rec.autos.simulators

by **Jeroe** » Wed, 27 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Nice to see all those different reactions! :-)
Jan: I've been playing racing games since 1989. So I don't consider myself a
newbie! I don't think I have ever played a game as much and for so long as
Grand Prix (1) on my Atari 1024 ST, which was considered the sim of sims at
that time. As someone said: arcade games are fun, but after seeing the
beautiful graphics for a few laps and unlocking everything there is to unlock,
the fun is usually over. Nice for a ride every now and then, but not something
you play every day. This year I played a lot of Toca 2 (sim or arcade...?). At
first I couldn't finish a single lap but after some practice I became pretty
good (I'd like to think that anyway :-). And now the game is SO easy.
Incredible. But still fun (specially when running an (offline) championship:
became nr. 2 twice in the final standings!). Anyway, in the past 10 years I
mastered every game I played. Except Nascar 3. That's what got me frustrated.
But not too much, really. As I said, I wasn't as desperate as I sounded in my
first message: I also liked to see what reactions a message titled 'Nascar 3
sucks' would get :-) The funny thing is, I keep on coming back to N3, because I
WANT to get it under control. And I guess that's what makes a game good... I
think it's indeed time to relax and enjoy the game, instead of trying to be as
good as everyone else is/seems to be! Maybe that way I will finally make some
progress. And if not: who cares, as long as I have fun!

Jeroen

P.S. Don't flame me when I'll post another frustrated message tonight, after
being kicked off the tracked once again ;-)

by **Jalo** » Wed, 27 Oct 1999 04:00:00

I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but I feel the AI is better is
MGPRS2. They are not as fast as the AI in GPL, but they will not slam into
the back of your car at every turn. The AI in MGPRS2 also will not slam into
you if you are trying to pass and the racing line crosses under your car,
like the AI in GPL. Also the AI will pull over for you if you lap them in
MGPRS2 (as they as supposed to do, by current rules). Basicly I feel the AI
is more aware of whats around them in MGPRS2.

by **Peter Nilss** » Wed, 27 Oct 1999 04:00:00

I have my doubts on the Viper Racing AI...
When you get taken out by an AI car approcahing you from the rear
quarter, he's on the outside, plenty of spare room in the turn and
they just give you a light *tap* on the bumper and off the track you
fly! Maybe they're not stupid, just MEAN!!! :-)

/petern

>Viper racing. SCGT AI is pretty good, but does exhibit some problems, like if
>you stop right in front of them they'll sometimes stop as well and wait for a
>little bit for you to go. No racecar driver is gonna do that. Yeah, Viper and
>SCGT is very good. No rails, cars actually bounce and move realistically, and
>they frequently make mistakes.

>> OK. What sims do they have better AI than GPL? Let me know.
>> Of course it's inferior to good human racers, but I think
>> one of the best AI.
>> Are you "crying for the moon"? =)

>> Y.Minami

by **Jan Verschuere** » Wed, 27 Oct 1999 04:00:00

They're a bit on the wussy side, but they're ok, I agree.

The AI in GPL doesn't hit me from behind much nowadays, since I learned how
to set brake balance and perform the act of braking properly. But it has
taken me nearly a year, so...

Jan.
----

by **Jan Verschuere** » Wed, 27 Oct 1999 04:00:00

That's more like it. However, the opposite now applies. A simracer of your
experience level should have made more progress in the game by now(unless
you just don't get it... in wich case a serious amount of surfing Nascar
simulation related sites is in order).

My advise: Have a qualified person (or do it yourself, if you're qualified)
make an indepth technical inspection of your racing setup (wheel /
gamecard). I "inexplicably" lost speed in GPL a while back (unfortunately it
coincided with the 1.1 release which made me suspect a timing bug at first).
Turns out I had a calibration problem with my throttle which only gave me
like 93% full throttle in the sim. That translates to a full second at the
Glen....

Jan.
----

by **Jeroe** » Wed, 27 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Exactly! That's what I thought too! And that's why I was frustrated
yesterday!
Did two races tonight. I learned 2 things: short races aren't Nascar races
and you need patience. You need time and patience to plan every action: a 10
or 20 lap race isn't even enough to get the wheels at the right temperature.
So now I tried some 25% races, one at Bristol (of all small places!), 124
laps, and one at Indianapolis, 40 laps. AI at a comfortable 98%, 24 cars
participating and damage to arcade (so I had a change to finish the race and
get some experience...). Started at the back of the grid to get some more
experience with the car beside car action. The Bristol race I ended up 11th
(yep, I didn't crash, not really bad anyway) and at Indy I won. Became nr. 1
after 30 laps. Both races ended with (one or two) tires in the yellow
(specially Bristol): I still haven't found out how to stop the tires from
screeching... At Indy the 98% AI was very clear: during the middle of the
race I was MUCH faster. And in the end I became very slow, but they didn't
(dare to?) overtake me: I could block them far too easily. In real life I
would have been passed by half the pack, I think. Anyway, the most important
thing is: I had fun! Most N3 fanatics will laugh at my results, using the
above mentioned settings, but I had a good time and a great race. So there
is still hope for me :-)

I wish N3 had more controller options (like there are in Toca 2: N3 is VERY
basic in this regard). For instance, I'd like to change the settings for
full deflection (changing this in Toca seemed to improved my times a little,
so there might indeed be a problem there). I have a Thrustmaster GrandPrix 1
wheel. Maybe I might try the Papyrus driver instead of the DirectX one.
Don't know what the difference is though...

Well, that was a lot typing. Once again. Seems like I spend more time
talking about N3 than playing it :-)
BTW About your 'surfing Nascar simulation related sites' remark: could you
advice some sites with good advice?

Jeroen

by **Gamer Ma** » Wed, 27 Oct 1999 04:00:00

There you go. If it's fun for you, who's to say whether that's wrong
or right? You paid for the game and it's your right to play it the way
you choose.

Gamer Man

by **Morgan V** » Wed, 27 Oct 1999 04:00:00

I was irritated by that for a long while until I realized that real drivers do
sometimes do that. Maybe they are mean. ;)

> I have my doubts on the Viper Racing AI...
> When you get taken out by an AI car approcahing you from the rear
> quarter, he's on the outside, plenty of spare room in the turn and
> they just give you a light *tap* on the bumper and off the track you
> fly! Maybe they're not stupid, just MEAN!!! :-)

> /petern

--
-----------------------------------+----------------------------------

ICQ #: 18197225 | http://members.xoom.com/morganv/
-----------------------------------+----------------------------------

by **Christer Andersso** » Wed, 27 Oct 1999 04:00:00

That's probably a hardware problem, Jan. I used to go 100% races in GP2 with
no helps or aids whatsoever without having any trouble steering. I remember
once doing a 100% race at Aida in an offline league without doing any driver
errors at all, and... I beat Ian Lake in that race :o))), with three seconds
I think it was :o).

/Christer

>Sigh... I should have known.

>YES, you can turn it off, it's just, IMO, you can't really do without. The
>game's response is not precise and consistent enough, again IMO.

>Jan.
>----

>> gp2, go to joystick options screen, you can turn off the steering help,
>> adjust the null zone(low figures are more realistic), turn off the speed
>> sensitivity (its a sliding scale, keep it at 0), and turn off the
opposite
>> lock help, then you dont have any aids guiding you around....the phys in
>> this game is better then Nascar 3, wheelspin only occurs when the
>available
>> traction isnt enough to stop the wheels from spinning, unlike n3 where
>> 70%throttle does the trick from stationary....

>> the phys for icr2 on non ovals is poor (but it is ok on the ovals)

>> pez

>> > <snip>

by **Tim (fusio** » Thu, 28 Oct 1999 04:00:00

>I too find it very hard to believe how little progress Jeroen has made, but
>as he's new to the game (and, I think, to Nascar), we should allow time for
>him to learn and develop his skills. Meanwhile, we should make sure he
>doesn't become disheartened.

He said he's playing at 99% AI. If he gets disheartened, it's not
really the games fault.

I generally agree with his summation, though.
I'm tired of N3 after a very short time, and back to Viper, SODA and
SCGT. Most of the new "arcade" racers have more realistic vehicle
dynamics than this "sim".

Tim

by **Jan Verschuere** » Thu, 28 Oct 1999 04:00:00

There is nothing funny about a good result, at whatever settings. Like I
said, I cannot beat the 100% AI, I don't even think I could see off most of
the 98% AI in a short race. The people who are REALLY good at Nascar sims,
haven't spend any time messing about with the various road racing / rally
sims we've been sidetracked by. Practise, practise and then practise some
more is the deal here.

Nascar 3 (like it's predecessors) is rather basic in the controller
department. However, I, to date, have also been using my TM wheel to race it
and have had my usual level of success (none ;-)). The part of 10's is the
turn-in... the correct way of easing out of the throttle and onto the brake
(if applicable) while turning in is hard to explain. It's one of those
"you'll know it once you do it"-deals like keeping the car "on the tyres"
when launching in GPL. Whether you right- or left-foot brake or, in your
case, whether or not you brake against partial engine power doesn't really
enter the equation (some might argue this... I don't care: I see no evidence
to support either).

The Papy driver won't make much difference (apart from slowing response up
if you have a digital gameport).

As for the URL's : unfortunately not, unless I repeat the exercise myself. I
had a HD-crash early september. No biggie... I had back-ups of nearly
everything... except a recent back-up of my favourites folder. Most of the
GPL stuff I sorta knew by reference (IE where to find the link again), but
the Nascar stuff is history. I also rescued a lot of stuff form my PC at
work, but again, as games pages have a pretty heavy graphic content (my work
PC is a P100 with the most god-awfull videocard), none of that stuff was
mirrored there (it is now!!).

If I remember correctly I started at "The Oval Office" (can't find that URL
anymore) and Nascar Racing Sims : http://www.nascar-racing-sims.com/

Jan.
----

by **ymenar** » Thu, 28 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Ouch, your talking about the blue-flag-problem-MGPRS2-AI ?

Still, I find them AI quite wuss, not really aggressive, and when they are
aggressive it's in a quite dumb and dangerous way.

But hey, there's no AI that is good for me. Humans are the future of
simracing.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

by **skot** » Thu, 28 Oct 1999 04:00:00

On Wed, 27 Oct 1999 01:08:21 +0200, "Jan Verschueren"

>If I remember correctly I started at "The Oval Office" (can't find that URL
>anymore) and Nascar Racing Sims : http://www.nascar-racing-sims.com/

>Jan.

The Oval Office:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/bcranston/

Skotty Flynn

webmaster - http://www.nascar-racing-sims.com
"skotty" on WON

by **Dwayne & Julie Whit** » Thu, 28 Oct 1999 04:00:00

quityer***in

> >I've been playing (or should I say: trying to >play) N3 for 4 weeks now. And
> >I just don't get into it. I can never keep up >with the AI (at 99% or
> >higher).

> Like anything else in life it takes time, I started N1 at 75% but when I
> stopped driving N2/99 I was beating ai at 107% at Bristol, now thats fun.

> >By now I really hate
> >those stupid (small) circuits. It's all so >slow. Dull. Boring. No sense of
> >speed whatsoever

> Uhh, did I just say Bristol? not nearly as boring as one line drafting at
> Talledega

> All driving games are fun, just different.
> Of course I am biased, I only drive GPL.
> JM

by **Jan Verschuere** » Thu, 28 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Thank you!

Jan.
----

<snip>

> The Oval Office:
> http://www3.sympatico.ca/bcranston/

> Skotty Flynn

> webmaster - http://www.nascar-racing-sims.com
> "skotty" on WON

Nascar 3 sucks