to race. Probably the
most complete sim out to date.

2) NR2003- best NASCAR sim to date.

3) GTR2- probably the best driving physics in a sim.

4) GPL- dated, but still a charm. Once mastered nothing rewards the driver
more than actually racing for real.

5) F1 2002- easiest F1 sim out of all of, but still a lot of fun.

of course this is all subjective and just an opinon.

As far as I can tell, it doesn't have any sort of copy protection.  I don't
even remember specifying a key at install time.

-Larry

-Larry

-Larry

-Larry

Either your wheels aren't set up correctly for the sim, or you have bad
setups (or both).

If the cars feel like they are on ice, or not connected to the road, or
there isn't enough feedback, it isn't the sim, it's you. This isn't a matter
of personal feel or agreeing to disagree, but it's somehting that can be
easily be proven. I'm not blowing my own horn, but I have some of the
fastest times you'll find anywhere with the CTDP F1 mod. These F1 cars are
the perfect shoice to disprove what you claim because they have to be driven
exactly like the real drivers do in F1 or you lose massive amounts of time.
It is simply impossible to run a clean, realistic looking 118.3 at
Silverstone, 128.5 at Shakir, 111.4 at Montreal, 127.3 at Nuerburgring, or a
129.2 at Suzuka without being extremely precise. My replays look as if the
car is on rails, and there is no wild sawwing back and forth at the wheel.
Smooth and precise, and the car looks GLUED to the road because it's taken
to the very limit, but never over. That's the only way you can be fast. GPL
style driving will get you absolutely nowhere. Never in a million years
could anyone look at one of my replays and say it looks like I'm driving on
ice. No one could ever come close to those times in these F1 cars if the car
felt loose, and with little feedback. Can't be done. The amount of feedback
I get from the car is massive. Any tiny change in the setup and I can
instantly feel it.

Now how can I or anyone do those times, and they look like they do in
replays, if the sim feels and drives like you say?? It's impossible.

I don't know what wheels you use and what settings you've chosen in the
controller screen, but they've got to be wrong. The setups must be poor.
What's funny is that no one hates a loose feeling car more than me. If what
you guys say is true, I'd be the first one to delete rFactor from my hard
drive.

--
David G Fisher