rec.autos.simulators

by **Jeroe** » Tue, 26 Oct 1999 04:00:00

I've been playing (or should I say: trying to play) N3 for 4 weeks now. And
I just don't get into it. I can never keep up with the AI (at 99% or
higher). I want to like the game, but I just can't. By now I really hate
those stupid (small) circuits. It's all so slow. Dull. Boring. No sense of
speed whatsoever. Nascar 3 suck IMHO. I'm sure there are a lot of people out
there who feel the same way, but are afraid to tell! So if feel like me and
you're reading this, let me tell you, you are NOT a moron, stupid, crazy or
whatever. N3 just isn't everyone's cup of tea. I've had lot's of fun with
Grand Prix 1 (on the Atari!) and GP 2, F1RS, Toca 2 and of course a lot of
other arcade driving games (the Screamer series, the NFS games, Motorhead
(now there's speed!), and lately Midtown Madness and Driver (yeah, I know,
N3 lovers (and don't even mention GPL fanatics!) usually spit on these
games). I LIKE those games. I play them because they are fun. Aren't
computer games meant to be fun? I dont' know why I post this message. Maybe
I'm just fed up with the arrogant
'I'm-a-GPL-fanatic-and-you-suck-if-you-don't-like-sims' attitude. Or maybe
I'm trying to give hope to those people (like me) who post desperate
messages that they can't succeed in GPL or N3 (games are supposed to be
fun!). Or maybe I'd just like to get some opinions of other anti-N3 fellow
drivers, so I don't feel a failure and so alone in this newsgroup... Hm,
this message is getting out of hand. I didn't mean to sound so desperate.
Because I ain't. But I'll post it anyway. Let's see how long this thread
becomes :-)

Jeroen

P.S. I love Talladega though. At 99% AI. And realistic settings (wow!). It's
almost an arcade game: great fun and real speed! ;-)

by **Jalo** » Tue, 26 Oct 1999 04:00:00

out

In my opinion Nascar (in general) sucks. But thats just my opinion.

GPL is for hard core sim racers ONLY. There are programs to slow down the
AI, but it doesn't matter if you slow down the AI, if you can't stay on the
track without wiping out.
GPL has a great physics model, but the AI is on rails, and they will run
into you if you aren't careful. I think the reason Papy didn't make a easy
setting is because you'd see how poor the AI drives.
You are not alone. I enjoy GPL, but I also enjoy motorhead, NFS (although
the AI flat out cheats), and Monaco.

by **Lonnie Pac** » Tue, 26 Oct 1999 04:00:00

It seems to me from your description that you enjoy arcade style racing.
Nothing wrong with that at all. I enjoy Need for Speed once in awhile.
Problem is, this newsgroup is kind of devoted to simulations. People who
are into sims want things as close to real life as they can get it. I love
Nascar3, and don't care much for GPL, CART, F1, etc. Doesn't bother me that
people on all sides of racing genres badmouth each other either. Nascar
advocates think Formula 1, et al, amounts to a parade with no side by side
racing. Formula 1 folks think turning left all the time is stupid. Has a
lot to do with what you were raised on. Each type of racing has nuances
that have to be mastered to become any good at them. It all boils down to
different strokes for different folks.

by **Bob Curti** » Tue, 26 Oct 1999 04:00:00

You're not real. This is a joke, right? Tell me this is a joke.

> I've been playing (or should I say: trying to play) N3 for 4 weeks now. And
> I just don't get into it. I can never keep up with the AI (at 99% or
> higher). I want to like the game, but I just can't. By now I really hate
> those stupid (small) circuits. It's all so slow. Dull. Boring. No sense of
> speed whatsoever. Nascar 3 suck IMHO. I'm sure there are a lot of people out
> there who feel the same way, but are afraid to tell! So if feel like me and
> you're reading this, let me tell you, you are NOT a moron, stupid, crazy or
> whatever. N3 just isn't everyone's cup of tea. I've had lot's of fun with
> Grand Prix 1 (on the Atari!) and GP 2, F1RS, Toca 2 and of course a lot of
> other arcade driving games (the Screamer series, the NFS games, Motorhead
> (now there's speed!), and lately Midtown Madness and Driver (yeah, I know,
> N3 lovers (and don't even mention GPL fanatics!) usually spit on these
> games). I LIKE those games. I play them because they are fun. Aren't
> computer games meant to be fun? I dont' know why I post this message. Maybe
> I'm just fed up with the arrogant
> 'I'm-a-GPL-fanatic-and-you-suck-if-you-don't-like-sims' attitude. Or maybe
> I'm trying to give hope to those people (like me) who post desperate
> messages that they can't succeed in GPL or N3 (games are supposed to be
> fun!). Or maybe I'd just like to get some opinions of other anti-N3 fellow
> drivers, so I don't feel a failure and so alone in this newsgroup... Hm,
> this message is getting out of hand. I didn't mean to sound so desperate.
> Because I ain't. But I'll post it anyway. Let's see how long this thread
> becomes :-)

> Jeroen

> P.S. I love Talladega though. At 99% AI. And realistic settings (wow!). It's
> almost an arcade game: great fun and real speed! ;-)

--
Bob Curtin
Worcester Area Strategy & Tactics Exchange
http://www.tiac.net/users/ten10ths/
"If God had intended men to join the Army he would have given us green, baggy
skin"

by **Ronnie &Princess Bigwhi** » Tue, 26 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Why dont you just buy a playstation...way cheaper than a computer. :)

by **Jan Verschuere** » Wed, 27 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Jeroen,

I have watched you suffer for some time now. Allow me to ask you a question:
how long have you been driving Racing Sims?

If one's not naturally gifted (like myself, and, I'm afraid: you) it takes
an extra-ordinary amount of time to get anywhere near good. I'm at 2000
hours and counting and I haven't won in N3 or GPL (against max AI) yet. I do
own a couple of online victories in GPL (hard works pays off in consistency
;-)).

If you're in the early phase of your simracing "career" I see no reason for
you to torture yourself by playing GPL or going up against 99% AI in N3.
You've still got to train your senses into the suspension of disbelief
(totally tricking your body into feeling the car and the road instead of
being stationary in front of a monitor) which you will need to take these
simulated vehicles to the limit without actually overworking your virtual
tyres. You need to accumulate seat time and no way are you going to get
enough if you're not enjoying the experience.

Turn down the AI in N3 or go for an easier sim. GP2 is very configurable,
but ultimately does not allow one to totally drop steering help IMO. F1RS
and MGPRS (the Ubisoft ones) are good, but you can spend ages running into
brick walls if you get the setups wrong. ICR2 is a Papy product and so was /
is seriously hard core. However it has adjustable AI and therefore should
offer fewer difficulties than GPL. Winning on the ovals against the 100% AI
is perfectly feasable once you get used to their quircks.

Nascar is a very unfortunate sport to set out in. It takes a special mindset
not become impatient and extract the maximum from these machines (that
sticker on the cage is there for a very good reason). Us European road
racers think we have a patent on smooth. Us Europeans are WRONG... if you've
not come up through the dirt track ranks you're gonna have a hell of time
adjusting to Nascar (and roast a lot of tyres in the process). After driving
GPL (and I think I'm pretty smooth in that one) for a while I can't get into
N3 and run anywhere near competitively from the off.

Hope this helps or at least gets you thinking... there's already too many
people playing Need for Speed.

Jan.
----

by **Oli** » Wed, 27 Oct 1999 04:00:00

So in the future don't buy N4!
Anyway patience is the key here and why not lowering the AI then? I my self
enjoy racing N3 at 100% AI, and it's hard but the point is not to be 1st all
the time I'm happy when I get my lap back...
But if a game ain't fun for you just switch to something else... not
necessarily to another game...
Seen Revolt?

--
Oliver Nikolic
DP-MAX Computers
http://www.dp-max.co.yu/
BeoRocket Racing Team (retired)
http://www.beorocket.co.yu/

by **pez** » Wed, 27 Oct 1999 04:00:00

gp2, go to joystick options screen, you can turn off the steering help,
adjust the null zone(low figures are more realistic), turn off the speed
sensitivity (its a sliding scale, keep it at 0), and turn off the opposite
lock help, then you dont have any aids guiding you around....the phys in
this game is better then Nascar 3, wheelspin only occurs when the available
traction isnt enough to stop the wheels from spinning, unlike n3 where
70%throttle does the trick from stationary....

the phys for icr2 on non ovals is poor (but it is ok on the ovals)

pez

> Jeroen,

> I have watched you suffer for some time now. Allow me to ask you a
question:
> how long have you been driving Racing Sims?

> If one's not naturally gifted (like myself, and, I'm afraid: you) it takes
> an extra-ordinary amount of time to get anywhere near good. I'm at 2000
> hours and counting and I haven't won in N3 or GPL (against max AI) yet. I
do
> own a couple of online victories in GPL (hard works pays off in
consistency
> ;-)).

> If you're in the early phase of your simracing "career" I see no reason
for
> you to torture yourself by playing GPL or going up against 99% AI in N3.
> You've still got to train your senses into the suspension of disbelief
> (totally tricking your body into feeling the car and the road instead of
> being stationary in front of a monitor) which you will need to take these
> simulated vehicles to the limit without actually overworking your virtual
> tyres. You need to accumulate seat time and no way are you going to get
> enough if you're not enjoying the experience.

> Turn down the AI in N3 or go for an easier sim. GP2 is very configurable,
> but ultimately does not allow one to totally drop steering help IMO. F1RS
> and MGPRS (the Ubisoft ones) are good, but you can spend ages running into
> brick walls if you get the setups wrong. ICR2 is a Papy product and so was
/
> is seriously hard core. However it has adjustable AI and therefore should
> offer fewer difficulties than GPL. Winning on the ovals against the 100%
AI
> is perfectly feasable once you get used to their quircks.

> Nascar is a very unfortunate sport to set out in. It takes a special
mindset
> not become impatient and extract the maximum from these machines (that
> sticker on the cage is there for a very good reason). Us European road
> racers think we have a patent on smooth. Us Europeans are WRONG... if
you've
> not come up through the dirt track ranks you're gonna have a hell of time
> adjusting to Nascar (and roast a lot of tyres in the process). After
driving
> GPL (and I think I'm pretty smooth in that one) for a while I can't get
into
> N3 and run anywhere near competitively from the off.

> Hope this helps or at least gets you thinking... there's already too many
> people playing Need for Speed.

> Jan.
> ----

> > I've been playing (or should I say: trying to play) N3 for 4 weeks now.
> And
> > I just don't get into it. <snip>

by **pqt2** » Wed, 27 Oct 1999 04:00:00

DAMN!!!Who issued you common sense???Refreshing, Paul.

> It seems to me from your description that you enjoy arcade style racing.
> Nothing wrong with that at all. I enjoy Need for Speed once in awhile.
> Problem is, this newsgroup is kind of devoted to simulations. People who
> are into sims want things as close to real life as they can get it. I love
> Nascar3, and don't care much for GPL, CART, F1, etc. Doesn't bother me that
> people on all sides of racing genres badmouth each other either. Nascar
> advocates think Formula 1, et al, amounts to a parade with no side by side
> racing. Formula 1 folks think turning left all the time is stupid. Has a
> lot to do with what you were raised on. Each type of racing has nuances
> that have to be mastered to become any good at them. It all boils down to
> different strokes for different folks.

> > I've been playing (or should I say: trying to play) N3 for 4 weeks now.
> And
> > I just don't get into it. I can never keep up with the AI (at 99% or
> > higher). I want to like the game, but I just can't. By now I really hate
> > those stupid (small) circuits. It's all so slow. Dull. Boring. No sense of
> > speed whatsoever. Nascar 3 suck IMHO. I'm sure there are a lot of people
> out
> > there who feel the same way, but are afraid to tell! So if feel like me
> and
> > you're reading this, let me tell you, you are NOT a moron, stupid, crazy
> or
> > whatever. N3 just isn't everyone's cup of tea. I've had lot's of fun with
> > Grand Prix 1 (on the Atari!) and GP 2, F1RS, Toca 2 and of course a lot of
> > other arcade driving games (the Screamer series, the NFS games, Motorhead
> > (now there's speed!), and lately Midtown Madness and Driver (yeah, I know,
> > N3 lovers (and don't even mention GPL fanatics!) usually spit on these
> > games). I LIKE those games. I play them because they are fun. Aren't
> > computer games meant to be fun? I dont' know why I post this message.
> Maybe
> > I'm just fed up with the arrogant
> > 'I'm-a-GPL-fanatic-and-you-suck-if-you-don't-like-sims' attitude. Or maybe
> > I'm trying to give hope to those people (like me) who post desperate
> > messages that they can't succeed in GPL or N3 (games are supposed to be
> > fun!). Or maybe I'd just like to get some opinions of other anti-N3 fellow
> > drivers, so I don't feel a failure and so alone in this newsgroup... Hm,
> > this message is getting out of hand. I didn't mean to sound so desperate.
> > Because I ain't. But I'll post it anyway. Let's see how long this thread
> > becomes :-)

> > Jeroen

> > P.S. I love Talladega though. At 99% AI. And realistic settings (wow!).
> It's
> > almost an arcade game: great fun and real speed! ;-)

by **Mtb70** » Wed, 27 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Like anything else in life it takes time, I started N1 at 75% but when I
stopped driving N2/99 I was beating ai at 107% at Bristol, now thats fun.

Uhh, did I just say Bristol? not nearly as boring as one line drafting at
Talledega

All driving games are fun, just different.
Of course I am biased, I only drive GPL.
JM

by **Y.Minam** » Wed, 27 Oct 1999 04:00:00

OK. What sims do they have better AI than GPL? Let me know.
Of course it's inferior to good human racers, but I think
one of the best AI.
Are you "crying for the moon"? =)

Y.Minami

by **Jan Verschuere** » Wed, 27 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Sigh... I should have known.

YES, you can turn it off, it's just, IMO, you can't really do without. The
game's response is not precise and consistent enough, again IMO.

Jan.
----

> gp2, go to joystick options screen, you can turn off the steering help,
> adjust the null zone(low figures are more realistic), turn off the speed
> sensitivity (its a sliding scale, keep it at 0), and turn off the opposite
> lock help, then you dont have any aids guiding you around....the phys in
> this game is better then Nascar 3, wheelspin only occurs when the
available
> traction isnt enough to stop the wheels from spinning, unlike n3 where
> 70%throttle does the trick from stationary....

> the phys for icr2 on non ovals is poor (but it is ok on the ovals)

> pez

> > <snip>

by **Jan Verschuere** » Wed, 27 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Well, once you've mastered something it becomes difficult to imagine how
troublesome the learning process can be.

I too find it very hard to believe how little progress Jeroen has made, but
as he's new to the game (and, I think, to Nascar), we should allow time for
him to learn and develop his skills. Meanwhile, we should make sure he
doesn't become disheartened.

The "simulation scene" being as it is, I don't think we can afford to scare
off new people getting into the sport.

Jan.
----

> You're not real. This is a joke, right? Tell me this is a joke.

> > <snip>
> --
> Bob Curtin
> Worcester Area Strategy & Tactics Exchange
> http://www.tiac.net/users/ten10ths/
> "If God had intended men to join the Army he would have given us green,
baggy
> skin"

by **Morgan V** » Wed, 27 Oct 1999 04:00:00

You're not a failure. I'm slow in N3 as well. At least on a lot of tracks. My
only real achievement is getting a 171 once at Darlington. Mostly I'm in the
low 170's there. Any looser a car and I can't manage traffic. Anyway... I hate
arcade racers... they're fun for the first hour or so, but the fun quickly
fades... they're just too shallow.

On the other hand I'm not the type of individual who has the patience to spend
three or four hours straight on a track trying to unlock it's secrets and find
the perfect lap time. A lot of folks do that and any praise they receive from
other sim-heads is certainly deserved, but for those of us that just like to
run the tracks rather than memorizing every pebble in the virtual asphault all
that practice just becomes an excercise in boredom and frustration.

What I do is run the tracks I like best; I never play seasons, BTW. I do
practice sessions with the AI cars and when I'm having fun I may spend up to
half an hour or so. I check out my best *consistent* laptimes. I then turn up
or down the RELS setting in the corresponding track text file; I never touch
the Opponent Strength setting in the race weekend menu. It's always 100%. I
adjust the RELS so that I'm competitive. That's all. If I can run consistent
low 170's at Darlington, then I want the fastest cars running low 171's or so
with me perhaps in the fastest part of the middle of the field. That's
realistic. As long as I can hang with traffic (no easy feat at Darlington, I
might add :) then I'm doing well. If I don't win, f*ck it. Jarrett hasn't won
every race this season either, but he's still way ahead in the points.

The whole point is just to have fun. I've found that one way ruining the fun is
judging myself against others. That's the best way to ruin just about anything.
I even quit programming a year or so ago because I used to judge myself against
what other programmers were doing. That's one bit of advice I can pass along,
because it seems that that's what you're doing. Don't worry about others,
whether it's their laptimes or what they may think of you not liking GPL and
N3.

Err... hmmm... feels like I'm writing an essay at this point... Jeezzusss...
well, anyway, just f*ckin' have fun don't f*ckin' worry alright? Great! Later!

> I've been playing (or should I say: trying to play) N3 for 4 weeks now. And
> I just don't get into it. I can never keep up with the AI (at 99% or
[]
> Because I ain't. But I'll post it anyway. Let's see how long this thread
> becomes :-)

> Jeroen

> P.S. I love Talladega though. At 99% AI. And realistic settings (wow!). It's
> almost an arcade game: great fun and real speed! ;-)

--
-----------------------------------+----------------------------------

ICQ #: 18197225 | http://members.xoom.com/morganv/
-----------------------------------+----------------------------------

by **Morgan V** » Wed, 27 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Viper racing. SCGT AI is pretty good, but does exhibit some problems, like if
you stop right in front of them they'll sometimes stop as well and wait for a
little bit for you to go. No racecar driver is gonna do that. Yeah, Viper and
SCGT is very good. No rails, cars actually bounce and move realistically, and
they frequently make mistakes.

> OK. What sims do they have better AI than GPL? Let me know.
> Of course it's inferior to good human racers, but I think
> one of the best AI.
> Are you "crying for the moon"? =)

> Y.Minami

--
-----------------------------------+----------------------------------

ICQ #: 18197225 | http://members.xoom.com/morganv/
-----------------------------------+----------------------------------

rec.autos.simulators

Nascar 3 sucks

Nascar 3 sucks

Nascar 3 sucks

Nascar 3 sucks

Nascar 3 sucks

Nascar 3 sucks

Nascar 3 sucks

Nascar 3 sucks

Nascar 3 sucks

Nascar 3 sucks

Nascar 3 sucks

Nascar 3 sucks

Nascar 3 sucks

Nascar 3 sucks

Nascar 3 sucks

Nascar 3 sucks