rec.autos.simulators

I'm Considering buying a F1 Sim. Any opinions as to the best. I have a
P166 with a 3DFX card.

Well, for the time being, the jury's still out on this issue...Most
would probably tell you to buy GP2 (apparently the sim won't be
available after the first of the year due to FOCA lisence issues),
while the new Ubi Soft F1RS looks very promissing (great 3Dfx
graphics).

Since F1RS is brand new, and the fact that GP2's future looks
glum, I would recommend (strongly!) to buy GP2 now, and then
buy F1RS when you're ready.  Both have their flaws, but both
excel in their own right.

For more info on GP2, visit Pieter's GP2 page:

    http://www.volftp.vol.it/GP2/

For more info on F1RS, visit the Unofficial F1RS page:

    http://www.f1racingsim.com

...and Ubi Soft:

    http://www.ubisoft.com

Cheers!

Marc J. Nelson
Sim Racing Online / Sim Racing News / The Sim Project
http://members.aol.com/simracing

GP-2 many people will say. BUT but there's the fact GP-2 is around for quite
a while now, everyone (sort of) is a crack at a decent setup, they know
where to brake, where to clip the corner, where to pass. Carhandling we're
all familiarized with so people will say get GP-2.

NOT me.

Yes, I love GP-2.

But UbiSoft's F1 Racing Simulation IMO is on par with GP-2 and more likely
BETTER. Why will people doubt that? Because it's so NEW. No one yet fully
grasps the setup functions which act different than in GP-2.

Then there is the fact, it drives VERY sensitive. With F-1RS prepare to spin
around a lot when jumping straight into realistic mode.

Your system is the same basically as mine so you'd be able to run a smooth
race with F-1 RS.

GP-2 for that matter has JERK-O-VISION in a pile up. Have not seen that in
F-1RS.

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Jammer (UK)

Just out is F1 Racing Simulator by Ubisoft, which seems to be very
competent, but as it's still very new, there hasn't been any long term
testing of it yet, But I have it, and it's pretty good IMO? and it has
3Dfx support.

There are a few other F1 titles out there, but most are *arcade* type
racing games rather than sims, probably the best of these is Formula
1, by Psygnosis (another 3Dfx title).

To get the best from GP2 you really need a ninja pc, there are reports
that even pII 300's cannot run GP2 at full frame rate with full
graphics, (Although I manage just fine with a K6 200?). GP2 does not
have 3Dfx support either?

So if you want tried and tested, but no 3Dfx, go for GP2. If you want
the newest with 3Dfx support, go for F1 Racing Simulator by ubisoft,
and if you want *arcade* go for Formula 1. (all require ninja pc's,
your 166 should do for now though?)

d:?)

* Peter *  8-)   Please remove asterix from address to email.

Good advice was given !

F1RS and GP2 (Nothing can touch these two)

John Cookson (Canada)

I presume that Mr Hawnt hasn't tried F1RS, as it is probably superior to
GP2, and is in NO WAY an arcade game. (Is he talking about Psygnosis F1?)
After over a week of F1RS, I am just getting used to the effect of different
setups as it is very different from GP2, and it is superb. GP2 has finally
met its match.
and oh by the way, the graphics aren't bad either!

I have F1RS too.
Well, I am no setup expert, but I know what that settings mean and how
they afect the car (well, most of them), and was able to do 1.16.1xx
at Monaco training mode in just 1 or 2 hours of practise (what I think is
a WR so far). I needed about 20h to get 1.11.3xx in monaco with GP2 (WR).
Also, F1 car feels a lot different in F1RS then in GP2(better in GP2). I
don't know how to describe it, you would have to try it out :)

The setting up a car is also much different in F1RS than in GP2. F1RS
uses % istead of numbers ans I find it quite confusing comparing to GP2,
but a big PLUS is that F1RS has a good documentation about setting up a
car, and also has some explanations on how to take different type of
corners.

Another big difference is that tou can't drive F1RS with plankwear like
in GP2. In GP2 if you drove with plankwear (quals) there was no influence
on the car's speed. If you try in in F1RS it slows you down a lot :)

TRUE.

I would agree if you would say a smooth practise (not race). I have cyrix
P166+, 32 EDO RAM and 3Dfx card. When I practise I get awesome frame
rates, but when I start the race with 22 opponents ( all details off, the
shortest view distance) I get maye 10 frames from 22nd position on the
grid to the first corner - very very slow. I haven't managed yet to come
in one piece throug the 1st corner :(

But I think it should run well on over-clocked 200MMX or  233MMX.

Tadej

I agree 100%

KREVH TADEJ heeft geschreven in bericht ...

Ahem. I've got a P-166, 32Mb of Edo ram and a good video-card 1Mb Trident
PCI and with all details on, GP-2 gives me 10.6 FPS in SVGA. I find that
still rather depressing.

That wasn't really big back then, round and about the time GP-2 was
released, the boom in networking really got of the ground.

I disagree about the feeling. There's a lot of jerking at the steering wheel
you can do in GP2 without havingt he car spin, in F1 RS, you really need to
keep your wits about. Like in a real F-1 car.

And that 1.16.xxx, which mode was that? Easy or realistic? Amateur, Expert,
Pro? Steering help, anti spin, anti skid?

Right. The setupmenus are really way different. I still haven't figured out
how to translate the GP2 setup to a F1RS setup, except wings.

Yes. Gues they read the GP2 setup guide from John Wallace while making the
manual.

Not true. You wear that plank far enough >1 cm, your topspeed drops by 10 to
20 Km/H. Which is totally unrealistic. If your car starts skimming the
surface you ARE going to loose speed pronto.

Another good speed reduction in F1 RS as opposed to GP-2 are the
graveltracks. I can drive full speed into boarding in GP-2 while racing
through gravel-traps. If I accidentally have my tire touch the gras, dirt or
gravel in F1 RS, the car slows down dramatically.

Enter the need for a good setup.

what 3DFX card do you have? I've got a Monster 3D non overclocked and while
there have been maybe 2 or 3 hickups so far, the races run fine whatever my
position ranging from pole to 22nd.

Strange. Though I must state the Monster 3D is one GOOD 3DFX card. Maybe not
THE best, but top 3 at least.

Oh yeah. And GP-2 will get me 20FPS on that system. :-)

Look. I'm not ready to bash GP2 since it was my first F-1 sim. If I wanna
bash something, let us talk Psygnosis F-1. CRAP.

However, GP2 has pauses in flow when there's crash with a lot of cars
involved.

Further, it has so unrealistic rules, 10 second slowdown really doesn't
work.

Next, the graphics are nice for their date. Granted, it was tops then and
rates good today, but you can't tell me the trees look better in GP2 than in
F1RS, the scenery is just so well detailed in F1RS. (Read other post about
Buenos Aires.)

IF, since I'm not convinced there is really a GP3 being developped, this GP3
is released, I'll accept it with an open mind off course.

But for now, my choice if F1RS.

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Flush The Seatbelt! Ekul in Sraw Rats
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sticks and stones CAN break my bones!
Anonymous Stormtrooper on Endor.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
1/35 Panther Ausf. F under construction
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.herbert.demon.nl
http://www.macross.org/trooper
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Alternatively try a branch of Game Ltd (UK) because they will take a game
back merely on your word that you can't get it to run properly. For piece
of mind, arm yourself with a printout of the FAQ from the F1RS's web site
that admitts to the bugs.
I've taken two or three buggy/crappy games back to Game Ltd with no
problem.
Unfortunately I took F1RS back to the shop because I was one of those many
people who could not get it to run without severe grahics bugs, controller
problems etc etc. Shame really.:-(. It seems that even if you get it to run
then then it is almost certain that it will crash ( not the car - the PC)
at some crucial stage of the race in a championship).
What we need is a chain of computer shops that have every chart game
installed on a PC in the shop ready to run. PC magazines help by giving us
the demos on their cover disks.
I can't count the number of potentially good demos I've tried but found
that they run slow or are just plain ***(allowing for "demo status").
Straying of the point a little but is'nt it amazing how many games
publishers shoot themselves in the foot with rubbishy demos (or good demos
of rubbishy games! :-))

---- Happy racing to all -------

---------------snip----------------

Good video card? A Trident 1mb? You must be joking mate.
A fast 2mb card is condisered the bare minimum these days and 4mb (SDRAM or
VRAM - not DRAM) being more the norm. Try a good brand name like Matrox,
Orchid, Diamond etc.
No wonder you are only getting 10.6 FPS. You'll double that with a good
card even with most of the detail turned on in SVGA (it helps to just have
the essential detail in the mirros though).
Go on, treat yourself to a better video card. You'll enjoy GP2 so much
more.

Also, I don't know why people whine about the 25fps limit. When you got the
the movies you view them as they are filmed - at 25fps -  and they look
pretty realistic to me. Or maybe I'm off the plot here. :-)

--Happy racing--

A good video card is a pretty good idea, since a Trident 1 megger
couldn't cut it even then. It won't make an iota of difference to GP2
though (well, perhaps one iota, but no more than two). GP2 is ruled by
the CPU and the textures requested, so turning turn off all the
textures and see if it improves. If it does, add back the ones you
want one at a time until you maintain a frame-rate you can live with.
The biggest killers are big textures like grass and road, and the
trees at Hockenheim, Monza and the like - you need to use Alt-D to get
rid of those.

Incidentally GP2's frame-rate estimates can be quite far out, so don't
trust what you're told on that screen. Take it out to the track and
check the occupancy ("O" key) to get a better idea. You should be at
100% or less as much of the time as possible.

Cheers!
John

PS - FWIW DRAM will outperform dual-ported VRAM in a game like GP2,
all other things being equal. Stick with MDRAM, 40ns EDO or the like.