rec.autos.simulators

N3 Game or sim?

Philste

N3 Game or sim?

by Philste » Tue, 28 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Well, if you're not sure if you're going to buy a game or not, you
should wait to have some feedback from: a)newsgroups b)friends or people
you know c)web sites d)computer game magazines. That being said, and the
fact that you were able to find this newsgroup, I would assume you know
your way around the internet. That assumption made, I would think that
you would have the time to at least find info about the game before
buying it. That being said, I don't understand why you complain. So you
bought a product you don't like. A matter of opinion. But you can't say
it's because nobody "warned" you. "Warning signs" where everywhere (no,
before you reply saying "everywhere? Like on the Net or in this
newsgroup?", just go at www.papy.com and read info from THEIR forum).

As to the definition of everybody: everybody reading post about this N3
in this newsgroup would know about this (that's one group; other
resourcefull gamers would have gone to sites like
www.operationsports.com or www.simracingnews.com). Sometimes I wonder if
you only say things to look ignorant for argument sake. I suppose you're
one of those who always like to be right... but I digress.

I guess we have different opinions about the game. That's all.

As for reading your MESSAGE, I read all your post in this thread and
don't remember seeing anything mentionning you were new here. sorry.

Philster

Philste

N3 Game or sim?

by Philste » Tue, 28 Sep 1999 04:00:00

For the racing experiance in general N3 seems to be more fun to most

Have you ever raced on TEN (before it disappeared)? Competition was very
good in leagues and you felt good about winning races. You had to work
hard to finish in the top 5.

It would be fun to try a race against you online. We could try fixed
setup. Maybe you need to race against more serious racers. I agree with
your statement: a large group of people racing N3 online have no manners
whatsoever. I really sux sometimes. Pick up races are just as bad as on
TEN. But I wouldn't dismiss N3 quickly.

I think it simulates well NASCAR races. That's close enough for me.
Certainly better than NASCAR Revolution.

Philster

Rexv

N3 Game or sim?

by Rexv » Wed, 29 Sep 1999 04:00:00

On Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:56:46 -0400, Philster

Mild note: Try READING THE MESSAGE!!  As it said I didn't come into
this newsgroup until the day before it hit the shelves hence I didn't
have 6 months of bombardment about the messages. I must also assume
that based on the # of posts versus the number of anticipated copies
to be sold some 99%+ of potential buyers have also never been in here
and at least 90% of those buyers have not bothered to pick up a
game-oriented magazine.  To these people this game should be a much
improved and as modern as possible piece of software instead of a
$50.00 patch on a CD.  Did I know it was a patch until I came in here?
No.  In fact, I didn't even know it was due out like the vast majority
of other people.  Heck, 95% of the populace didn't even know that
Dreamcast existed much less had shipped until the 6 O'clock news went
nuts over sales.  Not everyone lives and breathes newsgroups and the
information on it and most of those people are not reading the
magazines either.  Some people in newsgroups tend to forget they are
amoung the select few that actually know what these are, where they
are, and how to access them.  Out of the 38,000+ newsgroups I only
recently found this one myself.

You say "Everybody knew the game would use the N2 engine". Who is
everybody? Everybody in the newsgroup or everybody interested in
buying the game?  There is a world outside of the newsgroup you know.

____________________
Hydrogen and Stupidity.. The two most universal elements

Rexv

N3 Game or sim?

by Rexv » Wed, 29 Sep 1999 04:00:00

On Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:37:36 -0400, Philster


>For the racing experiance in general N3 seems to be more fun to most
>> though when you find a good game in GPL with equally matched people
>> it's even more of a blast.  Lastly, with GPL when you win a race you
>> actually feel like you accomplished something.  With N3 it's just time
>> to go get another drink and win the next one.

>Have you ever raced on TEN (before it disappeared)? Competition was very
>good in leagues and you felt good about winning races. You had to work
>hard to finish in the top 5.

No I never raced on TEN.  I never raced N2 online at all and only
played the game a handful of times at a friends place.  I can imagine
that in leagues (both in GPL and N3) the competition is a bit more
fierce than the average pick-up game and having to work that much
harder to win is what brings that sense of accomplishment.

Had I bothered to keep the game (it just wasn't worth the money to me)
I would be most happy to take you up on it.  I did end up running a
few goodr aces before I returned it but with all of the crashes and
glitches and such there were just too many headaches involved for the
very few good experiances with the game.  Obviously by the number of
posts begging for help and fixes I am not the only one who suffered
from these numerous problems.  Perhaps N4 will address them.

It isn't the game itself that makes the people twits, it's the twits
that make themselves twits.  I have played many games with mature
people out to just have fun yet who were very competitive and these
games were a total blast (including the few N3 games that did run
flawlessly). Unfortunately these were a small percentage compared to
those with severe attitude problems that sadly thought it their duty
to use every obscenity in the book for what was more often than not
their own mistakes.

I have never played/seen Nascar Revolution beyond the box on the shelf
so I will defer comment on this to someone who has played it.  For N3,
when it works it does a decent job (though not spectacular) of putting
a bunch of people in a tight group (what others cream is missing from
GPL and I agree that most of the GPL races don't end up in tight
packs).  That tight group tends to be a heck of a lot of fun for
everyone in it as does finding a good and consistent draft partner.
Someone else put it very well in that GPL is a sim for enthusiasts
while N3 is a game for racers.

____________________
Hydrogen and Stupidity.. The two most universal elements

Rexv

N3 Game or sim?

by Rexv » Wed, 29 Sep 1999 04:00:00

On Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:29:00 -0400, Philster


>Well, if you're not sure if you're going to buy a game or not, you
>should wait to have some feedback from: a)newsgroups b)friends or people
>you know c)web sites d)computer game magazines. That being said, and the
>fact that you were able to find this newsgroup, I would assume you know
>your way around the internet. That assumption made, I would think that
>you would have the time to at least find info about the game before
>buying it.

Hmm. I tend to be the first one in my group of friends to buy
something, especially software (at that I'm one of the few in my group
to actually buy it instead of pirate it).  I don't spend hours on end
reading consumers reports guide to video games nor researching each
purchase 6 days ahead of time.  I'm pretty sure that most people don't
do that much research on a mere $50 product.  I do spend a lot of time
doing research on the internet though it's for stock purchases, real
estate deals, etc.  These are far more time consuming and important to
me for my line of work than sitting on the computer looking for
potential information from people who have generally no more knowledge
of the product than anyone else and are only speculating what is and
is not going to be in the product.  You may wish to consider that for
the majority of buyers the decision on which software to buy is done
as a POP (or Point of Purchase) sale where they know they want
something new but have no idea what they want to buy. They may not
even be looking to buy something but a fancy box catches their eye.
There are not that many people who sat back for 6+ months anticipating
with beads of sweat on their brow the release of N3 or any other
software save for a select few.  Try taking a course or two in
Marketting and Advertising if you are interested in the statistical
data.  It also has a great insight as to the average amount of
research done by an average buyer prior to purchasing items by general
price breakdowns. Unfortunately much of this information is in need of
revision now that the Net is a source of buyers information that
wasn't as popular or available as it was when most of the Marketting
courses were first designed and their subsequent books put into print.

Again, what good is going to a Papyrus sight to look up things that
might tell me I will NOT want the game? It is not in their best
interest to trounce their own game on the net.  Would you expect to
see a Chevrolet ad that reads "All new Corvette, some new construction
techniques, but it still has some rattles, still has some squeaks, has
a few problems here and there but it costs more?"  Again, having just
found this newsgroup I wasn't aware of the variety of sites out there
for racers and many of those that do crop up are fly-by-nighters from
people who like a game but are far from unbiased about it.  For all of
those people who dont' even know this group exists much less the
websites who is to warn them of the flaws in N3 and GPL, and SCGT,
etc.?

I don't see how pointing out that not everyone in the world reads this
newsgroup nor researches a purchase of a mere $50 video game until
they are blue in the teeth is ignorant. Would you mind explaining that
to me?  The prime target audience for a video game (at least in the
US) is 18-50 years old. Most people over 50 are not interested in
computers and generally not interested in video games. Most people
under 18 can't afford them without their parents help.  These people
typically work 40 hour weeks and or go to college which leaves them
little time for spending hours upon hours of research for a game.
They would typically rather be playing a game, shopping at the mall
and reading the variety of boxes, go outside and play sports, or sit
on the computer doing other things.

Different opinions are good. If everyone thought the same we'd be one
boring group of people!  I do apologize for the Sherlock comment as I
was in a rather off mood before I even logged in. It was uncalled for.

I'm not new to newsgroups in general, just to this particular one.
For whatever reason it was missed when I was sorting through some
36-38,000+ trying to find those worth reading.  Since I have been here
I have learned a few things, many constructive, a few less than
useful, some rather annoying, etc.  For the most part this place seems
as divided as a civil war over a pair of games form the same maker.
That we have a pair of games that are interesting enough to generate
the sheer number of comments, thoughts, posts, and emmotions speaks
volumes about the diversity of the groups of people in here. Obviously
we won't all agree on everything.

Who knows, if they manage to get some of the bugs addressed (though I
understand that most of them are carryovers from N2 that were never
fixed) I would repurchase the game and be happy to take you up on your
race. Until then I'd rather stick with other games and wait until a
better version comes along.

____________________
Hydrogen and Stupidity.. The two most universal elements

Eldre

N3 Game or sim?

by Eldre » Thu, 30 Sep 1999 04:00:00



>Hey, that's me!  Well, haven't actually won a championship, but I've
>just started my second season at Grand Prix level.  First season was
>pretty appauling race wise.  Despite getting pole in 10 out of 11 races
>I failed to finish any of them. :-(

Pole?!?  I'm lucky to qualify in the top 15...<g>

__
Own Grand Prix Legends?  Goto  http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc

If all the world's a stage, where is the audience sitting?
remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Joel Willstei

N3 Game or sim?

by Joel Willstei » Thu, 30 Sep 1999 04:00:00


>On Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:56:46 -0400, Philster
>Mild note: Try READING THE MESSAGE!!  As it said I didn't come into
>this newsgroup until the day before it hit the shelves hence I didn't
>have 6 months of bombardment about the messages. I must also assume
>that based on the # of posts versus the number of anticipated copies
>to be sold some 99%+ of potential buyers have also never been in here
>and at least 90% of those buyers have not bothered to pick up a
>game-oriented magazine....
>....You say "Everybody knew the game would use the N2 engine". Who is
>everybody? Everybody in the newsgroup or everybody interested in
>buying the game?  There is a world outside of the newsgroup you know.

     Your point about not knowing that Nascar3 wouldn't be using the GPL
physics since you only just discovered this newsgroup,still doesn't hold
water. Like most of us,we only report what we have read,or experienced 1st
hand. Most of our information comes from reading the individual sites,and
there are tons of great sites.

Joel Willstein

Michael E. Carve

N3 Game or sim?

by Michael E. Carve » Thu, 30 Sep 1999 04:00:00


% > Does it have GPL's physics?  No.  Neither does it let you magically recover
% > from a crash with Shift-R, slide along an Armco at high speeds with no
% > damage to actually *gain* speed, ignore pitstops entirely, etc. like a
% > certain other sim.  GPL has great physics, but has SEVERAL things which are
% > extremely unrealistic in simulating an actual '67 Grand Prix race.

% The lack of pitstops?  There's a reason that they put as much fuel into
% those cars as they could carry for a full race.  Pitstops were not that
% common.

Well, not really true.... Pitstops were quite common in 1967 Grand Prix
races, they just weren't "planned" pitstops.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=


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