rec.autos.simulators

GPL times...whats your take?

Schlom

GPL times...whats your take?

by Schlom » Tue, 22 Dec 1998 04:00:00

I was just looking at the most recent times for hotlaps and was wondering
something.  At almost everytrack it seems that there is at least one time
faster than the real fast lap from ' 67.  The exception being the Ring.  The
actual fast time came from Jim Clark at 8:04.1 and the fatsest lap ive seen on
the board is a 8:05.xx.  Anyone think a sub 8 minute lap is possible here.  I
think it is but it might be a long time coming.  Just curious as to what some
other people think.

Chris

SteveBla

GPL times...whats your take?

by SteveBla » Tue, 22 Dec 1998 04:00:00

I'd say it's because of the nature of the challenge.  The real drivers could no
doubt have gone quicker with a multitude of instant mouse-activated setup
changes, zillions of laps to dial the cars in, and oh yeah, no fear of death!
So the times on most courses in the game are more physics-defined.   The 'Ring
is more of a memorization problem.  If all the turns on the ring were getting
taken as close to the limit as the ones at say, Zandvoort or Monza, sub-eights
would be no sweat.  Hell, maybe sub-sevens.  Not by me, though.  I focus MY
feeble mind on the simpler courses and save the ring for scenic cruises and
just scaring myself silly flying down those long hills......

Steve B.

remove "edy" from address for email

Graeme Nas

GPL times...whats your take?

by Graeme Nas » Tue, 22 Dec 1998 04:00:00

I think sub-seven-minute laps are a possibility for the really quick
guys out there like Wolfgang Woeger, Ian Lake, and now maybe Sasa
Mencinger. They have been turning some amazing laps recently and I'm
sure one if not all of them could do it. (I personally have never driven
the Ring in anything other than a Ferrari and my PB now stands at 8m18).

Cheers!
--
Graeme Nash


http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk

ICQ# 11257824

T.Galvi

GPL times...whats your take?

by T.Galvi » Tue, 22 Dec 1998 04:00:00

  Im sure you will see a sub 8 minute lap within 3 weeks, when the GPL world
series races the ring. Wolfgang, Lake and Sandman will have a whole week
prior of nothing but driving around there in training mode looking for every
tenth they can find.

  Todd.


>I was just looking at the most recent times for hotlaps and was wondering
>something.  At almost everytrack it seems that there is at least one time
>faster than the real fast lap from ' 67.  The exception being the Ring.
The
>actual fast time came from Jim Clark at 8:04.1 and the fatsest lap ive seen
on
>the board is a 8:05.xx.  Anyone think a sub 8 minute lap is possible here.
I
>think it is but it might be a long time coming.  Just curious as to what
some
>other people think.

>Chris

Michae

GPL times...whats your take?

by Michae » Tue, 22 Dec 1998 04:00:00

That will be very interesting to see - the main problem with the Ring as I
see it isn't the memorization of the track, but the sheer length of the
track stops you getting into any sort of "rhythm" in contrast to a track
such as Zandvoort.Just one mistake on any of the 174 corners will cost you
several seconds - more on a fast section, this means that a 95% driving
style will probably pay off over a grand prix length race.

You never know though with the fast boys - maybe they can keep up 100% pace
and not make any mistakes!

- Michael (Best so far: 8:20.2)

Graeme Nas

GPL times...whats your take?

by Graeme Nas » Tue, 22 Dec 1998 04:00:00

Oops, I meant sub-eight-minute laps :-)

--
Graeme Nash


http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk

ICQ# 11257824

Matthias Fla

GPL times...whats your take?

by Matthias Fla » Wed, 23 Dec 1998 04:00:00


In reality, Jacky Ickx holds the record with a sub 8-min lap he drove
in 1969 (with wings, but on the original Ring).
After the track was made safer (and faster) in 1970/71, Niki Lauda did
the only sub 7 min lap ever, in practise for the 1976 German GP.

I'm quit esure that the 7 min barrier can not be broken within GPL (no
wings, old track layout) without any cheats (like track, grip or
performance editing).
--
   _____
 /_______\              .\\ a t t h e a d
I  XT /~~~~                    
I  500\_____       1977' Yamaha XT.Rex 500 Enduro
 \____/\__I_I      http://matthead.home.pages.de/

rob

GPL times...whats your take?

by rob » Wed, 23 Dec 1998 04:00:00

I agree completely.  I also think having a sim reflect accurate lap times is
more a matter of how the creators tune it rather than any direct
correlation between real life and the sim.  In other words, if you modeled
 the track and cars' weight, power, and traction 'by the numbers' as best
you could I don't think you'd find people were getting accurate lap times.
You then would have to go back and subjectively tune things like amounts
of traction and wind drag until it was "just right."

rob.


Graeme Nas

GPL times...whats your take?

by Graeme Nas » Wed, 23 Dec 1998 04:00:00

I'm now fairly sure it can be done, just through the practice that the
quickest guys will be doing in preparation for the upcoming race. Just
through practice alone I have taken 12s off my Nurburgring time with the
Ferrari, down from 8m27 to 8m15, and there's still another 2 or 3s to
come. With a Lotus, I reckon guys like Wolfgang et al could get down to
about 7m55.

Cheers!
--
Graeme Nash


http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk

ICQ# 11257824

DAVID J ROBINSO

GPL times...whats your take?

by DAVID J ROBINSO » Wed, 23 Dec 1998 04:00:00

That same year Lauda almost died at that track too.  He came back and
missed winning the World Championship by less then a point if i am correct.

Dave

Michae

GPL times...whats your take?

by Michae » Thu, 24 Dec 1998 04:00:00

I reckon it can be done, I've got a best of 8m20 in the Lotus , and that was
with a slow off track excursion at Bergwerk. I find that when you've had a
good first half of the lap, I tend to drive a bit too "safe" on the second
half so as not to throw it all away - do you do this?

If someone goes 100% all the way round I'm sure they could go sub 8 minute.

- Michael

Tadej Krev

GPL times...whats your take?

by Tadej Krev » Thu, 24 Dec 1998 04:00:00

Yeah,
  this Sasa guy is a friend of mine and I was quite shocked when he told me
that he's using a Sidewinder joystick to play GPL... ...it will be
interesting to see if he can pull it off on 174 corners
of Nuerburgring, because joysticks aren't as accurate as wheels....

Tadej Krevh


> >Just curious as to what some
> >other people think.
> I think sub-seven-minute laps are a possibility for the really quick
> guys out there like Wolfgang Woeger, Ian Lake, and now maybe Sasa
> Mencinger. They have been turning some amazing laps recently and I'm
> sure one if not all of them could do it. (I personally have never driven
> the Ring in anything other than a Ferrari and my PB now stands at 8m18).

> Cheers!
> --
> Graeme Nash


> http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk

> ICQ# 11257824

Schlom

GPL times...whats your take?

by Schlom » Thu, 24 Dec 1998 04:00:00

I go 100% all the way around.  I have to hit shift-R alot but i do it.

Best time so far is a 9:06 with the Eagle and thats with one shift-R and 2
spins.

John Walla

GPL times...whats your take?

by John Walla » Thu, 24 Dec 1998 04:00:00


>I agree completely.  I also think having a sim reflect accurate lap times is
>more a matter of how the creators tune it rather than any direct
>correlation between real life and the sim.  In other words, if you modeled
> the track and cars' weight, power, and traction 'by the numbers' as best
>you could I don't think you'd find people were getting accurate lap times.

You do to an extent, but although some sims are more complex than
others, none come close to modelling everything. For that reason
laptimes can never truly reflect real life without being "tweaked" to
do so.

Then too you have the fact that ;

a) We can practice much more than the real drivers could or did.
Jackie Stewart said he never drove one more lap around the Nurburgring
than he absolutely had to, and here we are having hotlap contests for
fun!

b) We need not be worried about killing ourselves, whereas the real
drivers always had to take a margin.

c) The times are tuned such that it is "possible" for you to run a
time similar to Jim Clark, since otherwise people would be upset with
the game. This is irrespective of how close your car performs to
Clark's or, more importantly, how is your talent relative to his.

You can see that given "parity of equipment" and "parity of talent" it
should always be possible for a sim driver to eclipse a real drivers
times, and this is underlined by the times being tuned to allow that.

Cheers!
John

Michae

GPL times...whats your take?

by Michae » Fri, 25 Dec 1998 04:00:00

Sounds like you're going 110% all the way round:-)

- Michael


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