rec.autos.simulators

http://www.racesimcentral.net/,6,0-3184,00.html

Snippet from Gamecenter review>>>
   .............. In a move that's bound to infuriate
hard-core sim enthusiasts just as surely as please the
majority of racers, Papyrus has  backed away from its promise
to base its latest NASCAR game on the authentic yet
oh-so-difficult Grand Prix Legends physics engine.
   Why? According to project director Dave Matson, "It was a
combination of factors, including the high system
requirements, the hardware-only graphics engine, and, to some
degree, the difficulty of the sim. We didn't want to leave the

majority of our fans behind."

   Instead, NASCAR 3 features a modified version of the NASCAR

2 engine, showing that underneath that big shell sits a true
race car, not the wheeled blimp of the past iterations. I, for

one, celebrate the improved maneuverability and driving
options, but it's a shame that the
tough but amazing Grand Prix Legends engine wasn't worked into

the mix.

<<<snippet end

That is a shame, I was looking forward to N3, but if they have

have traded realism for 'ease of playabillity' to satisfy
those people that can't be bothered to learn to drive it, I
probably won't bother....!  Oh well, at least we are lucky
enough to have GPL.

Dave Hawnt

...."If you finish 2nd, you are the first of the losers!"

The review was pretty accurate, though.

-Larry

N3 is basically an arcade game with extra adjustability built in..
only it's not that good as an arcade game either. It's certainly not
much in the genre of a sim..

____________________
Hydrogen and Stupidity.. The two most universal elements

Does it have GPL's physics?  No.  Neither does it let you magically recover
from a crash with Shift-R, slide along an Armco at high speeds with no
damage to actually *gain* speed, ignore pitstops entirely, etc. like a
certain other sim.  GPL has great physics, but has SEVERAL things which are
extremely unrealistic in simulating an actual '67 Grand Prix race.

The thing is, you're one of the people ***ing about Papy doing a NASCAR
sim in the first place - I remember posts rambling on about NasCrap,***
Trickle, and "real racing", how you're tired of rednecks, etc. ,etc. - I
have a strong feeling you don't have the first frigging clue about what goes
on in an actual NASCAR race, so should be quite unqualified to comment on a
sim based on the series.  You don't like NASCAR, don't understand NASCAR, so
more than likely won't get a NASCAR sim.  That after several tirades against
NASCAR and Papy doing a sim on said series, you still went out and bought
the game - why?  Only to trash it, pure and simple - from reading through
some of your posts pre-release there was no way you'd like the sim, even if
it was based on the GPL engine and made your coffee each morning.

Is it perfect?  No.  Will it be nice to have a NASCAR sim based on the GPL
engine at a playable framerate?  Sure, but that time certainly is in the
future.  Is N3 an arcade game?  Hardly.

--
Ken's Sig 3.0

"Who is the more foolish?  The fool, or the fool who follows him?" - Obi-Wan
Kenobi

Go #43 and #44!

volksy (at) geocities (dot) com
volksy (at) yahoo (dot) com

there were no such thing as pit stops in 67 except to fix the car. no gas,
no tires simply because there was no need. "rail riding" is a novice level
phenomenon. and shift-r is only allowed in the lower levels.

nascar 3 is just a purdy version of n2 which was a purdy version of etc.,
the pictures or SKINS just got better. why can't n3 accept more then 4
joystick buttons? because...(see last sentence). some people might enjoy
nascar3 and that is great for them, but it is an arcade racer. plain and
simple (game and reason). the short comings of n3 that exclude it from a
SIMULATOR or even a good arcade racing game are much to long to list, but a
short list is: do nascars have anti lock brakes? NO. why can you turn full
left and full right down the straights at full speed to no ill effect?. I
have never played n3 online so I am sure that I am missing some fun. I
logged many hours into n1 and do not want to play it anymore. I have played
true arcade racing games that were more accurate that n3, even the nascar or
stock car ones.

____________________
Hydrogen and Stupidity.. The two most universal elements

The sliding along the barriers without damage happens quite a lot.
Only perhaps one in 10 times might you actually lose the bumper and
that's the only damage unless you actually SLAM into the walls. Then
again we can always have those races where the host chooses to turn
off player damage altogether. Shift-R is not required for that one now
is it? Btw, no-player-damage races seem to account for about 20% of
those that I see online.  Ignore pitstops in GPL? Showing your lack of
knowledge here? There *WERE* no pitstops in the races back in the
'60's for anything other than fixing damage.  Refueling? No. Tire
changes? Why unless it was flat and even then the single knock off's
didn't save you much in the way of time.  While they are at it, try
the nice arcadish idea of cruising along flat-out down the straights
of Tally or any other track and crank the wheel from side to side and
nothing happens. It simply slowly changes lane from one side to the
other. Let's see Geoff Gordon try that one in reality and watch the
carnage.  Even better, on the road courses the cars don't even turn
and getting the rear end to come around on you requires a leap of
faith.  Where is all of that power going? Certainly not to the wheels!
The most realistic thing this arcade game offers is the sound of the
rattling metal within the chassis. That was done quite well and is a
great sound effect.  Outside of that, not much about it seems to be an
arcade.  Did you want to get into modifying the car? You can do that
in arcade's too.. and usually with more results between changes.

True, I do call it Nas***and even used to race (and win) under that
name when I held the game.  I got it since everyone was touting how
fantastic the online racing was.. it wasn't.  In fact it wasn't even a
challenge. Do I have no clue about Nascar? Hardly! Unfortunately the
more I learn about it the more I don't like it.  Btw, from the crew's
and owners mouths themselves this series is about as fixed as a
WWF/WCW event.. but I'll bet you love those too.

Funny, I don't recall having any pre-release comments on N3 since I
never started posting in this group until about the time it came out.
That is, I wasn't even IN this newsgroup until about the day it was
released.  Again, I bought the game looking for great online racing..
and online or off the racing sucked.  If it had good physics, good
racing, etc. I would forgo the hype and enjoy the game for what it
was. Unfortunately it doesn't.

It could be done if they wanted to do it unfortunately they opted to
offer a $50 per box Patch instead of a new game.  That is what this
game should have been marketted as; a downloadable patch that
increased the graphics to 1024x768 and offered some new sounds. After
all, that's what it ended up being didn't it?

Now maybe they will offer some patches to improve the online play,
variety of glitches, etc.  Oh.. are not many of those glitches the
identical ones from N2? Hmm.. yep, a patch this game is.

____________________
Hydrogen and Stupidity.. The two most universal elements

What is the AOE?  Btw, I also find SCGT to be more of an arcade game.
It's nearly impossible to put a foot wrong in that game unless you
just never hit the brakes at the end of a straight.. The new WSC game
that seems to be in the works looks VERY promising though we'll have
to see how much of what is advertised actually makes it to product.

____________________
Hydrogen and Stupidity.. The two most universal elements

-Larry

I would expect it to do more than meander from lane to lane when you
crank the wheel. In fact, this is so limiting that racing the road
courses is something of a joke.  It just doesn't do it very well at
all in my opinion.  It even brings to question the fun-value of racing
others on these venue's.

While I disagree as to whether or not N3 would qualify as a Sim I do
find your statements to be of high merit.  Not many people can get in
and enjoy wheel to wheel racing on GPL as some just lack the
talent/experiance/patience to make an honest go of it where virtually
anyone can turn in top-5 competitive laps in N3 (give or take being
knocked out in the first lap or two by anything from misaplication of
throttle to the constant warping which magically puts another car at a
dead stop in front of you.  Once underway, however, the wheel to wheel
racing can be rather fun as long as you find one of the few games
occupied by people who want to race instead of play bumper cars or
***.  That's the other major downside to N3.. the people playing it.
A good 40% of the games are occupied by people with a serious attitude
problem!  They totally freak out on anything and act like you are
insulting their manhood to be on the same track with them.  For that
the GPL crowd is inherintly much more mature from my own experiances.
I've only met about 3 people in GPL that were not fun to run against.

For the racing experiance in general N3 seems to be more fun to most
though when you find a good game in GPL with equally matched people
it's even more of a blast.  Lastly, with GPL when you win a race you
actually feel like you accomplished something.  With N3 it's just time
to go get another drink and win the next one.

____________________
Hydrogen and Stupidity.. The two most universal elements

The 93 Cavalier wan't much different than the 92 Cavalier, and GM didn't have to put
out Advisory Bulletins to "warn" consumers.

With so much dud software out these days, I never buy anything until I see it
1) Previewd
2) Reviewed
3) ***ed about/Praised by actual users/players.

If you choose to leap without looking, that's your choice.
If people just can't wait that bad, and buy something sight unseen before the ship date, that's
asking for trouble.

I'd love to make it back to C***te someday...

Oops, going off topic - sorry.

Cheers

Mark
Reading, UK

Hey, that's me!  Well, haven't actually won a championship, but I've
just started my second season at Grand Prix level.  First season was
pretty appauling race wise.  Despite getting pole in 10 out of 11 races
I failed to finish any of them. :-(

Mind you I've just completed Kyalami in a new championship finishing
first, 2 seconds ahead of Jim Clarke.  I should have won by a country
mile but spun out twice, fortunately avoiding doing any damage though.
Got passed him on the penultimate lap when he got held up trying to lap
Surtees and took a ridiculous line through one of the corners - don't
remember which - in an idiotic overtaking attempt.

Just finished qualifying at Monaco and am on pole again. :-)  Maybe this
season...

Truth is, I'm sure there are others, though I may be one of a small,
exclusive club who enjoying playing offline this way.

By the way, bought and played N2 to death and will be buying N3 when it
appears here in the UK.
--
Peter Ives

Where have you been all that time? Have you read previews about the
game? How about comments from people in this newsgroup who played a beta
version? You're quick to point out: "advertised. I hear people say that
all the time" but you're blind when it comes to comments regarding the
game. Everybody kwew the game would use the N2 engine, not the GPL
engine. Papy doesn't have to mention it on the box. If you're in this
newsgroup, we have been bombarded to death with post about this in the
past 6 months... Wow. Maybe Papyrus didn't "advertise" it directly, but
for God's sake, don't tell me you didn't know this.

Bottom line is, do you like the game or not? Did you like N2 or not?
Would you buy an upgrade or not? EA Sports comes out with a new version
of NHL hockey every single year and don't tell me they improve gameplay
that much from year to year. That's right: graphic improvements mostly.

 ____________________

Need I say more?

Philster