rec.autos.simulators

I can't find this wheel in any local stores or any of my favorite
online stores.  I can't even find it at Logitech's website.  I really
liked the demo model I tried at Best Buy and was hoping I could pick
one up.

As an aside, I tried the MSFF but didn't like it for the framerate hit
it incurred.  I tried the LWFF next and didn't like it because it felt
so damn clunky and notchy.  I'm really not in the mood to roll the dice
again to see if I can get a smoother LWFF.  Ironically, I chose the MSFF
first because I didn't like the cheesy LWFF pedals.  It turned out that
the LWFF pedals were much better than the MSFF pedals.  The MSFF pedals
had a very noticible deadzone that I just could not get rid of - the
Logitech pedals were very responsive.  These pedals combined with the
great paddle shifters and low-CPU hit of the LWFF could've made this one
a keeper if not for the unbearable sticking and notching I felt.  There
were times where I honestly couldn't tell if I was experiencing a wheel
notch/snag or a force feedback effect. :(

So, I'm looking for a decent non-FF wheel at the moment.  If I can't find
the yellow Logitech anywhere, I will probably go with the MS non-FF wheel.

John

Check out shopper.com or ibuyer.net.  They show some places still stocking
the Wingman Formula.  Better yet, you might want to wait a couple of weeks
and try Logitech's new wheels, the Formula GP or Formula Force GP.  They're
due out in mid-July and  "look" like improved versions of both Logitech
wheels, at much lower prices.  We'll have to wait and see if they've cut
corners to hit the new price points, so be sure to buy from a retailer who
offers a good return policy.  You can check out http://www.joy-stick.net/
for a peek at these new wheels.

Cheers,

Steve B.

If I was you I would still try the ff model. It is becoming a great asset
and nowadays helps driving. I  have the Ferrari force feedback and find it
great!

--
Kieran

www.computers4sure.com has some of the lowest prices I seen

If you don't mind not having a yellow color wheel, the original black logi
is at computer geeks for about $30.

The new logi wheels have changed the one thing that I really like about the
it, the style of the wheel itself.

--
Slot

www.slottweak.com
Tweaks & Reviews

Thanks for the info, Steve.  I'm pretty skeptical about the new Logitech
wheels though.  Logitech seems to be having some quality control problems
with their current LWFF (from what I've read on r.a.s.) and the new stuff
is even cheaper.

Another disappointment is the fact that the non-FF wheel uses a 15-pin
gameport and not USB.  Didn't the old yellow Logitech use a serial/USB
interface?

Thanks,

John

: Check out shopper.com or ibuyer.net.  They show some places still stocking
: the Wingman Formula.  Better yet, you might want to wait a couple of weeks
: and try Logitech's new wheels, the Formula GP or Formula Force GP.  They're
: due out in mid-July and  "look" like improved versions of both Logitech
: wheels, at much lower prices.  We'll have to wait and see if they've cut
: corners to hit the new price points, so be sure to buy from a retailer who
: offers a good return policy.  You can check out http://www.joy-stick.net/
: for a peek at these new wheels.

: Cheers,

: Steve B.

:> I can't find this wheel in any local stores or any of my favorite
:> online stores.  I can't even find it at Logitech's website.  I really
:> liked the demo model I tried at Best Buy and was hoping I could pick
:> one up.

Well I did just that because I thought the wheel was THAT good.
I went to several Best Buy's and finially got a brand new unopened
wheel. IMHO that is what you ran into. You have to make sure your
wheel had not been opened. The Best Buy near my house had 6
LWFF wheels all opened/returned. You can tell because the tape
which seals the box is clear and they try to put more clear tape
over the original tape. You should have heard me reaming the
manager for reselling opened products.

From what I have experiences, if you get a real unopened unit
there is an 80%-90% chance it will be cool. Many times they
get notchyfrom abuse. People that complain about *NEW*
units which are notchy, probably had preowned wheels that
the store or company had repackaged.

--

www.compgeeks.com have the yellow logitech wheel.

Dolle Dolf

:> I can't find this wheel in any local stores or any of my favorite
:> online stores.  I can't even find it at Logitech's website.  I really
:> liked the demo model I tried at Best Buy and was hoping I could pick
:> one up.
:>
:> As an aside, I tried the MSFF but didn't like it for the framerate hit
:> it incurred.  I tried the LWFF next and didn't like it because it felt
:> so damn clunky and notchy.  I'm really not in the mood to roll the dice
:> again to see if I can get a smoother LWFF.  Ironically, I chose the MSFF

: Well I did just that because I thought the wheel was THAT good.
: I went to several Best Buy's and finially got a brand new unopened
: wheel. IMHO that is what you ran into. You have to make sure your
: wheel had not been opened. The Best Buy near my house had 6
: LWFF wheels all opened/returned. You can tell because the tape
: which seals the box is clear and they try to put more clear tape
: over the original tape. You should have heard me reaming the
: manager for reselling opened products.

: From what I have experiences, if you get a real unopened unit
: there is an 80%-90% chance it will be cool. Many times they
: get notchyfrom abuse. People that complain about *NEW*
: units which are notchy, probably had preowned wheels that
: the store or company had repackaged.

I ordered my LWFF from buy.com and it looks like it was drop shipped
directly from Logitech.  The shipping box had Logitech markings all over
it - not the typical buy.com box.  And the box and contents appeared to
be factory sealed.  Like you, this is something I usually check pretty
carefully.

Oh well, I'm having fun with my MS non-FF wheel right now and it serves
me well for the kind of stuff I'm playing.

Thanks Greg,

John

Greg,
my one was unopened *and* notchy.
IMO it could be a good move to take an opened box, but checking carefully. I
guess a lot of wheels are returned because of squeeking, which is almost normal
for the Logi. Or the previous buyer opened all boxed to choose the best one.
Things to check when buying an opened box:
Everything in?
Spindle bent (notchy)?
anything else?

Jens

---------------------------------------------

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JensSchumi homepage at http://members.xoom.com/JensSchu/
Racing simulation, esp. GPL
Logitech Wingman FF optimization
Classic cars, esp. Morris Minor
Radio controlled airplanes

my 1st LWFF was new and unopened, and the wheel was fine - nice and
smooth, but the pedals were faulty, which i tracked down to a bad
poti.

I took the lot back and replaced with annothe brand new unopened one.

the pedals on this one worked but the wheel was very notchy.
i took it apart, and discovered that the notchiness is caused by the
force feedback motor shaft having been installed squint - not likely
to happen through abuse!!!

i went back to the shop again the next day and the guy let me have the
wheel from one and the pedals from the other :-)

Now everything is fine.

The real problem is the design of the wheel - probably why it has been
changed - they're scrapping the cable drive FF
the motor shaft only has to be very slightly squint to cause the
notchiness - so you need really good quality control.

bummer really, coz when it works its a great wheel - and the (diy
modified) pedals are fine also.

the cable drive gives a crisper less spongy feedback than the ferrari
wheel my friend has - the ferrari is good, with nice strong feedback,
it just feels more synthetic than the logitech.

col