rec.autos.simulators

Wosco

PS If you cant find any way to flame me for what i just said then here is
somethign you can take a crack at...One thing that gets me mad is how people
treat the cars like the lotii and brabham and all almost like a training
thing.  People say, in a week i think ill be able to "graduate" or "move up"
into the lotus from the coventry or something.  Its like everyone wants to
drive that fast car and it makes me sick how 7 cars were put into the game
but a lot of people are trying to make it into 1 car.  I think that a great
patch for GPL would be something to even out the cars or make it where the
lotus isnt so *** in speed.  Maybe something that makes it more
unreliable (seeing how many lotii still finish races when in 67 they had
many problems has to show something).  I for one drive a brabham and my
quest is to get down into the lotii times with it so its reliability will
prevail in the races.  So far the reliability hasnt helped me at all.  No
time has the person i was following or chasing (being a lotus most of the
time in online races) fallen out of a race and handed over the position to
me.  They always seem to finish decently.  OoOPS, kinda long PS huh.  My
best time at monza in a brabham is 1:29.2 (not speed shifting or rail riding
or anything) so im gradually getting down there.
my .000002 so if you want to counter anything i said then go right ahaid.

Yeah I think you're right!  At least the thoughts I've quoted you on.  Sure
folks can circulate the tracks and improve their times but few are gonna achive
the superhuman performances the real drivers did, are they?  If it was easy to
be S. Moss everyone would be driving F1!  We are seeing some GPL super sim
drivers whose performance trancends hardware optimums.  Meantime, I'm diggin'
the immersion!

As for evening out the cars, let's not!  The Lotus started achiving the right
balance of power, weigth and handling in '67 tthat made it a clear winner for a
while.  The Brab was an interim car whose light weight and small size made it
different that its competitors.  The Ferrari, well it was red of course.
Cooper and Honda won races in this period, but maybe the driver and luck
deserve the credit more than nameplates.  Or maybe not...

tony

Ben

First, I want to thank David Fisher for the inspiration for my subject line.
Thanks David! ;-)

I was ruminating last evening about the "play value" of GPL (for lack of a
better phrase) and wanted to wade in with a thought or two.  

This morning I read the following opinion, snipped from a post I otherwise
agree with in some respects ...

writes:

I, for one, think this is a terrible idea.  To me, one of the most brilliant
aspects of GPL is the distinctly different cars -- and I think that quality
will keep lots of people coming back to GPL after N3 and the next, great
modern-day F1 game (whatever that may be) show up.

The individual character of the cars in GPL has kept me fascinated and
challenged for two and a half months now.  Like many, I jumped into the Lotus
first.  I discovered a few weeks later that I could manage the Eagle more
easily, and went about breaking all my best Lotus laps with the Eagle.  Several
weeks later, I discovered Alison's set-ups for the Coventry, found myself
instantly more comfortable in it on many tracks, and proceeded to break many of
 my best lap times again.  Now, about a month later, with all of that
additional "seat time," I've gone back to the Lotus and set out to break all of
my best laps.  I discovered that the Lotus helped me to SHATTER a few, but some
of my Coventry and Eagle times were very difficult to beat by more than a
couple of hundredths.  But it was a hell of a lot of fun trying!

In this newsgroup, we hear from many who jumped into the Lotus, got into racing
on-line and have been having a ball ever since.  There are others who are
thrilled at getting under 1:40 at the Glen in trainer cars.  And me, I switch
back and forth between the three I've mentioned and the Ferrari just to sample
the challenges, differences, and (dare I say this?) delights each presents.

No other racing sim has given me that level of challenge and variety.  I love
it, and I expect I'm not the only one out there.  (Then again, I could be.)

I don't have podium finishes or world-class lap times.  But I'll whip anyone
out there who says he's having more FUN than me.

(Sniff, sniff, wipes away several tears.)

Thanks again, Papyrus!

Pinebox

Ok not really but it is built in that you will get smoked by the best 15 or
so drivers. Its the Global hype scaling. Clark is set to .050 or something
like that. That number is used as a relation to your best speed at any
track. With my best laps at Kylami that means he's doing 1:22s. Consequently
he spends alot of time running my sorry ***over.

To make a long post short (I know, too late). If you're frustrated, try
editing the driver.ini file. Set the global hype scaling to 0.750 for the
best driver and start adding for everyone else. Put some over 1.000. No this
won't make you faster but you'll FEEL faster. What this sorta does is make
your speed the "middle of the pack speed". It does let you learn the tracks
without gettng run over and have more fun.

Just an idea,
Tony

I haven't raced the AI in a long time.  I simply prefer online
competition.  In the last week, I've concentrated almost completely on
Mexico, and have improved my time from 1:56 to 1:50 through nothing more
than "practice".  Sure, I've tweaked my setup hear and there, but there's
NO replacement for turning laps. I've pretty much stopped guaging my
ability to compete by comparing lap times since it's almost impossible
for most folks to complete a lap at ANY of the tracks without at least
one or two excursions into the grandstands for beer.

When I first got GPL, I drove all of the cars at least once.  I picked
the car (Eagle) that felt the best to me, and started driving it - I
didn't "graduate" or "move up" to the car.  I decided that's the car I
felt the most comfortable in.  I was blowing motors right and left when I
first got into the car, and I still do on occasion, but overall, I'd say
the Eagle has been good to me, as I'm seeing a lot more podium finishes
than i did at the beginning.  I've managed what I consider to be some
fairly decent times at ALL of the tracks, and for the most part, those
times were NOT hotlaps, but were part of practice for a race, or a race
itself.  

I've run a few GP races offline and have finished about 3/4 of each event
before becoming a victim of some AI stupidity or an out-and-out loss of
concetration on my part.  Lots of cars drop out of an online race for
whatever reason, but I've only seen one human driver blow up his Lotus'
engine during a race.

Someone suggested that Papy should level the playing field a little
better so that the Lotus isn't the be-all end-all of cars in the sim.  
Well, they can't really do that because the cars physics are the car's
physics.  At some point, you have to let the outcome of a race rest in
the ability (or inability) of each driver.  I think a better idea would
be to limit the number of each chassis in a given race.  Too many times,
I've run an online race where there were as many as 10 Lotii in a field
of 12-15 cars. Granted, not all of them could make the car perform to
it's full potential, but the mere fact that fully 2/3 or more of the
field were green cars with yellow stripes is a little disturbing to
anyone driving a different marque.

For this very reason, the league I'm running has a restriction as far as
the number of any single marque that can be used.  Originally, I was
going to restrict it to a max of three of each car so that we got a
decent mix of cars, but I backed off and bumped it up to a max of four.
When you have a limited field due to connection requirements, this can
still make for a very lop-sided field.  I ended up with 4 eagles, 4
lotus, 4 ferrari, 3 covingtons and a Brabham.  Notice any missing from
the list?  Two of the chassis types aren't even represented.  The problem
with chassis restricted leagues is you have to wonder how many people are
actually going to join the league when there's a possibility that they
won't get their preferred chassis.

In the end, we should all encourage people like Allison Hine to continue
their efforts towards "finding speed" in what have become widely regarded
as the "slugs of GPL."  If enough respect can be generated for these
bastard children of the sim, we may more often see someone powering by an
Eagle or Lotus driver in longer races, leaving the "fast" cars picking
their way gingerly around the track hoping the don't pop the motor all
over creation.

--
=========================================================
John Simmons - Redneck Techno-Biker (Zerex12)
http://www.members.home.net/jms1/index.html

John Simmons - Barbarian Diecast Collector
http://members.home.net/jsimm/diecast_index.html

IGPS Director
http://members.home.net/jms1/igps.html

If you want to send me email, go to either of the URL's
shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
=========================================================

I haven't raced the AI in a long time.  I simply prefer online
competition.  In the last week, I've concentrated almost completely on
Mexico, and have improved my time from 1:56 to 1:50 through nothing more
than "practice".  Sure, I've tweaked my setup hear and there, but there's
NO replacement for turning laps. I've pretty much stopped guaging my
ability to compete by comparing lap times since it's almost impossible
for most folks to complete a lap at ANY of the tracks without at least
one or two excursions into the grandstands for beer.

When I first got GPL, I drove all of the cars at least once.  I picked
the car (Eagle) that felt the best to me, and started driving it - I
didn't "graduate" or "move up" to the car.  I decided that's the car I
felt the most comfortable in.  I was blowing motors right and left when I
first got into the car, and I still do on occasion, but overall, I'd say
the Eagle has been good to me, as I'm seeing a lot more podium finishes
than i did at the beginning.  I've managed what I consider to be some
fairly decent times at ALL of the tracks, and for the most part, those
times were NOT hotlaps, but were part of practice for a race, or a race
itself.  

I've run a few GP races offline and have finished about 3/4 of each event
before becoming a victim of some AI stupidity or an out-and-out loss of
concetration on my part.  Lots of cars drop out of an online race for
whatever reason, but I've only seen one human driver blow up his Lotus'
engine during a race.

Someone suggested that Papy should level the playing field a little
better so that the Lotus isn't the be-all end-all of cars in the sim.  
Well, they can't really do that because the cars physics are the car's
physics.  At some point, you have to let the outcome of a race rest in
the ability (or inability) of each driver.  I think a better idea would
be to limit the number of each chassis in a given race.  Too many times,
I've run an online race where there were as many as 10 Lotii in a field
of 12-15 cars. Granted, not all of them could make the car perform to
it's full potential, but the mere fact that fully 2/3 or more of the
field were green cars with yellow stripes is a little disturbing to
anyone driving a different marque.

For this very reason, the league I'm running has a restriction as far as
the number of any single marque that can be used.  Originally, I was
going to restrict it to a max of three of each car so that we got a
decent mix of cars, but I backed off and bumped it up to a max of four.
When you have a limited field due to connection requirements, this can
still make for a very lop-sided field.  I ended up with 4 eagles, 4
lotus, 4 ferrari, 3 covingtons and a Brabham.  Notice any missing from
the list?  Two of the chassis types aren't even represented.  The problem
with chassis restricted leagues is you have to wonder how many people are
actually going to join the league when there's a possibility that they
won't get their preferred chassis.

In the end, we should all encourage people like Allison Hine to continue
their efforts towards "finding speed" in what have become widely regarded
as the "slugs of GPL."  If enough respect can be generated for these
bastard children of the sim, we may more often see someone powering by an
Eagle or Lotus driver in longer races, leaving the "fast" cars picking
their way gingerly around the track hoping the don't pop the motor all
over creation.

--
=========================================================
John Simmons - Redneck Techno-Biker (Zerex12)
http://www.members.home.net/jms1/index.html

John Simmons - Barbarian Diecast Collector
http://members.home.net/jsimm/diecast_index.html

IGPS Director
http://members.home.net/jms1/igps.html

If you want to send me email, go to either of the URL's
shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
=========================================================

We've been doing the same thing then! I've been exclusively driving
Mexico for around 3 days now in preparation for your league :-) I've got
my Ferrari fairly dialled in now, and can run consistent 1m50's, with a
best of 1m49.7 - so here's hoping for a good race next week!

I'm with you on this too - I'd been spending most of my GPL time doing
hotlaps in the Lotus but after driving the Ferrari and toying with the
Eagle I never want to go back. Hotlapping now means nothing as far as
I'm concerned - give me racing! I can't imagine what's going to happen
to my social life when I get my cable modem next year....

Cheers!
--
Graeme Nash

http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk

ICQ# 11257824

than you is a great learning tool.

buzard

I highly advocate this approach to folks if you're finding it too
hard.  I was significantly discouraged at first with my inability
to "race" with any of the drivers.  I used Allison Hines' notes
on her web page to chage the NPT_* values to slow everyone down
to my speed.  I use the override, and use an npt of 1.25, and
it's a blast.  

It's still a great challenge, and so much more fun to race close
and have an outside chance at a top 5 finish if you keep any car
on the track at reasonable speed for a 9 lapper.  Also, if you
plan to race online in the future, you need to get practice
racing close w/other cars.  This is the way to do that.  As I get
better (if I get better? :)), I lower the override value.

Those Lotii ain't that fast now :).  Have fun!

-=Hammer
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